Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

I love when people eat crow

Not sure what the people who bought into it thought they were going to get. Sometimes "trolls" aren't actually "trolls"

I think the less you EXPECT from a game....the more fun you probably have playing it.  Hype is hype.  All games get their season of hype.  Some of it is true and some is pure optimistic speculation, but one way or the other, I don't let myself get so caught up in it that it determines (ultimately) if I enjoy the game or not.

 

Why do we set our standards so low?  Why should we go into a game expecting "less."  I guess that's my problem.  "We are enjoying TOR because we are lowering our expectations, you should try it!"

When I said the "less" you expect, I meant QUANTITY of pre-conceived notions, not "lowering" our expectations and accepting junk.  I hear SWTOR is junk after lvl 50.....I'll make that decision for myself when I get there, but for now, I'm still enjoying it, and probably because I didn't have expectations.

You're misquoting me and/or reading INTO what I said, but....I really don't care.  I'm enjoying SWTOR for what it IS, not for what all the hype CLAIMED it would be.  When I'm no longer enjoying it, I will cease to play, but I assure you that won't be because of what anyone else simply SAID.  It will be because I've squeezed every last drop of fun out of the game.  That's how I play games.  I play them until I, and only I, am no longer enjoying them.

I had no expectations at ALL for SWTOR.  I wasn't even planning on playing it, since I had no one to experience it WITH and didn't really fancy playing alone.  And because I went into the game with no real idea of what to expect, I have enjoyed it.  Not because my expectations were LOW, but because I did not project ANY pre-conceived ideas onto the game.  I just picked it up because I had enjoyed some Bioware games in the past and I liked the original Star Wars movies, period.  I didn't really take time to consider what the game would be like, it was just something to pass the time.

Anyhow....I don't believe we should "lower" our expectations, I believe we should quit HAVING them and then enjoy games for what is good in them, since none of them are perfect for everyone or even perfect in any way.  I just enjoy things more if I don't attach pre-conceived notions to them, that's all.  Oh....and that's only my OPINION, as if I should have to say that.

Originally posted by Cetra

Its funny how bioware launched a new mmo in 2012 just to play catch up to a 2004 mmo in terms of features and functionality.

Still the same old commendations and dailies grind game with everything 5 years backwwards. 

    Name one game released in the last 10 years that had as much content, features and functuionality as SWTOR at release as this one has.  Just one, if you can.  Simple fact is you can't because on just content alone NO OTHER GAME can compare to this one at release.  Heck, most games can't even compare on content alone even after two years live.  SWTOR has some problems that need working on.  It has some features that need to be added.  But not recognizing and admitting this is simply childish.

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by Cetra

Its funny how bioware launched a new mmo in 2012 just to play catch up to a 2004 mmo in terms of features and functionality.

Still the same old commendations and dailies grind game with everything 5 years backwwards. 

    Name one game released in the last 10 years that had as much content, features and functuionality as SWTOR at release as this one has.  Just one, if you can.  Simple fact is you can't because on just content alone NO OTHER GAME can compare to this one at release.  Heck, most games can't even compare on content alone even after two years live.  SWTOR has some problems that need working on.  It has some features that need to be added.  But not recognizing and admitting this is simply childish.

RIFT

There you go.

I could go further with single player/coop games but I'd be taking the pi$$.

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by Cetra

Its funny how bioware launched a new mmo in 2012 just to play catch up to a 2004 mmo in terms of features and functionality.

Still the same old commendations and dailies grind game with everything 5 years backwwards. 

    Name one game released in the last 10 years that had as much content, features and functuionality as SWTOR at release as this one has.  Just one, if you can.  Simple fact is you can't because on just content alone NO OTHER GAME can compare to this one at release.  Heck, most games can't even compare on content alone even after two years live.  SWTOR has some problems that need working on.  It has some features that need to be added.  But not recognizing and admitting this is simply childish.

Rift...

Tera (and that's in CB)...

GW2 (CB as well)...

ToR isn't the shit.  It was good for what it was.  A SPRPG... (single player)

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by Cetra

Its funny how bioware launched a new mmo in 2012 just to play catch up to a 2004 mmo in terms of features and functionality.

Still the same old commendations and dailies grind game with everything 5 years backwwards. 

