Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Worstluck

No offense meant, but why does a game have to be about facts?  Video games are supposed to be fun.  If you enjoy great, if you don't no big deal, there are many to choose from.  There is no factual arguement about what is fun to a person.

This discussion is not about whether person X is having fun in MO or not. It's about what someone can expect from MO today. Some people say you can expect something similar to UO or EVE, which is simply false.

So yeah, facts are relevant when you compare different games and say they're similar. In this case, MO fans are trying to make MO look better by likening it to UO, which is easily proven to be b.s. by comparing the two games using facts instead of personal opinions. 

Of course people are free to enjoy whatever games they like, but that's not the same as making false claims.

Yes, but if you think of a game like a piece of art, like a movie, everything is subjective.  The only facts that really matter are numbers and the like, or who developed the game, real concrete things.  Fact is, only a few thousand people at most enjoy MO, we know this.  I don't think anyone is going to deny it, except the delusional.  Starvault developed and is managing the game, definitely a fact.  You can talk about features and compare them on paper, say UO has this, MO does not and vice versa.  It's tough though because every game will be different, and the features they have will interact with each other differently.

And since you mentioned expectations, that is not fact in the least.  Everyone will have different experiences.  That is all subjective.  I can say that playing MO will be like playing UO or Eve, because maybe there were to me.  Not saying they were comparable, just hypothetically.

Btw, this discusion began when a person asked what to expect when returning to a game.  Some people offered their advice.  The discussion was never about what is fact, or how terrible this game is comparison to other games. 

Originally posted by xDayx
Pet pathing isnt that bad. It's no AAA themepark pathing,that's for sure. But I fail to see how this is game breaking. You need to lead your pet over mountains. Pet commands aren't a bug. Neither is riding and shiething your sword. Stacking items sux I will give you that, I don't get stuck on pebbles maybe your jumping skill wasn't high enough for some rocks. I havent seen mobs warp like they used to. You will see mobs run back to spawn point occasionally but I see that in AAA games also. Glitching into palisades I will also give you ...unexcusible. Same with dupes. Node lines seem much better after last patch, load time is way better than say vanguard and if I remember eve correctly your load times for this were at least 10 seconds into a different sector. Shield crash is also unexcusible. Your hatred for MO is almost comical though. A lot of people just let it go. Not sure why you can't . When I quit a game if I really feel compelled to , I post on the official forums directed mainly to the devs and let them know why, then I move on. I never said MO is perfect, far from it. I think the game is immersive as all hell and love the realism and so I play. If I do quit it will be because of exploiters and cheaters who aren't punished and the fact that exploits are in the game. Then I what give my opinion of the official forums and not look back. And I won't reload into it until the reason why I left is cleared up if I do at all. So this begs the question... Whats the motivation? Is it strictly a desire to forum pvp? Because I will be happy to accommodate you and the others.

It seems like you really aren't aware of the bugs.

Pet pathing isn't bad unless you go up a mountain.  As you crest a hill your pet often turns and bolts 3 miles in the wrong direction. 

The pet location for the pet owner is almost always different from where the pet is for other people.

 Pets often warp through objects like the stairs in Morin Khur.

When you first mount a horse the stam bar display is broken.

Horses now have sticky feet when going down a hill so you have to spam 'p' to move or call a gm.

Mobs are still warping, just fight anything from a pig to a risar and you will see the mob warp through you every time you take a step backwards.

When you switch weapons you get combat mode speed without being in combat mode.

I am not even scratching the surface here with the amount of bugs in Mortal...

Originally posted by psykobilly

Originally posted by xDayx
Pet pathing isnt that bad. It's no AAA themepark pathing,that's for sure. But I fail to see how this is game breaking. You need to lead your pet over mountains. Pet commands aren't a bug. Neither is riding and shiething your sword. Stacking items sux I will give you that, I don't get stuck on pebbles maybe your jumping skill wasn't high enough for some rocks. I havent seen mobs warp like they used to. You will see mobs run back to spawn point occasionally but I see that in AAA games also. Glitching into palisades I will also give you ...unexcusible. Same with dupes. Node lines seem much better after last patch, load time is way better than say vanguard and if I remember eve correctly your load times for this were at least 10 seconds into a different sector. Shield crash is also unexcusible. Your hatred for MO is almost comical though. A lot of people just let it go. Not sure why you can't . When I quit a game if I really feel compelled to , I post on the official forums directed mainly to the devs and let them know why, then I move on. I never said MO is perfect, far from it. I think the game is immersive as all hell and love the realism and so I play. If I do quit it will be because of exploiters and cheaters who aren't punished and the fact that exploits are in the game. Then I what give my opinion of the official forums and not look back. And I won't reload into it until the reason why I left is cleared up if I do at all. So this begs the question... Whats the motivation? Is it strictly a desire to forum pvp? Because I will be happy to accommodate you and the others.

