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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Please, old gamers, read this and tell me if im the only one -.-"

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149 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3883

2/14/12 4:41:10 PM#141
Originally posted by Banaghran

In which universe half of what you say is even remotely possible and in which universe the other half already isnt offered by non-mmorpg games?

In which universe gear grind is self centered and skill grind isnt?

Flame on!

:)

When gear becomes 50%+ of your DPS/HPS, as it is in WOW, everyone becomes a loot w---e ...and they rush through s--t just for drops. If that wasn't boring enough, you just create a second set of gearing up by inventing a PVP-only stat or stats... double the fun!

 

As to the rest, maybe if you had an imagination? Example... your healing improves by 0.001 points per cast when you self heal or 0.01 per cast when you heal someone else... Your sword skill goes up at 5X the rate while grouped...and so on...

 

Want more? As long as your faction controls and defends objective X, which takes a minimum of 40 players or so to acquire (more if defended by a previous owne)r the skill-gains for everyone in your faction increases at +5% per hour of holfding the objective until it maxes out at increasing at 200%... all of that goes away if you loose the objecive.

 

You want your gear to have some + stats? Fine, cap it at a maximum of +20% vs. being naked...

 

I think my 12-yr-old could program all that.

 

I guess your universe must be pretty bland and tiny.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

2/14/12 4:56:51 PM#142
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kendane

 

 Part of it is some of the complaints about the Find Dungeon cross realm. You don't know the people on your server, and there may be a higher chance people stealing(rolling need or booting player through vote to get what they want). Now granted there were kill stealers in games like EQ. They were also generally outcast, at least on my server.

 

I would take LFD cross realm any day.

1) So i don't know people on my server. They are strangers ANYWAY and i have enough friends on my server. Is there really a need to know people on my server?

2) Yes, there is a higher chance that others can ninja loot. But the sword cut both ways. You can ninja too. The rules are symmetrical. I do not see that as a down-side. In fact, i do not have to play nice when i dont have too. It is a positive.

1) if you have enough friends you should feel no need to use any finder tool :)

2) the loot is just a cherry on the top, the annoying symetry is more in the area of pulling your weight, showing any interest in what is happening and general behavior. A single server is just a smaller pool where you can more easily remember the "annoying" and "not annoying" people, and maybe contact (or ignore) them directly.

Flame on!

:)

1) I do NOT want a large group of friends so that i have enough to form a group at any time i want to play. A few friends are enough. Too many is a hassle. And even if you have 10 friends, can you guarantee a full group any time you want to play? Plus, LFD teleport me & my friends to the dungeon. There is no reason not wanting it.

2) No need for a single server. If i don't like the group, i quit. Most people are bearable. I always kicked undergear people who cannot pull their weight. If a group is wiping on trash, i am out of here. In fact, it is EASIER with random people since you don't have to worry about they remembering you rage-quiting.

 

 

1) so you dont have enough friends afterall :) , remember, friendlist is not just for your buddies, but also people you just contact if you want to run a dungeon and do a specific activity.

2) fair enough, i guess, but i still feel that this does not really have a positive effect on the number of "non-annoying" people and the "community situation" overall

Flame on!

:)

 

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

2/14/12 5:14:41 PM#143
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Banaghran

In which universe half of what you say is even remotely possible and in which universe the other half already isnt offered by non-mmorpg games?

In which universe gear grind is self centered and skill grind isnt?

Flame on!

:)

When gear becomes 50%+ of your DPS/HPS, as it is in WOW, everyone becomes a loot w---e ...and they rush through s--t just for drops. If that wasn't boring enough, you just create a second set of gearing up by inventing a PVP-only stat or stats... double the fun!

 

As to the rest, maybe if you had an imagination? Example... your healing improves by 0.001 points per cast when you self heal or 0.01 per cast when you heal someone else... Your sword skill goes up at 5X the rate while grouped...and so on...

 

Want more? As long as your faction controls and defends objective X, which takes a minimum of 40 players or so to acquire (more if defended by a previous owne)r the skill-gains for everyone in your faction increases at +5% per hour of holfding the objective until it maxes out at increasing at 200%... all of that goes away if you loose the objecive.

 

You want your gear to have some + stats? Fine, cap it at a maximum of +20% vs. being naked...

 

I think my 12-yr-old could program all that.

