Originally posted by someforumguy

All the sandbox vs themepark ppl gtfo, or get back on topic and address the OP's two raised points.

1. Current death penalty mechanics = skilled players dont (often) pay for repairs

2. Combat. Im not sure about this. Ive mainly seen low lvl areas and players have barely skills at that point, so I dont expect much from mobs either. But yeah, I agree that GW1 combat looks more tactical. But on the other hand GW2 is more twitchy with the dodging.

Why? It has been discussed to death and was more than likely simply baiting anyways.

So back to more important things. Does this mean TSW is a themebox too or will that fit more into the sandpark variety? Just want to make sure I'm hip with all the new terminology. I would hate to be out of the loop.

GW2 is not a sandbox. It is not even sandbox-ish. Also don't see how it's becoming more "WoW-ish" aside from the fact that it is in the theme park catagory. That being said I can't wait to play GW2!

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Distopia

It's only  that way because people feel the need to redefine something that shouldn't be redefined. Sandbox, what is an actual sandbox? It's a box of sand made to build things in, that's the purpose of it. In gaming terms freeform non-linear game-play should not be confused with being a sandbox IMO, as it again implies you can manipulate the world when you can't. Taking off the training wheels and letting go doesn't make your kids bike a sandbox.

You know what's a sandbox game?

 

Having a big bunch of legos on a table. :x

I think almost all these MMORPGs calling themselves sandbox games are significantly overselling themselves.

QFT

games that have player made content and the tools to provide that player made content is what I consider a sandbox

hence, minecraft and neverwinter nights are in the category

there is no mmo in that category (unless you consider minecraft and NWN as mmos)

Actually, I can list a couple of MMO's that I would consider sandbox or sandbox'ish.   UO is a sandbox game.   EVE is sandbox'ish.   Vanguard is sandbox'ish.   If SWG pre-NGE were still around it would have been on the list of sandbox games.

so if you have sub categories for sandbox games then it stands to reason that you should have sub categories for themeparks yes?

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by itgrowls

Sandboxes contrary to popular belief does not refer only to building in a world....it's so much more. It's interacting with the world in a by choice by chance only system instead of a directed path through the world.

It's only  that way because people feel the need to redefine something that shouldn't be redefined. Sandbox, what is an actual sandbox? It's a box of sand made to build things in, that's the purpose of it. In gaming terms freeform non-linear game-play should not be confused with being a sandbox IMO, as it again implies you can manipulate the world when you can't. Taking off the training wheels and letting go doesn't make your kids bike a sandbox.

Spiderman 2 is considered a sandbox game for the reasons itgrowls gave. In fact most games of that type are considered sandboxes.

This suggests at least to me that the word has multiple meanings and does not necessarily mean strictly that you need to be able to build things in order to qualify.

Originally posted by Zeroxin

When Dream goes in, he goes in. Personally I don't agree but to each is own and why do your posts have to be essays of epic proportions? My eyes could die if i read all of that.

Agreement on all points except my eyes are fine after reading it through.

I don't see the WoW similarity.  Anywhere.  Except maybe that it's a fantasy genre game.

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by itgrowls

Sandboxes contrary to popular belief does not refer only to building in a world....it's so much more. It's interacting with the world in a by choice by chance only system instead of a directed path through the world.

It's only  that way because people feel the need to redefine something that shouldn't be redefined. Sandbox, what is an actual sandbox? It's a box of sand made to build things in, that's the purpose of it. In gaming terms freeform non-linear game-play should not be confused with being a sandbox IMO, as it again implies you can manipulate the world when you can't. Taking off the training wheels and letting go doesn't make your kids bike a sandbox.

Spiderman 2 is considered a sandbox game for the reasons itgrowls gave. In fact most games of that type are considered sandboxes.

This suggests at least to me that the word has multiple meanings and does not necessarily mean strictly that you need to be able to build things in order to qualify.

 

Same way that GTA games and Bethseda games have been piled under sandbox.

I dunno.  I still maintain is the problem that sandbox is being defined largely off of people's feeeeelings.

It's like art now (Alternatively, pornography)

A sandbox?  I'll know it when I see it.

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Distopia

It's only  that way because people feel the need to redefine something that shouldn't be redefined. Sandbox, what is an actual sandbox? It's a box of sand made to build things in, that's the purpose of it. In gaming terms freeform non-linear game-play should not be confused with being a sandbox IMO, as it again implies you can manipulate the world when you can't. Taking off the training wheels and letting go doesn't make your kids bike a sandbox.

You know what's a sandbox game?

 

Having a big bunch of legos on a table. :x

I think almost all these MMORPGs calling themselves sandbox games are significantly overselling themselves.

