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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Please, old gamers, read this and tell me if im the only one -.-"

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149 posts found
  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

2/11/12 11:40:10 AM#61
Originally posted by Starpower
Originally posted by FrostWyrm

Considering gamers have been complaining about the "dumbing down" of MMORPGs since it first began happening (Think EQ PoP/Luclin/LDoN), I would say you are mistaken, sir.

My post pretty much explain why that's the case

I kinda agree with Starpower. Its similar to the Frat Effect. You have to go through all that bullshit as a pledge because of the way your brain responds to stress by bonding with the other pledges. It would be nice if people could just decide to form strong bonds for no other reason than because they wanted to but it doesn't work that way.

  AdamTM

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 1395

I'M PUNCHING YOUR SALAD!!!!

2/11/12 11:43:49 AM#62
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by AdamTM
Originally posted by Damage99
Originally posted by AdamTM
its just you

WRONG.

 

I'm with you OP.

Ok fine, its just him and you then.

Wrong again.

Yes, people actually like stuff you dont like.

I love it when people don't get what im posting.

It makes me feel intelectually superior.

  FrostWyrm

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1028

2/11/12 11:45:41 AM#63
Originally posted by AdamTM
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by AdamTM
Originally posted by Damage99
Originally posted by AdamTM
its just you

WRONG.

 

I'm with you OP.

Ok fine, its just him and you then.

Wrong again.

Yes, people actually like stuff you dont like.

I love it when people don't get what im posting.

It makes me feel intelectually superior.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to get you through the day.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2899

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

2/11/12 11:45:56 AM#64


Originally posted by xpinkfl0ydx
<snip>
todays mmo market is just to much focused on (wont even call them casual gamers)  people who play single player games all day but wanna chat also ...
---
well nice last words,
today mmos = single play games with chat option
------


I think this is one of the best descriptions of many MMO players today.

I agree with much of what you wrote. MMOs used to have reasons to stay subbed. Now it is one big lootfest with better loot one of the ONLY reasons to pay the sub fee.

It's not really that leveling was a "grind" (this word has such a negative connotation), but rather that there were things to DO while leveling. Now, it is ALL about the end game, which to me means, "End of game. Period."

Games of today just do not have any substance anymore.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2899

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

2/11/12 11:49:01 AM#65


Originally posted by Timukas
And yes, I want bigger worlds and less instances. Technology has become so much better over the last 10-15 years but all MMOs have somehow gone backwards. Maybe it's because of suits that run MMO companies these days instead of guys creating their dream game. I don't know but I get more and more bored of this genre.


I think the instances came about from kill stealing and camp fights. Players could not get along so companies decided to separate us all. I blame players more than companies for all this instancing...

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  FrostWyrm

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1028

2/11/12 11:52:20 AM#66
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Timukas
And yes, I want bigger worlds and less instances. Technology has become so much better over the last 10-15 years but all MMOs have somehow gone backwards. Maybe it's because of suits that run MMO companies these days instead of guys creating their dream game. I don't know but I get more and more bored of this genre.



I think the instances came about from kill stealing and camp fights. Players could not get along so companies decided to separate us all. I blame players more than companies for all this instancing...

Another reason I think the word "epic" has lost its meaning. Epic =/= everyone can achieve it easily.

  albers

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/07
Posts: 163

2/11/12 12:07:33 PM#67

Lineage 2 to level up 1 level in end game takes months... Its f2p now.  And all you mentioned is there... I mean everything....

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

2/11/12 12:13:20 PM#68
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Timukas
And yes, I want bigger worlds and less instances. Technology has become so much better over the last 10-15 years but all MMOs have somehow gone backwards. Maybe it's because of suits that run MMO companies these days instead of guys creating their dream game. I don't know but I get more and more bored of this genre.



I think the instances came about from kill stealing and camp fights. Players could not get along so companies decided to separate us all. I blame players more than companies for all this instancing...

Another reason I think the word "epic" has lost its meaning. Epic =/= everyone can achieve it easily.

Everybody wants to be great, but if everyone is great, is anyone really great? Damn you paradox!

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

2/11/12 12:17:30 PM#69
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Timukas
And yes, I want bigger worlds and less instances. Technology has become so much better over the last 10-15 years but all MMOs have somehow gone backwards. Maybe it's because of suits that run MMO companies these days instead of guys creating their dream game. I don't know but I get more and more bored of this genre.



I think the instances came about from kill stealing and camp fights. Players could not get along so companies decided to separate us all. I blame players more than companies for all this instancing...

 

It also saves the company resources, with instancing you need just 1-2 areas for the players, without it, you need several dungeons of different "quality" (so that the clans camp and fight for only the best ones) with several zones for solo unclanned players.

As a unwanted side effect, players burn out faster with fewer areas...

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

2/11/12 12:28:21 PM#70

You know how to easily solve that issue? Dynamic content. No more static mob spawns.

  User Deleted
2/11/12 12:36:44 PM#71

The MMO design that the OP talked about has pretty much everything listed that would make me NOT want to play, and NOT have fun.

While I will agree that instancing should be done away with to a degree, and I would like a castle siege, wars, etc., I absolutely disagree with grinding levels for years... it's more boring than anything instancing or quick leveling has ever done for the genre.

If you're gonna force someone to grind for eternity to an endless level cap, or even one that takes years, you might as well just remove levels entirely. Maybe have skill points given based on achievements in the game along with gear, but not actually have a number attached to it. That way people who didn't start playing for a year after their friends won't have to ONLY GRIND for a year just to play with them... and when I say grind for a year, I mean possibly years, because that first friend wouldn't have just stopped because of his friend joining.

