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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Full Loot Misconceptions

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56 posts found
  ThemePork

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 317

Pork, it's like beef but not quite.

2/24/12 7:09:55 PM#21
Originally posted by Jakdstripper

there is nothign wrong with DF. it's one of the very few hard core games with a very punishing death mechanic that rewards those that grind the most.

 

what you fail to understand is that the hard core full loot gamers are, and always will be, few. as long as you are happy with that then life in DF is grand.

if, on the other hand, you want a lot more people in the game then things have to change. you can't have it both ways.

You only need one full server to enjoy a MMO. Having 50 full servers doesn't affect your gaming experience in the slightest. (granted most of these indie sandboxes can't even pull off 1 full server, that's a shame but it's mostly due to the low quality of their game, not the sandbox nature of the game).

Yes more players equals more revenue and usually that money gets reinjected into the game, that's obviously a plus but on the flip side, precarious working conditions for the devs garantees they'll be working double time and will try to pull off some bold moves, unlike the lazy devs at Blizzard, for example, falling a sleep at their desks instead of working hard on how to improve their game.

  maplestone

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

2/24/12 7:18:07 PM#22
Originally posted by Valhama

And I will never understand this mentality.

Just out of curiousity, are you serious?  I mean people say this, but I always assume they are just trolling.  I guess this is a sort of pointless question because there really isn't an answer you can provide that I'll believe.

  ThemePork

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 317

Pork, it's like beef but not quite.

2/24/12 7:33:40 PM#23
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

2/25/12 2:22:05 PM#24
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1639

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

2/25/12 2:24:31 PM#25
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

2/25/12 2:30:48 PM#26
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

It does not have to be heated debates, but in this age there is certainly feedback from customers, but lets not divert from the question shall we?

I asked Charas, assuming that he is an adult that may have done purchasses of something in his life, to explain how he goes about choosing product A versus product B. How does he determine that product A is of better quality than Product B?

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1639

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

2/25/12 2:33:25 PM#27
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

It does not have to be heated debates, but in this age there is certainly feedback from customers, but lets not divert from the question shall we?

I asked Charas, assuming that he is an adult that may have done purchasses of something in his life, to explain how he goes about choosing product A versus product B. How does he determine that product A is of better quality than Product B?

Do you deny that the thempark cap tries to deny the sandbox camp of mere existense based on the fact that it is not as popular? That seems to be the most repeated argument against sandboxes on this site. So I would like you to address that fact.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2260

2/25/12 2:38:02 PM#28

Last time I played Darkfall, just starting on the NA server, I was ganked or had gank attempts on me more than a handful of times in the newb areas in a matter of hours.

 

The game really isn't worth the hassle. Darkfall could increase their playerbase by many times if they just added some relatively safe areas to play. They don't even need %100 safe areas, just areas that are mostly safe, that actually also put the gankers at risk of losing something other than easily replaced gear.

 

Darkfall is a griefers paradise.

 

Having to watch your back every second is in no way, shape, or form, thrilling.

 

I can equate trying to start from scratch in the game to going into lvl 85 battlegrounds with green pve gear in wow. Except you're not rewarded nearly as much for playing.

 

 

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1639

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

2/25/12 2:43:33 PM#29
Originally posted by jusomdude

Last time I played Darkfall, just starting on the NA server, I was ganked or had gank attempts on me more than a handful of times in the newb areas in a matter of hours.

 

The game really isn't worth the hassle. Darkfall could increase their playerbase by many times if they just added some relatively safe areas to play. They don't even need %100 safe areas, just areas that are mostly safe, that actually also put the gankers at risk of losing something other than easily replaced gear.

 

Darkfall is a griefers paradise.

 

Having to watch your back every second is in no way, shape, or form, thrilling.

 

I can equate trying to start from scratch in the game to going into lvl 85 battlegrounds with green pve gear in wow. Except you're not rewarded nearly as much for playing.

 

 

Last time I played DFO I found the starter areas to be allmost completely devoid of other players. THey had all moved on because there wasn't anyone to gank anymore. I saw about 6 people in the ork capital cities in the month I bought. I ran the noob dungeons and surrounding areas almost completely uncontested. Only some random Alfar who had traveled to the Ork lands ever posed a threat.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

2/25/12 2:48:01 PM#30
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

It does not have to be heated debates, but in this age there is certainly feedback from customers, but lets not divert from the question shall we?