QFT

games that have player made content and the tools to provide that player made content is what I consider a sandbox

hence, minecraft and neverwinter nights are in the category

there is no mmo in that category (unless you consider minecraft and NWN as mmos)

Actually, I can list a couple of MMO's that I would consider sandbox or sandbox'ish.   UO is a sandbox game.   EVE is sandbox'ish.   Vanguard is sandbox'ish.   If SWG pre-NGE were still around it would have been on the list of sandbox games.

so if you have sub categories for sandbox games then it stands to reason that you should have sub categories for themeparks yes?

Dude, do whatever you like.   I personally see nothing in GW2 to indicate to me that it has anything remotely rleated to it being anything more than a themepark.   It is what it is.  Whether it is a good themepark, that is the real question.   Death penalty aside, I do not care if it does or doesn't resemble WoW - what convcerns me most if if the game is fun to play and doesn't bore me to tears within the first few hours of play.

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by itgrowls

Sandboxes contrary to popular belief does not refer only to building in a world....it's so much more. It's interacting with the world in a by choice by chance only system instead of a directed path through the world.

It's only  that way because people feel the need to redefine something that shouldn't be redefined. Sandbox, what is an actual sandbox? It's a box of sand made to build things in, that's the purpose of it. In gaming terms freeform non-linear game-play should not be confused with being a sandbox IMO, as it again implies you can manipulate the world when you can't. Taking off the training wheels and letting go doesn't make your kids bike a sandbox.

Spiderman 2 is considered a sandbox game for the reasons itgrowls gave. In fact most games of that type are considered sandboxes.

This suggests at least to me that the word has multiple meanings and does not necessarily mean strictly that you need to be able to build things in order to qualify.

 

Same way that GTA games and Bethseda games have been piled under sandbox.

I dunno.  I still maintain is the problem that sandbox is being defined largely off of people's feeeeelings.

It's like art now (Alternatively, pornography)

A sandbox?  I'll know it when I see it.

Yep basically this, I remember when GTA3 was blown up as this great sandbox, it left me scratching my head, and thinking wheres the sand?

How about a new category? A pool?

You're free to do what you want in the pool, but you're not chasing anything, and the pool is not endless. The pool also has rubber ducks and all kinds of toys in it to play with.

...No?

Originally posted by Teala

I think people need to realize that this game is a themepark game with a twist.    It is not the next coming of gaming Jesus...it is just another themepark.

If any game will shake up the genre it will be ArcheAge.   It is the only game in the future that will put this genre back on the path it should have been going since the time of UO.  

Except Archage will be a niche game and not appeal to the masses, which is what companies look for when thry invest money. It looks like a really cool game...I'm not bashing it...but for a game to really have an impact on the genre, it will need to get a lot of subs and make their company a lot of money. PvP or sandbox centric games have not proved to do so yet.

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by itgrowls

Sandboxes contrary to popular belief does not refer only to building in a world....it's so much more. It's interacting with the world in a by choice by chance only system instead of a directed path through the world.

It's only  that way because people feel the need to redefine something that shouldn't be redefined. Sandbox, what is an actual sandbox? It's a box of sand made to build things in, that's the purpose of it. In gaming terms freeform non-linear game-play should not be confused with being a sandbox IMO, as it again implies you can manipulate the world when you can't. Taking off the training wheels and letting go doesn't make your kids bike a sandbox.

Spiderman 2 is considered a sandbox game for the reasons itgrowls gave. In fact most games of that type are considered sandboxes.

This suggests at least to me that the word has multiple meanings and does not necessarily mean strictly that you need to be able to build things in order to qualify.

 

Same way that GTA games and Bethseda games have been piled under sandbox.

I dunno.  I still maintain is the problem that sandbox is being defined largely off of people's feeeeelings.

It's like art now (Alternatively, pornography)

A sandbox?  I'll know it when I see it.

Basically we need more words. :p

Two classifications just isn't cutting it anymore. I wouldn't consider Skyrim a themepark and considering the open exploration in GW2 and how you are openly encouraged to just go find your own path I don't think the word fits that game either.

Definitely not saying it's a sandbox though, don't get me wrong. Was just pointing out in the previous post that the word and it's use isn't as strict as some claim it to be.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Distopia

It's only  that way because people feel the need to redefine something that shouldn't be redefined. Sandbox, what is an actual sandbox? It's a box of sand made to build things in, that's the purpose of it. In gaming terms freeform non-linear game-play should not be confused with being a sandbox IMO, as it again implies you can manipulate the world when you can't. Taking off the training wheels and letting go doesn't make your kids bike a sandbox.

You know what's a sandbox game?

 

Having a big bunch of legos on a table. :x

I think almost all these MMORPGs calling themselves sandbox games are significantly overselling themselves.

QFT

games that have player made content and the tools to provide that player made content is what I consider a sandbox

hence, minecraft and neverwinter nights are in the category

there is no mmo in that category (unless you consider minecraft and NWN as mmos)

Actually, I can list a couple of MMO's that I would consider sandbox or sandbox'ish.   UO is a sandbox game.   EVE is sandbox'ish.   Vanguard is sandbox'ish.   If SWG pre-NGE were still around it would have been on the list of sandbox games.

so if you have sub categories for sandbox games then it stands to reason that you should have sub categories for themeparks yes?