 

I guess your universe must be pretty bland and tiny.

When skills become 50%+ of your DPS/HPS, everyone becomes a skillup w---e ...and they rush through s--t just for skillups. If that wasn't boring enough, you just create a second set of skilling up by inventing a PVP-only skill or skills... double the fun!

- 0.001 vs 0.01 , you already get better drop chance in group activities

Want more? As long as your faction controls and defends objective X, which takes a minimum of 40 players or so to acquire (more if defended by a previous owne)r the drop-gains for everyone in your faction increases by +5% by hour of holfding the objective until it maxes out at increasing at 200%... all of that goes away if you loose the objecive.

 

What you are really talking about is gradual slower progression, which has nothing to do with gear or skills, but the speed and amount of them aquired in one "action" or "run", both can be as you point out in wow (if you get say 10 skillups a cast just for fighting a boss monster) or more gradual (say token/material drops instead of whole items).

The gear % of dps is more tricky in other areas :)

As for the impossible, i was more talking about your focusing too much on positive reinforcement (is it called that?), and that it has very diminishing returns without anything negative.

Flame on!

:)

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3883

2/14/12 6:07:12 PM#144
Originally posted by Banaghran

What you are really talking about is gradual slower progression, which has nothing to do with gear or skills, but the speed and amount of them aquired in one "action" or "run", both can be as you point out in wow (if you get say 10 skillups a cast just for fighting a boss monster) or more gradual (say token/material drops instead of whole items).

The gear % of dps is more tricky in other areas :)

As for the impossible, i was more talking about your focusing too much on positive reinforcement (is it called that?), and that it has very diminishing returns without anything negative.

Flame on!

:)

Not really. What I'm talking about is fostering groups and communities vs. isolation and self-centered play.

 

If there's one thing most of us who are not very satisfied with the incesant copying of the WOW formula in MMOs mention as a common problem is the lac of a feeling of community compared to the MMO of old. What we don't agree on is the root cause of the decline in the quality of the community.

 

Many people talk about dungeon finders, solo quest content and many other things as the cause. My personal favorite ones to blame are battlegrounds and individual positive reinforcements...i.e. the obsession with and real need  for gear. WOW even incorporated a home grown gear-score system that forces you to meet a specific target before you can even queue for certain dungeons.

 

What I'm promoting is group and faction based positive reinforcements. Big difference there. I saw how they worked in Dark Age of Camelot (quite well) providing faction-wide buffs and access to a particular dungeon. It really wasn't until much later when DAOC introduced individual PVP rewards that things started to go downhill.

 

There's nothing wrong with positive reinforcement as long as you're reinforcing the right thing...in this case, community building. Trying to get people to group in order to gain individual rewards (drops) is wrong on so many levels. It of course leads to impatient dungeon runs with strangers...what else could it possibly lead to?

 

Take a look at Dominus if you haven't. It's an upcoming MMO with many ideas similar to what I've mentioned here. Their 3-sided conflict is based around building, defending and attacking bases and competing for one resource. Also The Secret World which has neither classes nor stats on gear.

 

Thankfully there are some out there trying to revitalize MMOs...hope it works out.

  LowFlyingHam

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/11
Posts: 98

2/15/12 9:18:43 AM#145
Originally posted by xpinkfl0ydx

Hi there,

 

its my first post on this forum, and english is not my first language so i apologize for any errors wich may be in my post.

 

so, why am I here? why am I writing this now instead of playing my fav. mmo? well thats kind of the reason... there is no!!

 

this thread will look as a QQ thread, well it kinda is.

-----

so here we go, today's mmos are far more popular that they were back few years ago when i started playing but allaround the quality just fell sooo drastcicly ... i feel like the only thing improving is the graphics and everything else just keeps gettin' worse

 

My basic points of complain are the following, wich in my eyes ruins today mmos and makes it just rpg with internet conection.