I asked Charas, assuming that he is an adult that may have done purchasses of something in his life, to explain how he goes about choosing product A versus product B. How does he determine that product A is of better quality than Product B?

Do you deny that the thempark cap tries to deny the sandbox camp of mere existense based on the fact that it is not as popular? That seems to be the most repeated argument against sandboxes on this site. So I would like you to address that fact.

Ok lets address it. No I do not deny that fact,  I think it is true.

But that does not make Darkfall a fun game or a quality game nevertheless. If we want to evaluate Darkfall's quality, then we must compare it to other Sandbox Games.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1639

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

2/25/12 2:50:49 PM#31
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

It does not have to be heated debates, but in this age there is certainly feedback from customers, but lets not divert from the question shall we?

I asked Charas, assuming that he is an adult that may have done purchasses of something in his life, to explain how he goes about choosing product A versus product B. How does he determine that product A is of better quality than Product B?

Do you deny that the thempark cap tries to deny the sandbox camp of mere existense based on the fact that it is not as popular? That seems to be the most repeated argument against sandboxes on this site. So I would like you to address that fact.

Ok lets address it. No I do not deny that fact,  I think it is true.

But that does not make Darkfall a fun game or a quality game nevertheless. If we want to evaluate Darkfall's quality, then we must compare it to other Sandbox Games.

Darkfall is a poor example of a sandbox ffa mmo. It is more of a persistent FPS. The exploits that plagued the game early on left the game crippled and scarred. The fact there is no skillcap makes it impossible fo ra new player to ever bridge the gap of the vets who most likely macro 24 hours a day to increase said skills. 

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2260

2/25/12 2:55:54 PM#32

I'll say that DF is probably the best fantasy sandbox MMO I've played, just don't like the forced pvp on noobs. The noob protection is easily removed when some jackass jumps in front of your sword while attacking a mob.

They need to make the reward scale with risk. As it is, griefers risk next to nothing.

 

Someone should make a parody, griefers paradise with darkfall footage.

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

2/25/12 2:59:33 PM#33
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

It does not have to be heated debates, but in this age there is certainly feedback from customers, but lets not divert from the question shall we?

I asked Charas, assuming that he is an adult that may have done purchasses of something in his life, to explain how he goes about choosing product A versus product B. How does he determine that product A is of better quality than Product B?

Do you deny that the thempark cap tries to deny the sandbox camp of mere existense based on the fact that it is not as popular? That seems to be the most repeated argument against sandboxes on this site. So I would like you to address that fact.

Ok lets address it. No I do not deny that fact,  I think it is true.

But that does not make Darkfall a fun game or a quality game nevertheless. If we want to evaluate Darkfall's quality, then we must compare it to other Sandbox Games.

Darkfall is a poor example of a sandbox ffa mmo. It is more of a persistent FPS. The exploits that plagued the game early on left the game crippled and scarred. The fact there is no skillcap makes it impossible fo ra new player to ever bridge the gap of the vets who most likely macro 24 hours a day to increase said skills. 

Exactly. And am very aware of its flaws, I have played Darkfall. Was in Closed beta for a while too as well as managed to get in the very rocky release heh. Gave it a fair shot.

But see what you just posted and what i just posted is considered Feedback, anyone not knowing anything about darkfall would read what we post and make a decision to try it or not based on our and many other's feedback. (not baring exceptions there are always exceptions).

And they may even come to the conclusion that since there seems to be so many negative feedback about it, and the fact that you just meantion it in your previous reply about the newbie zones being empty, that Darkfall is not a popular game.

The feedback people share, constitutes Qualification. negative feedback means that it is a low quality product. And while it would be true that Popularity does not necessarilly imply quality, usually the two go hand in hand after a certain stage in the life of a product.

Unfortunatelly it is not the case with Darkfall, it is well known by many because many have tried it, and qualified it.

So while the statement is true, that truth hold true only as long as the product is new and its qualities or flaws not discovered or recognised yet, at this stage in the case of Darkfall, Popularity does equal quality.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  Dren_Utogi

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1465

2/25/12 3:02:07 PM#34
Originally posted by 77lolmac77

Now I can completely understand why people dislike full loot. Nobody wants to work on something only to have some jerk swoop in and wipe out anything you might have accomplished.