It seems like you really aren't aware of the bugs.

Pet pathing isn't bad unless you go up a mountain.  As you crest a hill your pet often turns and bolts 3 miles in the wrong direction. 

The pet location for the pet owner is almost always different from where the pet is for other people.

 Pets often warp through objects like the stairs in Morin Khur.

When you first mount a horse the stam bar display is broken.

Horses now have sticky feet when going down a hill so you have to spam 'p' to move or call a gm.

You can just dismount and tell your horse to follow if this happens.

Mobs are still warping, just fight anything from a pig to a risar and you will see the mob warp through you every time you take a step backwards.

When you switch weapons you get combat mode speed without being in combat mode.

I am not even scratching the surface here with the amount of bugs in Mortal...

Yet knowing all this you played right up until the AQ-banning fiasco.. why?

Believe me, I am far from saying that MO has no bugs... Im just wondering why people "hang around"? I dont chill on the EQ1 forum section complaining about corpse summoning or companions(I can understand why Psycho is here complaining but others after months or years?). Every player knows the negatives of MO and either play it regardless or doesnt play at all. They have 5 employees with some knowledge of how to program a game. Its not going to be flawless... People play MO for what it does differently. The realism, the first person, the combat, the FFA, the details. If I was to judge the game strictly by the amount of bugs and the inept team I for sure wouldnt be playing. But I also look at what it does offer.

Originally posted by xDayx

 

(I can understand why Psycho is here complaining but others after months or years?)

Hello.

I am here, for the same reason you are here. Same reason, albeit from opposite ends of the spectrum. 

You want to post about how MO is oh! so good! even though it might be a shiny piece of turd floating among other turds.

I post about how MO sucks even though some might find it to be a lustrous piece of shit sinking in the pool.

No, SV havent killed our kith and kin (yet). Nor have they saved your friends and family (yet? I am kidding). 

You like them, We dont like them. Simple as.

To ask others why they post a negative view about MO, is to ask yourself why you post a positive view about it. If you were to find faults in your point of view and stop posting here then you can hope that the naysayers or the haters or the rationalists (take your pick, all are right) will also stop to post about MO after finding fault at discrediting crooks and thieves repeatedly over past and current transgressions. But your hope is better spent elsewhere, at a place where you already spend 15euros a month without taking into account multiple billings.

Clear enough?

Why not just play WURM online..  The best sandbox game out as of now

Originally posted by xDayx

Your hatred for MO is almost comical though. A lot of people just let it go. Not sure why you can't . Did you invest in SV? Or were you banned? When I quit a game if I really feel compelled to , I post on the official forums directed mainly to the devs and let them know why, then I move on. I never said MO is perfect, far from it. I think the game is immersive as all hell and love the realism and so I play. If I do quit it will be because of exploiters and cheaters who aren't punished and the fact that exploits are in the game. Then I what give my opinion of the official forums and not look back. And I won't reload into it until the reason why I left is cleared up if I do at all. So this begs the question... Whats the motivation? Is it strictly a desire to forum pvp? Because I will be happy to accommodate you and the others. In other words... If MO is so horrible why are you even coming within 10 feet of the game. What made you load it back up months ago? If I felt that strongly about a game I would never think they would ever be able to fix it due to gross ineptitude, therefore the only reason why I would play again to try it is so I could find more ammo for this sites forum to have something to argue with people like xDayx with.

Why do you guys always resort to calling your opponents "haters"? I don't call you a rabid fanboi in every post, do I? 

Neither do I speculate wildly about your personal reasons for posting here, becasue honestly I don't care about them. This is a forum; nobody owes anybody else an explanation of any personal agenda.

Why don't you discuss the matters at hand instead of attacking other posters? Psykobilly has already shown how clueless you are about the bugs in MO. Are you still claiming the game's core systems have no serious bugs?