Dude, do whatever you like.   I personally see nothing in GW2 to indicate to me that it has anything remotely rleated to it being anything more than a themepark.   It is what it is.  Whether it is a good themepark, that is the real question.   Death penalty aside, I do not care if it does or doesn't resemble WoW - what convcerns me most if if the game is fun to play and doesn't bore me to tears within the first few hours of play.

LOL, I'm just busting some balls here. Personally I'm sick of labels on everything. I agree 100% with your last sentence, if the game is fun then that is all that matters.

---

Originally posted by Meowhead
ANYWAY, the cash shop has little or nothing to do with the actual crafting system, since everything you mentioned can be gotten in game through non-cash shop methods.  The crafting system more has to do with the type of game it is.

---

Fair enough. But I noticed that none of the items I mentioned are gotten through the actual crafting system. Its either cash shop or combat to get those items which reinforces my initial point.

Wtf did happen to this thread? The OP (or Arenanet for that matter) NEVER claimed that GW2 would be a sandbox. But ok, ill join the chaos.

There are no sandbox MMO's.

For anyone who claims that some MMO is a sandbox, I claim that said person fails to see the lineair progression and restrictions which makes that same MMO not a sandbox in somebody else's eyes. So, sandbox schmandbox.

Originally posted by Teala

It's a themepark.   I do not care if you wish to continue to think the way you do.  Call it whatever you like.  To me it is just another themepark.

While it may be a 'themepark', it doesnt look like a WoW/EQ2/Rift/LOTRO/SWtoR/TERA style themepark.

The WoW themepark model is really defined by being told what you should do and where you should do it.  You go to a quest hub, make everyone happy, then move on to the next quest hub.  Everquest was built on exploration, and finding your own personal way through Norrath.

What GW2 *might* be, is a fresh take on the non-sandbox genre, just as WoW, with its solo focus and quest hub style play were a fresh take on EQ's formula.  GW2 looks to bring back that sense of exploration.  And to let you forge your own path so where your experience will be quite different from someone else.  If they pull it off, GW2 could be a gamechanger in the same way WoW was a gamechanger.  Just hopefully a positive gamechanger this time, because WoW was not positive for the genre.  Its absolutely wonderful and beneficial that WoW and EQ2 exist, they are both great games.  There was no need for everything after to copy so much of that style. 

Originally posted by ropenice

Originally posted by Teala

I think people need to realize that this game is a themepark game with a twist.    It is not the next coming of gaming Jesus...it is just another themepark.

If any game will shake up the genre it will be ArcheAge.   It is the only game in the future that will put this genre back on the path it should have been going since the time of UO.  

Except Archage will be a niche game and not appeal to the masses, which is what companies look for when thry invest money. It looks like a really cool game...I'm not bashing it...but for a game to really have an impact on the genre, it will need to get a lot of subs and make their company a lot of money. PvP or sandbox centric games have not proved to do so yet.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see about ArchaAge.

Originally posted by cinos

This suggests at least to me that the word has multiple meanings and does not necessarily mean strictly that you need to be able to build things in order to qualify. 

When it comes to mmo gamers everything has multiple meanings or is subject to interpretation depending on the poster. If these forums prove nothing else it is this.

Well, that and their fundamental belief that everything sounds better if they use an analogy.

I thought the "GW2 is WoW" complainers would take longer to show themselves. You want to see a WoW clone, check out what Bioware is doing. GW2 is about as far from WoW like as you can possibly get in this day and age. Not really sure the OP has even researched the game. Anyone with two eyes and a brain..oh wait, now I get it! >.>

Originally posted by monarc333

I thought the "GW2 is WoW" complainers would take longer to show themselves. You want to see a WoW clone, check out what Bioware is doing. GW2 is about as far from WoW like as you can possibly get in this day and age. Not really sure the OP has even researched the game. Anyone with two eyes and a brain..oh wait, now I get it! >.>

Funny thing is that the OP has posted loads about GW2 (mainly about GW2 lore I think). I used to see him as GW2 fanboy and now in his disappointment he shows a lot of hyperbole and mentiones WoW and everyone is seeing him as troll lol.

Originally posted by ropenice

Originally posted by Teala

I think people need to realize that this game is a themepark game with a twist.    It is not the next coming of gaming Jesus...it is just another themepark.

If any game will shake up the genre it will be ArcheAge.   It is the only game in the future that will put this genre back on the path it should have been going since the time of UO.  

Except Archage will be a niche game and not appeal to the masses, which is what companies look for when thry invest money. It looks like a really cool game...I'm not bashing it...but for a game to really have an impact on the genre, it will need to get a lot of subs and make their company a lot of money. PvP or sandbox centric games have not proved to do so yet.