However, I feel like there's some huge misinformation about full loot games (or more specifically Darkfall)

 

1: Gear is hard to obtain, therefore losing it is too much of a hassle.

False. Any clan that doesnt have stockpiles of gear in the bank isnt a very good clan. There is no "gear tokens" you have to grind to get something useful, so you cant say it takes longer to get geared than a themepark. All it takes is a couple of friends and a trip to some mobs to find armor.

 

2. You cannot step foot outside a newb zone without getting ganked

False. Not very many people go after new players for a number of reasons. The number one is that clan gatherers are more valuable targets, and also most players realize that pillaging the starter areas deter away new players. Of course you will have the people who do try to kill newbs, but in my experience there's even more people who try to guide and protect new players, so that they can grow and join their clan.

 

3. Everyone is already way too powerful and I wont be able to make an impact unless I do months of grinding

True, but I think a lot of people are overlooking this is exactly how Theme Parks work. Nobody makes a character and joins an MC raid that night. It takes time, and depending on how helpful your clan/fiends are, the exact time may vary. However, you dont need to be maxed in all skills to be competitive. Archery in Darkfall is very easy to level, and very useful as many fights involve mounts at some point or another. The only difference between a sandbox grind and a themepark grind is in a themepark you have text saying "do this" and a sandbox just has you fight things. So if you like yawn-filled quests that dont impact the game world and treat you like every other person, I guess themeparks have the edge here.

 

4. 90% of the playerbase are gankers who have no morals or honor

Totally false, in fact Darkfall has some of the most responsible and honorable people I've ever played with. Between showing good mobs to kill, providing supplies and gear, and just having people to roll with, clans in sandboxes arent just a guild roster and a chat room. They have meaning, and in turn, give a sense of real pride. Think DAOCs realm pride but on a much closer-knit scale. Of course, you may come across enemy clans and get ganked from time to time but that only makes it that much sweeter when you raid their city.

 

5. The genre is just a niche and will never be more than that

Well nobody can truly know if this is true or not but with attitudes like that of course it will be true. Look at EVE online, that game has 300k+ subs and doesnt even have WASD movement or avatars. If a game was made like Darkfall but with EVE's 0.0 and high sec system it would be the best sandbox by a large margin IMO.

 

Now that's not to say Darkfall doesnt have its fair share of problems. But what game is perfect? WoW? Nope. SWTOR? God no. GW2? Depends who you ask even though its barely in beta. But seriously, if Darkfall 2.0 ever comes out, I'm there in a heartbeat, and hopefully anyone who doesn't blindly believe anything on these forums will be too.

Or just keep playing the theme park of the month, doing the same things every day as every other player so you can get +6 more stamina to be able to kill the next boss who gives +10 stamina

*edited for the eyes*

all i can say is , play to crush

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1639

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

2/25/12 3:04:21 PM#35
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

It does not have to be heated debates, but in this age there is certainly feedback from customers, but lets not divert from the question shall we?

I asked Charas, assuming that he is an adult that may have done purchasses of something in his life, to explain how he goes about choosing product A versus product B. How does he determine that product A is of better quality than Product B?

Do you deny that the thempark cap tries to deny the sandbox camp of mere existense based on the fact that it is not as popular? That seems to be the most repeated argument against sandboxes on this site. So I would like you to address that fact.

Ok lets address it. No I do not deny that fact,  I think it is true.

But that does not make Darkfall a fun game or a quality game nevertheless. If we want to evaluate Darkfall's quality, then we must compare it to other Sandbox Games.

Darkfall is a poor example of a sandbox ffa mmo. It is more of a persistent FPS. The exploits that plagued the game early on left the game crippled and scarred. The fact there is no skillcap makes it impossible fo ra new player to ever bridge the gap of the vets who most likely macro 24 hours a day to increase said skills. 

Exactly. And am very aware of its flaws, I have played Darkfall. Was in Closed beta for a while too as well as managed to get in the very rocky release heh. Gave it a fair shot.

But see what you just posted and what i just posted is considered Feedback, anyone not knowing anything about darkfall would read what we post and make a decision to try it or not based on our and many other's feedback.

And they may even come to the conclusion that since there seems to be so many negative feedback about it, and the fact that you just meantion it in your previous reply about the newbie zones being empty, that Darkfall is not a popular game.