Originally posted by Worstluck

Yes, but if you think of a game like a piece of art, like a movie, everything is subjective.  The only facts that really matter are numbers and the like, or who developed the game, real concrete things.  Fact is, only a few thousand people at most enjoy MO, we know this.  I don't think anyone is going to deny it, except the delusional.  Starvault developed and is managing the game, definitely a fact.  You can talk about features and compare them on paper, say UO has this, MO does not and vice versa.  It's tough though because every game will be different, and the features they have will interact with each other differently.

 And since you mentioned expectations, that is not fact in the least.  Everyone will have different experiences.  That is all subjective.  I can say that playing MO will be like playing UO or Eve, because maybe there were to me.  Not saying they were comparable, just hypothetically.

 Btw, this discusion began when a person asked what to expect when returning to a game.  Some people offered their advice.  The discussion was never about what is fact, or how terrible this game is comparison to other games. 

Facts became important as soon as people started claiming MO is the closest thing to a polished fantasy sandbox there is.

I'd also say facts are important whenever you discuss and compare different pieces of art. Ofc subjective opinions are what matters to the individual consumer, but if you want to discuss something on a slightly higher level, a statement like "X likes Y" is pretty irrelevant.

For example, a movie's absolute artisitic quality can not be determined since it will hold different qualities for different people, but still one can take its budget, its box office results, its overall critical reception, etc into consideration when discussing it. One can discuss the experience of the staff and producers, the quality of special effects, the actors' perfomances, the quality of the script, etc. You can compare it to other films in a similar genre and dicsuss wether it's similar to them or not, and if its an older film you can discuss its place in film history. When you do this you are using facts, not personal preferences.

The same can be said of games. Ofc someone's expectations can not be quantified and determined scientifically, but if anybody asks me "is MO like UO?" I can honestly say no, because no matter how you look at it, MO is not like UO. Anyone claiming otherwise are either lacking experience of both games, or totally delusional.

It's like saying Alien 2 is similar to the original Alien, just because it stole its title from Ridley Scott's masterpiece. But I guess if your a fan of the unauthorized Italien "sequel", you can find similarities and claim it's a true successor to the original.

---

Originally posted by Biskop

Facts became important as soon as people started claiming MO is the closest thing to a polished fantasy sandbox there is.
 

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Originally posted by vectrexevo

Why not just play WURM online..  The best sandbox game out as of now

I heard about it but from what I saw, it has plain horrible graphics.

Originally posted by realnaste

 

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Originally posted by Biskop

Facts became important as soon as people started claiming MO is the closest thing to a polished fantasy sandbox there is.
 

---

I will assume This is about my statement (still? really? that must have hurt...)
You almost managed to quote, or/and grasp what I was actually saying in my post.
Good try. one of the best so far.
I firmly believe that one day there will rise a champion of reading comprehension that will finally manage to reach an end of a post without loosing it's beginning (and few parts in between), and thus actually grasping the whole point.

 

No sir, your statement was the mere spark that started a wider discussion - sadly you are not the center of the universe.

So kindly take your ill-placed sarcasm somewhere else, please.

Originally posted by Biskop

No sir, (...)

Oh yes it is. Sorry for pointing out to the actual beginning of the discussion and the "spark". I know it makes twisting and derailing that much harder, but I cant help my self.

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by vectrexevo

Why not just play WURM online..  The best sandbox game out as of now

I heard about it but from what I saw, it has plain horrible graphics.

Because the graphics are what make a good sandbox game?

Originally posted by Talonsin

Originally posted by realnaste

 
Firstly You can expect a lot of bugs. You will get stuck and will be forced to wait for a GM to respond to your call for help, mobs will do impossible things, like going through walls,  engaging turbo boost too hit you from behind in a split second, or just plainly going invisible(but still dealing damage).
You will also be killed, or griefed by many and in many ways.
You will fight a clunky GUI trying to figure out what's what, and how to do even the most basic of things.
From time to time You will be annoyed at the prediction if you pvp.
That and many more are the problems of MO.
Now. MO is far from a finished and polished product, but it does have a forum. If you want advice from people that actually know anything about the game, go there and ask.
This place is just full of trolls that usually bash the game basing on their experience from the beta or shortly after and irrelevant BS like the CEOs past.
Cheers
Disclaimer- I play MO and with all it's problems consider it the only fantasy mmorpg game on the market remotely worth paying for. I know I posted a lot that could be interpreted as proof that MO is not worth trying, but because those issues are now on a level far from gamebreaking, I do believe the complete opposite.
This game (with all it's shortcommings) offers a diversified experience like no other modern game of this genre making it the closest thing to a polished fantasy sandbox you'll get.