 

1. INSTANCED DUNGENS ... why? why? why?   why does it have to be instanced ??? odl sql dungens were part of the open world... sure the mobs were bit harder in there but so was the exp and lot (more rewarding) .. there were fights over the good grinding spots between guilds and alliances wich made it one of the most exciting aspects of the game. Instanced RUIN EVERYTHING = go in kill some mobs, then the boss = dungen cleared (gets boooriiing, or no?)  no competition no nothing, feels like rpg style sorry

2. LEVELING CURVE for me, THATS the reason all new mmos WILL fail... tera (2 weeks to max lvl = JOKE) thats why it failed in korea and japan ... i bet everything i have that the future of gw2 will be the same ... we all know leveling is a peace of cake there also .. the only thing it will show after a year of two is the pvp aspect of the game, but that will be enough just too keep the hard core pvpers in the game ... i know now i will get flamed by gw2 lovers but idc its my opinion

aion is doing good in korea cuz its the most grindy of them all.

wich makes me come to 2.0 leveling curve, WHY do they make arcade mmos in wich u reach max lvl in a month or two easy gaming ... why do they make lvl cap at all ???? it would be soooo more intresting that the exp would grow all the time even if the mobs give 0,0000000000001% exp 

at least there is some progression FOR GODS SAKE, wouldnt hurt if there is no max lvl !!!

now people again will say, omg you like grind omg noob get life bla bla bla ...

THE ONLY AND I MEAN THE ONLY reason why they have low lvl cap is so new players wich come after few months can still catch up with old players... thats all ... but still its no excuse!!!

everything is sooooooo easy nowdays, back in time in a game i played the whole allince had to give money for a frineds item cuz there were just 2 wepons of that grade on the whole server and that was 5 years after the game was released, TODAY??? 1 month max gear, max lvl, max everything ffs

 

people do get bored with this games and thats why nothing lasts more then a year before it starts to flop

 

todays mmo market is just to much focused on (wont even call them casual gamers)  people who play single player games all day but wanna chat also ...

---

so my mmo now would look like;

1. no leveling cap or at least a cap wich requiers a year or two grind

2. massive open world

3. no instance at all

4. max lvl gear should be very very very hard to obtain not that after few monts every noob walks around with max gear looking same as every1 else lolz

5. some castle siege, teritory wars and economyc/political play

6. (this point is very debateble since its pure subjective opinion) i dont like gunners replacing archers nowdays .. + enginers etc bljahhh (well i like asian style sorry ;D) neither do i like animal races but i can live without point 6 ^^

 

 

---

well nice last words,

today mmos = single play games with chat option

------

 

sorry for language again, hope at least some agree with me...

 

BRING GRINDERS BACK!!!!!!!

Instanced Dungeons = Have you ever considered the possibility that people don't want to constantly fight over things?  I'm not a fan of PvP in an MMORPG at all because it's usually dependant on gear, level, class and player numbers.  Granted I think there should be a hybrid/balance.  World of Warcraft has normals and heroics, heroics being the harder version of an instance.  Make the normal instanced, make the heroic non-instanced.  Not everyone has hours and hours and hours to spare to get one thing done simply because players are interfering.

Leveling Curve = Only a problem if the game has very little to do once you reach the level cap.  World of Warcraft does not have this problem if you like to raid.  I've raided in WoW for years, it's enjoyable and it's social being on Vent with 39 other people chatting and having fun(then 24, then 9 in my case).  If you have nothing to do once you reach the level cap and it's not a grinder with a ridiculous gap to max level then your game is fundamentally flawed.  Some games are grindy and have nothing to do while the leveling curve grows exponentially... some people would argue that the grind is the thing to do, but if there's nothing to do during the grind and nothing to do after it then the point is...? 

The main issue with massive grinds is that they get boring for many people.  To be fair, I think games allow you to reach the level cap too quickly nowadays.  WoW's leveling period is fairly short and there's so much in terms of quests and content that you inevitably skip a good portion of it unless you intentionally hold yourself back in lower areas just to finish everything... then again it's a good thing because starting a second character means you have the option of doing the things that you skipped on your first character and that adds replay value.

Progression is in the eye of the beholder, all you're looking at is level numbers and XP numbers.  Progression in WoW can mean climbing up the ranks in arenas and beating bosses in raids, it's not all about the levels and XP counts.  Complaining about gear that's too easy to get, well that's a farce too in WoW's case... granted raids are easier than they've ever been at this point but you still have to do the encounters and kill bosses to get the best stuff, and there are legendaries that require a fair bit of work to get.