The feedback people share, constitutes Qualification. negative feedback means that it is a low quality product. And while it would be true that Popularity doe snot necessarilly imply quality, usually the two go hand in hand unless the Quality of a given game or product has simply not been discovered yet.

Unfortunatelly it is not the case with Darkfall, it is well known by many because many have tried it, and qualified it.

So at this stage, Popularity does equal quality.

 

 

 

I disagree. I think DFO is a great FPS game. It's exactly the same as a progression based FPS. I start out unable to kill a veteran player with anything but a full clip to the face. THey can one shot me, and have much cooler/better gear. Darkfall is great for what it is. It's just not what it claimed to be. It's a Persistent world deathmatch/territory control game. To me that is not an MMO. If i didn't spend money on a PS3 I probably would have stuck with Darkfall as my FPS game.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

2/25/12 3:09:47 PM#36
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

It does not have to be heated debates, but in this age there is certainly feedback from customers, but lets not divert from the question shall we?

I asked Charas, assuming that he is an adult that may have done purchasses of something in his life, to explain how he goes about choosing product A versus product B. How does he determine that product A is of better quality than Product B?

Do you deny that the thempark cap tries to deny the sandbox camp of mere existense based on the fact that it is not as popular? That seems to be the most repeated argument against sandboxes on this site. So I would like you to address that fact.

Ok lets address it. No I do not deny that fact,  I think it is true.

But that does not make Darkfall a fun game or a quality game nevertheless. If we want to evaluate Darkfall's quality, then we must compare it to other Sandbox Games.

Darkfall is a poor example of a sandbox ffa mmo. It is more of a persistent FPS. The exploits that plagued the game early on left the game crippled and scarred. The fact there is no skillcap makes it impossible fo ra new player to ever bridge the gap of the vets who most likely macro 24 hours a day to increase said skills. 

Exactly. And am very aware of its flaws, I have played Darkfall. Was in Closed beta for a while too as well as managed to get in the very rocky release heh. Gave it a fair shot.

But see what you just posted and what i just posted is considered Feedback, anyone not knowing anything about darkfall would read what we post and make a decision to try it or not based on our and many other's feedback.

And they may even come to the conclusion that since there seems to be so many negative feedback about it, and the fact that you just meantion it in your previous reply about the newbie zones being empty, that Darkfall is not a popular game.

The feedback people share, constitutes Qualification. negative feedback means that it is a low quality product. And while it would be true that Popularity doe snot necessarilly imply quality, usually the two go hand in hand unless the Quality of a given game or product has simply not been discovered yet.

Unfortunatelly it is not the case with Darkfall, it is well known by many because many have tried it, and qualified it.

So at this stage, Popularity does equal quality.

 

 

 

I disagree. I think DFO is a great FPS game. It's exactly the same as a progression based FPS. I start out unable to kill a veteran player with anything but a full clip to the face. THey can one shot me, and have much cooler/better gear. Darkfall is great for what it is. It's just not what it claimed to be. It's a Persistent world deathmatch/territory control game. To me that is not an MMO. If i didn't spend money on a PS3 I probably would have stuck with Darkfall as my FPS game.

Well I cannot argue with this, because that is your personal opinion and percepion of what Darkfall is to you. It is your view, and it is ok if you disagree with my own personal view of Darkfall.

But neither you or I can disagree with the General view, which is at this point that Darkfall is a low quality MMORPG (no mater how you consider it this is how it advertises itself to be) that is not Fun, and it is quit unpopular.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  InFaVilla

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/10
Posts: 603

2/25/12 3:12:38 PM#37
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

Christopher Nolan is one such exception. Despite becoming mainstream, he still creates excellent movies such as Inception and The Dark Knight. 

In fact, I would go even as far as saying, that never before have so many excellent movies been so accessable to so many people ever since movies became truly mainstream. The internet played a huge role in this rapid development, but so did the illegal filesharing and sites like imdb.

The amount of people who now can be considered to be true movie connoisseurs, have increased incredibly much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1639

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

2/25/12 3:14:05 PM#38
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

It does not have to be heated debates, but in this age there is certainly feedback from customers, but lets not divert from the question shall we?

I asked Charas, assuming that he is an adult that may have done purchasses of something in his life, to explain how he goes about choosing product A versus product B. How does he determine that product A is of better quality than Product B?