 

PS. yay...i can't believe I actually made an account on this forum... :/

Riddle me this batman...  What is far from polished but also polished? 

P.S. I'm so glad that you came to this forum and gave us the benefit of your superior intellect. 

Way to not highlight the part that deflates your Troll post.  The  "making it the closest thing" part.  So including the whole sentence  hes actually saying its not polished.  This is what in the english language we call a "relevant" statement.  Its relevant to what else is available that is similar in nature.  By leaving the "making it the closet" part out you have what they call in the world of dirt bags politics......... taking something out of context.

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by vectrexevo

Why not just play WURM online..  The best sandbox game out as of now

I heard about it but from what I saw, it has plain horrible graphics.

Because the graphics are what make a good sandbox game?

Oh, yeah, of course.  I mean, who wants to use that expensive video card they bought for, of all things, good graphics?

Originally posted by jdlamson75

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by vectrexevo

Why not just play WURM online..  The best sandbox game out as of now

I heard about it but from what I saw, it has plain horrible graphics.

Because the graphics are what make a good sandbox game?

Oh, yeah, of course.  I mean, who wants to use that expensive video card they bought for, of all things, good graphics?

I think his point was that gameplay is usually valued over graphics when it comes to sandbox games :) For graphics there is always Crysis.

Originally posted by xDayx

You can just dismount and tell your horse to follow if this happens.

Yet knowing all this you played right up until the AQ-banning fiasco.. why?

Believe me, I am far from saying that MO has no bugs... Im just wondering why people "hang around"? I dont chill on the EQ1 forum section complaining about corpse summoning or companions(I can understand why Psycho is here complaining but others after months or years?). Every player knows the negatives of MO and either play it regardless or doesnt play at all. They have 5 employees with some knowledge of how to program a game. Its not going to be flawless... People play MO for what it does differently. The realism, the first person, the combat, the FFA, the details. If I was to judge the game strictly by the amount of bugs and the inept team I for sure wouldnt be playing. But I also look at what it does offer.

You can't dismount your horse when you are stuck on a hill.  This is probably the overwhelming majority of all GM stuck petitions right now.

I play Mortal, Darkfall, and Perpetuum...  all sandboxes with interesting things the other games don't have so I plan to follow them.  The fact is, that in the history of MO, the only way you get the devs to fix the bugs is to constantly harp about them.  The devs really have very little clue about most of the bugs, and have for a long time displayed an inability to replicate bugs and use proper debugging procedures (like in the case with client crashes).

A game like Perpetuum auto-sends any crash logs to the developers, where they analyze it and the crash is fixed the next patch (and they have regular hotfixes all the time - just view their patch history, it is quite amazing for the size of their team).

Mortal has given up on the hotfix concept.  They are putting all their chips on an expansion when an expansion is the LAST thing they should be doing.  For each feature of Awakening, they should be slowly releasing the code in as soon as they finish it.  This would limit the scope of new bugs, and allow the devs to isolate problems as they are introduced.  An expansion approach is great for a huge team, but not for a tiny team that can't properly react to new or even old bugs.

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by vectrexevo

Why not just play WURM online..  The best sandbox game out as of now

I heard about it but from what I saw, it has plain horrible graphics.

Because the graphics are what make a good sandbox game?

No, but its part of it. It doesn't mean it has to be super top notch. artistic work counts a lot. MO has gorgeous 3D engine and textures + effects but its all  because of the engine. MO's artistic design and artistic work is absolute rubbish. The total opposite would be DarkFall, which has average 3D engine with not so high definition texture, bump mapping etc, but has a huuuge artistic handwork all over, with every single place being very well worked.

Now I've seen samples of WURM and its really really too low graphically. its really amateurish, and the handwork/design is really poor.

Originally posted by RefMinor
The graphics just have to be good enough to immerse you in he game world, then gameplay takes over, but if the graphics don't get you in for the first few days or weeks then the gameplay doesn't have a chance

Id say graphics have to be appealing, not good as per polygon quality :)

Sorry but those graphics are simply piss poor and not just from a 3D engine point of view. Old Vanilla EverQuest 1 and DAOC have better graphics.

Else I would have been playing this, but that's just not acceptable to me.