    Name one game released in the last 10 years that had as much content, features and functuionality as SWTOR at release as this one has.  Just one, if you can.  Simple fact is you can't because on just content alone NO OTHER GAME can compare to this one at release.  Heck, most games can't even compare on content alone even after two years live.  SWTOR has some problems that need working on.  It has some features that need to be added.  But not recognizing and admitting this is simply childish.

i can answer that one, im playing it now, it's called Rift. And it was feature complete with ui enhancements AT LAUNCH. go look it up. It's the reason it is number one in popularity right now.

Edit: The thing that gets me tho about these replies is that why aren't these people more angry at EA/BW instead of angry at us posters that are pointing out to people who don't know, the reasons not to bother with this game? 

Game has till the end of march to pick itself up. this is actually a common thing in MMO's and people shouldn't be suprised about it. All games have flopped on launch and if they are up to snuff in 3 months they get successful enough to hold onto a p2p style for a few years.

Exceptions are few.

I bought a 3 month chunk.  Wish I hadn't.

Originally posted by Athcear

I bought a 3 month chunk.  Wish I hadn't.

Same here.  Bought CE + 2 months extra.  Haven't used it since patch #3.  Killed my FPS.

Originally posted by jacklo

Originally posted by kalinis

there is no point arguing that they are wrong. "Bioware's numbers prove them wrong but they just tell us bioware lies to there investors , So u cant do anything but ignore them.

Thats what i try to do lately, i just go play tor and ignore these people. They have no facts to back them up but that doesnt matter to them.

The fact that you believe marketeers over players says a lot.

I've been in the marketing game and let me tell you it's so full of bullshit I can't understand how it's not illegal.

Why is it the only source that you guys will credit, is from the publishers themselves?

Hell, with you guys as followers I wish I was a politition... whatever I say is the truth right?

    If you knew corporate law in the slightest, you would realise that lying to investors is a crime.  Punishable with fines AND prison time for not only the person telling the lie, but all individuals involved in the lie all the way up to and including the CEO.  It's part of the reason the former Governor Corzine is in so much trouble.  He knew his company had problems and lied to investors about it.  So in short, EA Could be lying, but it is unlikely since it is so easy to be caught and punished.  It only takes one upset investor after all to send the whole house of cards tumbling down.

Originally posted by LadyNoh

Game has till the end of march to pick itself up. this is actually a common thing in MMO's and people shouldn't be suprised about it. All games have flopped on launch and if they are up to snuff in 3 months they get successful enough to hold onto a p2p style for a few years.

 

Exceptions are few.

See, the issue with SW:TOR is that it was both marketed and funded to be a PRIME player in the MMO field.

The way things are shaping up to be, it'll barely be picking up the scraps between GW2, TSW, Tera, Planetside 2. etc...

Sure, it'll stay alive for some time, but nowhere near the scale it was expected to. IMO.

Originally posted by GMan3

    If you knew corporate law in the slightest, you would realise that lying to investors is a crime.  Punishable with fines AND prison time for not only the person telling the lie, but all individuals involved in the lie all the way up to and including the CEO.  It's part of the reason the former Governor Corzine is in so much trouble.  He knew his company had problems and lied to investors about it.  So in short, EA Could be lying, but it is unlikely since it is so easy to be caught and punished.  It only takes one upset investor after all to send the whole house of cards tumbling down.

It's not lying...

It's the misinterpretation of data.

Believe me.  I have seen it done in companies.  It's positive spin.

While not completely false, it's not completely true.  Kind of like political ads.  Take them with a grain of salt.

Anyhow....I don't believe we should "lower" our expectations, I believe we should quit HAVING them and then enjoy games for what is good in them, since none of them are perfect for everyone or even perfect in any way.  I just enjoy things more if I don't attach pre-conceived notions to them, that's all.  Oh....and that's only my OPINION, as if I should have to say that.

Let me help you with your logical fallacy there. 0 is mathematically less then lower. When you have 0 expectations you have nothing, and when you have no expectations and you pay for these games anyway these companies do not learn a thing because they don't look at logins they look at sales figures. If you don't expect games to be good, then you might as well not even buy them because they will be crap every time like this so long as there are people who are misinformed or have way too much faith in other human beings making these games.

It doesn't solve a thing.

actually im pretty sure thats why they released it when they did. think about it, releasing something like SWTOR inbetween GW2, Planetside2, TSW, and Archage. SWTOR can only really land the traditional gamer card, and really they have to compete for WoW with that and WoW has a massive advantage with their already massive playerbase, and their player base doesnt want to lose all the years they put into their characters.