Do you deny that the thempark cap tries to deny the sandbox camp of mere existense based on the fact that it is not as popular? That seems to be the most repeated argument against sandboxes on this site. So I would like you to address that fact.

Ok lets address it. No I do not deny that fact,  I think it is true.

But that does not make Darkfall a fun game or a quality game nevertheless. If we want to evaluate Darkfall's quality, then we must compare it to other Sandbox Games.

Darkfall is a poor example of a sandbox ffa mmo. It is more of a persistent FPS. The exploits that plagued the game early on left the game crippled and scarred. The fact there is no skillcap makes it impossible fo ra new player to ever bridge the gap of the vets who most likely macro 24 hours a day to increase said skills. 

Exactly. And am very aware of its flaws, I have played Darkfall. Was in Closed beta for a while too as well as managed to get in the very rocky release heh. Gave it a fair shot.

But see what you just posted and what i just posted is considered Feedback, anyone not knowing anything about darkfall would read what we post and make a decision to try it or not based on our and many other's feedback.

And they may even come to the conclusion that since there seems to be so many negative feedback about it, and the fact that you just meantion it in your previous reply about the newbie zones being empty, that Darkfall is not a popular game.

The feedback people share, constitutes Qualification. negative feedback means that it is a low quality product. And while it would be true that Popularity doe snot necessarilly imply quality, usually the two go hand in hand unless the Quality of a given game or product has simply not been discovered yet.

Unfortunatelly it is not the case with Darkfall, it is well known by many because many have tried it, and qualified it.

So at this stage, Popularity does equal quality.

 

 

 

I disagree. I think DFO is a great FPS game. It's exactly the same as a progression based FPS. I start out unable to kill a veteran player with anything but a full clip to the face. THey can one shot me, and have much cooler/better gear. Darkfall is great for what it is. It's just not what it claimed to be. It's a Persistent world deathmatch/territory control game. To me that is not an MMO. If i didn't spend money on a PS3 I probably would have stuck with Darkfall as my FPS game.

Well I cannot argue with this, because that is your personal opinion and percepion of what Darkfall is to you. It is your view, and it is ok if you disagree with my own personal view of Darkfall.

But neither you or I can disagree with the General view, which is at this point that Darkfall is a low quality MMORPG (no mater how you consider it this is how it advertises itself to be) that is not Fun, and it is quit unpopular.

I can agree to that. I think the problem with the sandbox mmo is there is no set definition like with themparks. We have a small slice of the consumer pie with sandbox already, but then we can't agree what flavor that slice should be. This does make designing a "popular" Sandbox MMO more of a challenge than a good themepark.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

2/25/12 3:17:18 PM#39
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by TruthXHurts
Originally posted by Suraknar
Originally posted by Charas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Valhama
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

Well, I was quite happy being the 'prey' in DF - I enjoyed doing PvE and turned the environment sound to max so I could hear people approaching.

 

However, I left because of the impending server wipe - I can't stand the Sword of Damocles over my head.

And i am not. No fun in just being a sheep. Much more fun for ME .. to just PvE and co-op with others in peace.

 

And I will never understand this mentality. It's so BORING without any sense of danger. There's nothing forcing you to be on alert constantly, to play smart, adapt to your environment and community in order to survive. You just play. Perfectly safe, all the time.

 

It's just dull to me.

 

And this is coming from a crafter at heart. I like combat, a bit, but building is where my heart lies. When I fight, it would be against evil players, not to grief. Yet I absolutely crave a true hardcore sandbox game. More than I could express. I just wish more people did too. It's no fun being in a minority without even the slightest hint that what you want is even being conceived of seriously.

Dull for you .. fun for millions others.

Sure, it is quite clear you do NOT understand FUN for others. Now we have established that.

Progression is fun. Overcoming PvE challenge is fun. Heck, people have fun going through SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN with practically no danger and instant reload.

So now you do not understand the milions of players who play FPS single player campaign too?

Man...is that how you get satisfaction out of life? By knowing that you share the same tastes as all the other sheep?

People keep bringing this up, because something is more popular, then it has to be far superior.

Generally speaking it's the exact opposite that's true, culture (and by extension entertainment) always declines when it becomes "mainstream". It has happened in all forms of art and entertainment in recent centuries.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

Humanity is by nature lazy and selfish, when you cater to those traits is when you achieve popularity.

But how do you generally decide what game represents quality or not?