WoW's a good example of how things work fine for non-grind.  The major problem with a lot of these new games coming out, both free to play and retail, is that they copy WoW's general game model but they don't add very much content to keep people busy.  Granted I'm talking about 6 or 7 years of operation over 3 expansions versus new games, but when you're instantly bored and without things to do at the level cap... well, either you're lazy and don't want to do what's still around or there isn't anything to do once you get there.

Now Playing: Mission Against Terror, Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls, League of Legends, Minecraft, and the piano. =3

Visit my fail Youtube channel(don't leave me nasty messages!): http://www.youtube.com/user/Mirii471

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20181

2/15/12 4:21:37 PM#146
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kendane

 

 Part of it is some of the complaints about the Find Dungeon cross realm. You don't know the people on your server, and there may be a higher chance people stealing(rolling need or booting player through vote to get what they want). Now granted there were kill stealers in games like EQ. They were also generally outcast, at least on my server.

 

I would take LFD cross realm any day.

1) So i don't know people on my server. They are strangers ANYWAY and i have enough friends on my server. Is there really a need to know people on my server?

2) Yes, there is a higher chance that others can ninja loot. But the sword cut both ways. You can ninja too. The rules are symmetrical. I do not see that as a down-side. In fact, i do not have to play nice when i dont have too. It is a positive.

1) if you have enough friends you should feel no need to use any finder tool :)

2) the loot is just a cherry on the top, the annoying symetry is more in the area of pulling your weight, showing any interest in what is happening and general behavior. A single server is just a smaller pool where you can more easily remember the "annoying" and "not annoying" people, and maybe contact (or ignore) them directly.

Flame on!

:)

1) I do NOT want a large group of friends so that i have enough to form a group at any time i want to play. A few friends are enough. Too many is a hassle. And even if you have 10 friends, can you guarantee a full group any time you want to play? Plus, LFD teleport me & my friends to the dungeon. There is no reason not wanting it.

2) No need for a single server. If i don't like the group, i quit. Most people are bearable. I always kicked undergear people who cannot pull their weight. If a group is wiping on trash, i am out of here. In fact, it is EASIER with random people since you don't have to worry about they remembering you rage-quiting.

 

 

1) so you dont have enough friends afterall :) , remember, friendlist is not just for your buddies, but also people you just contact if you want to run a dungeon and do a specific activity.

2) fair enough, i guess, but i still feel that this does not really have a positive effect on the number of "non-annoying" people and the "community situation" overall

Flame on!

:)

 

Let me rephrase:

1) I do NOT want "enough" friends to be able to fill groups any time any day. More friends is not better. They demand attention, chats, and sometimes doing stuff for them, or at least put them on a friend list. Why should i go to all that trouble if LFD is tehre? So .. yeah .. LFD is perfect.

2) Who cares about "community" or positive effect when i can have fun?

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

2/15/12 4:54:09 PM#147
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Let me rephrase:

1) I do NOT want "enough" friends to be able to fill groups any time any day. More friends is not better. They demand attention, chats, and sometimes doing stuff for them, or at least put them on a friend list. Why should i go to all that trouble if LFD is tehre? So .. yeah .. LFD is perfect.

2) Who cares about "community" or positive effect when i can have fun?

Well, there is nothing more to say, is there? You reply surely is sig-worthy :)

Flame on!

:)

  Bossalinie

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 629

2/15/12 5:06:24 PM#148

With the rise of Mumble, Vent, Steamchat, Facebook, and Twitter use with MMO's...it's amazing anyone types ingame anyways...

  ThaneSolus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/05
Posts: 33

Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.

2/15/12 10:11:39 PM#149

beside the grind, which should be in constructive non asian way, but still more challengin than what we have to day, the rest are spot on.

Until a medium size company with experience comes to make a good sandbox or hybrid mmorpg, nothing will change. The mmo games are made today are for the new generation of challenged people. Not all, maybe 90% lol.  Say thanks to consoles, and shitty corps like EA, Acti Blizz and so on.

The triple AAA studios, run by braindead suits, will still make the shame shiity clones for money, while braindead people will praise them for their shitty products.

You dont like my language? Well this my opinion. I get so many shits from this shitty forum moderators in last 7 years, that i am sick of it. Still, its good to see that not all people falled to an IQ of 50, and after 7 years here, i actually saw one of the few good articles on this site: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/12/feature/6100/Ultima-Online-The-Making-of-a-Classic-Part-1.html

 

 

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