Thus they released it early than expected to try and pull back in some profit atleast. 

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by hornedtoad

I foolishly subscribed for 3 months.  I'm out in April with most of my guild.  Until then I'll raid 1-2x a week just to hang out.  Definitely looking forward to GW2.

Not to flame, but I never got this.  Why on earth would anyone subscribe for more than a month to a just released game?

tbh, I won't do a multimonth sub to any game.  Patches change things, devs come up with a colossaly stupid idea, etc.

  I commonly set my payment plans to three month renewing. I did with this game, I figured I'd get at least 90 days entertainment value out of it. Though that really did end up being a stretch for me. I have to will myself to log in anymore. You get a better rate when you sup for longer periods and when you play 3 to 5 mmo-rpgs, it does save you a bit. :) When you are in a household with multiple gamers it saves you alot. 

Ouch... 0 expectations.

Maybe EA could then charge us by the minute to play Pong 3D.

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by jacklo

Originally posted by kalinis

there is no point arguing that they are wrong. "Bioware's numbers prove them wrong but they just tell us bioware lies to there investors , So u cant do anything but ignore them.

Thats what i try to do lately, i just go play tor and ignore these people. They have no facts to back them up but that doesnt matter to them.

The fact that you believe marketeers over players says a lot.

I've been in the marketing game and let me tell you it's so full of bullshit I can't understand how it's not illegal.

Why is it the only source that you guys will credit, is from the publishers themselves?

Hell, with you guys as followers I wish I was a politition... whatever I say is the truth right?

    If you knew corporate law in the slightest, you would realise that lying to investors is a crime.  Punishable with fines AND prison time for not only the person telling the lie, but all individuals involved in the lie all the way up to and including the CEO.  It's part of the reason the former Governor Corzine is in so much trouble.  He knew his company had problems and lied to investors about it.  So in short, EA Could be lying, but it is unlikely since it is so easy to be caught and punished.  It only takes one upset investor after all to send the whole house of cards tumbling down.

Who mentioned lying to investors? I'm talking about lying (being economical with the truth) to customers.

The lack of any positive news from BW/EA themselves speaks volumes in itself.

Originally posted by GMan3

    Name one game released in the last 10 years that had as much content, features and functuionality as SWTOR at release as this one has.  Just one, if you can.  Simple fact is you can't because on just content alone NO OTHER GAME can compare to this one at release.  Heck, most games can't even compare on content alone even after two years live.  SWTOR has some problems that need working on.  It has some features that need to be added.  But not recognizing and admitting this is simply childish.

LOL. One game in the last 10 years? I can name several.

EQ2

WoW

GW1

LotRO

SWG

Rift

And I haven't even dipped into the F2P Market yet...

TOR has the most amount of voice-overs, and the highest budget. That's it's claim to fame atm. I can't find a single thing that it excels at beyond those two points. The UI is garbage, it still has plenty of bugs & lag, PvP is still a joke, The quests primarily fall into either dailies or kill X quests. You can focus on the story, but you will need to grind PvP to suplement that if you don't wanna quest grind.

TOR is fun for what it is, but it has come down a long way from the pedistal people tried to place it on at launch.

Originally posted by LadyNoh

actually im pretty sure thats why they released it when they did. think about it, releasing something like SWTOR inbetween GW2, Planetside2, TSW, and Archage. SWTOR can only really land the traditional gamer card, and really they have to compete for WoW with that and WoW has a massive advantage with their already massive playerbase, and their player base doesnt want to lose all the years they put into their characters.

 

Thus they released it early than expected to try and pull back in some profit atleast. 

Definitely makes sense when you put it that way. Their initial sales are irrefutably solid/exceptional.

Originally posted by aesperus

TOR is fun for what it is, but it has come down a long way from the pedistal people tried to place it on at launch.

 I wouldn't go that far.  It's unfair.  ToR is GOOD.  It just isn't GREAT.  It isn't what I expected and it's not what the fan base expected.  I spent a LOT of money on the game to not be playing it by the end of the 30 days. It SADDENS me.

If SWTOR was released 2010 instead of 2011 it would have been much more successful. Sorry guys this game is gonna fall simply due to timing.