I mean think about it, when you go out to buy anthing that yu may need, a TV, a Razor, a Gaming Console etc, how do you make your decision qhat are you looking for as information to help you in that decision?

 

I may be completely wrong about this, but I bet there aren't such heated debates on the Gillete site regarding electric or traditional razors.

 

I also doubt that the traditional razor camp is trying to deny the electric razor camps right to exist, and have further developments made because their type of razor is not the most popular.

It does not have to be heated debates, but in this age there is certainly feedback from customers, but lets not divert from the question shall we?

I asked Charas, assuming that he is an adult that may have done purchasses of something in his life, to explain how he goes about choosing product A versus product B. How does he determine that product A is of better quality than Product B?

Do you deny that the thempark cap tries to deny the sandbox camp of mere existense based on the fact that it is not as popular? That seems to be the most repeated argument against sandboxes on this site. So I would like you to address that fact.

Ok lets address it. No I do not deny that fact,  I think it is true.

But that does not make Darkfall a fun game or a quality game nevertheless. If we want to evaluate Darkfall's quality, then we must compare it to other Sandbox Games.

Darkfall is a poor example of a sandbox ffa mmo. It is more of a persistent FPS. The exploits that plagued the game early on left the game crippled and scarred. The fact there is no skillcap makes it impossible fo ra new player to ever bridge the gap of the vets who most likely macro 24 hours a day to increase said skills. 

Exactly. And am very aware of its flaws, I have played Darkfall. Was in Closed beta for a while too as well as managed to get in the very rocky release heh. Gave it a fair shot.

But see what you just posted and what i just posted is considered Feedback, anyone not knowing anything about darkfall would read what we post and make a decision to try it or not based on our and many other's feedback.

And they may even come to the conclusion that since there seems to be so many negative feedback about it, and the fact that you just meantion it in your previous reply about the newbie zones being empty, that Darkfall is not a popular game.

The feedback people share, constitutes Qualification. negative feedback means that it is a low quality product. And while it would be true that Popularity doe snot necessarilly imply quality, usually the two go hand in hand unless the Quality of a given game or product has simply not been discovered yet.

Unfortunatelly it is not the case with Darkfall, it is well known by many because many have tried it, and qualified it.

So at this stage, Popularity does equal quality.

 

 

 

I disagree. I think DFO is a great FPS game. It's exactly the same as a progression based FPS. I start out unable to kill a veteran player with anything but a full clip to the face. THey can one shot me, and have much cooler/better gear. Darkfall is great for what it is. It's just not what it claimed to be. It's a Persistent world deathmatch/territory control game. To me that is not an MMO. If i didn't spend money on a PS3 I probably would have stuck with Darkfall as my FPS game.

Well I cannot argue with this, because that is your personal opinion and percepion of what Darkfall is to you. It is your view, and it is ok if you disagree with my own personal view of Darkfall.

But neither you or I can disagree with the General view, which is at this point that Darkfall is a low quality MMORPG (no mater how you consider it this is how it advertises itself to be) that is not Fun, and it is quit unpopular.

I can agree to that. I think the problem with the sandbox mmo is there is no set definition like with themparks. We have a small slice of the consumer pie with sandbox already, but then we can't agree what flavor that slice should be. This does make designing a "popular" Sandbox MMO more of a challenge than a good themepark.

I agree with this too. :)

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  Suraknar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 808

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

2/25/12 3:33:01 PM#40

Having said that. I would like to add more in relation to the title of the Thread. That while the OP tried to demonstrate the merits of Full Loot Misconceptions using a Bad example (Darkfall). I personally am of the opinion that Full Loot Combined with FFA PvP can be a fun feature when it is done right, and I much prefer to have it as well in a Game that is made right for it.

I consider it is indeed a misconception to hnk automatically that just because a game has full loot, or if you will full loss combined with non concensual PvP, that this game is unfun.

Of cource this opinion comes from my own experience with Full Loot, to this day the only and single most MMORPG that I have played enjoyed and had long term fun with still remains Ultima Online, which had FFA PvP and Full Loot, and I played it for 5 years before seeking something more evolved and somewhat different, mainly a 3D Environment game which offered same Gameplay possibilities as UO. Since I began that journey to find that game, I have played many in all these years, some of which were fun for a while, yet none as captivating in the long term, I am still on the lookout for a comparable experience.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

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