And in all honesty, I don't have the time to get to max everything in a month on ANY game at the moment. We don't all have infinite time to play like you do apparently. :P

I have no problem with certain gear being incredibly hard to obtain. That's for the people who want to be the best of the best, but there should always less exciting, slightly worse gear that is available to those who don't feel like putting in the time and effort on that, and want to do other things.

Ehh, I'm done. On a final note: MMO's today are NOT single player games with chat options. They're only single player games if you want to solo through everything to max level and then completely stop, or reroll. There are always going to be plenty of opportunities for social interaction, but it's up to the player if they want to participate. Some people are completely anti-social and prefer not to group, while others are grouping all the time. Oddly enough, it's those anti-socials who don't even try that end up complaining about MMO's being "single player with chat options."

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

2/11/12 12:51:46 PM#72
Originally posted by Cuathon

You know how to easily solve that issue? Dynamic content. No more static mob spawns.

Takes a toll on variability, if you have specific mobs in specific places you can give them specific atributes so that they are preferred by specific players, randomizing it would just push for homogenization or players hasting around the zone for specific spawns they can kill more easily than the rest.

Im not saying it cannot work, elaborate what you have in mind :)

Flame on!

:)

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

2/11/12 1:05:26 PM#73
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Cuathon

You know how to easily solve that issue? Dynamic content. No more static mob spawns.

Takes a toll on variability, if you have specific mobs in specific places you can give them specific atributes so that they are preferred by specific players, randomizing it would just push for homogenization or players hasting around the zone for specific spawns they can kill more easily than the rest.

Im not saying it cannot work, elaborate what you have in mind :)

Flame on!

:)

You would have to read my 35 threads about it for us to move beyond you citing basic concerns and me saying, oh I already thought of that for hours and hours in a row.

One specific comment, no haste. Having all players be able to haste and escape from any monster is one of the stupidest inventions of the game industry ever.

  User Deleted
2/11/12 1:10:33 PM#74

What people now call "grind", used to be called "playing the game".

 

@OP, no you're not the only one.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

2/11/12 1:20:32 PM#75
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Cuathon

You know how to easily solve that issue? Dynamic content. No more static mob spawns.

Takes a toll on variability, if you have specific mobs in specific places you can give them specific atributes so that they are preferred by specific players, randomizing it would just push for homogenization or players hasting around the zone for specific spawns they can kill more easily than the rest.

Im not saying it cannot work, elaborate what you have in mind :)

Flame on!

:)

You would have to read my 35 threads about it for us to move beyond you citing basic concerns and me saying, oh I already thought of that for hours and hours in a row.

One specific comment, no haste. Having all players be able to haste and escape from any monster is one of the stupidest inventions of the game industry ever.

Without a link its just rude :)

Anyways, as for haste you very well know that i meant hasting from one spawn to another looking for a specific mob, not hasting from combatting a monster (or do you expect ranged mobs to fire at you from the next zone?), that has its own pitfalls, as muds have tought some of us :)

Flame on!

:)

  Sora2810

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 566

2/11/12 1:32:11 PM#76

OP; there's two type of MMO gamers, those who play to have fun, and those who play to progress. Call it what you feel, but that's how players feel. Most 'casual' players are confused as to why legacy players bash every aspect of games they enjoy. This is because they like spending time, and getting rewards. Progression. They want to grind, even if it meant killing the same mob for half a year, they'll do it. 

Meaning; Legacy's love spending a lot of time in an MMO before they see anything close to max. 'Casuals' love any aspect of that game that feels fun and gives them an adreniline rush. Really, it's apples to oranges here. It's almost like saying these two groups play extremely different games.

Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  FrostWyrm

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1028

2/11/12 1:34:31 PM#77
Originally posted by Sora2810

OP; there's two type of MMO gamers, those who play to have fun, and those who play to progress. Call it what you feel, but that's how players feel. Most 'casual' players are confused as to why legacy players bash every aspect of games they enjoy. This is because they like spending time, and getting rewards. Progression. They want to grind, even if it meant killing the same mob for half a year, they'll do it. 

Meaning; Legacy's love spending a lot of time in an MMO before they see anything close to max. 'Casuals' love any aspect of that game that feels fun and gives them an adreniline rush. Really, it's apples to oranges here. It's almost like saying these two groups play extremely different games.

Just because you dont find a certain playstyle fun doesn't mean other people dont find it fun. "Fun" is different for different people.

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

2/11/12 1:50:04 PM#78
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Cuathon

You know how to easily solve that issue? Dynamic content. No more static mob spawns.

Takes a toll on variability, if you have specific mobs in specific places you can give them specific atributes so that they are preferred by specific players, randomizing it would just push for homogenization or players hasting around the zone for specific spawns they can kill more easily than the rest.

Im not saying it cannot work, elaborate what you have in mind :)

Flame on!

:)

You would have to read my 35 threads about it for us to move beyond you citing basic concerns and me saying, oh I already thought of that for hours and hours in a row.

One specific comment, no haste. Having all players be able to haste and escape from any monster is one of the stupidest inventions of the game industry ever.

Without a link its just rude :)

Anyways, as for haste you very well know that i meant hasting from one spawn to another looking for a specific mob, not hasting from combatting a monster (or do you expect ranged mobs to fire at you from the next zone?), that has its own pitfalls, as muds have tought some of us :)

Flame on!

:)


http://www.lordofthedawn.com/GameInsRef.php

That page has a link to all of my threads both here and at gamedev.net.

  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

2/11/12 2:03:16 PM#79
Originally posted by AdamTM
Originally posted by xpinkfl0ydx

Hi there,

 

its my first post on this forum, and english is not my first language so i apologize for any errors wich may be in my post.

 

so, why am I here? why am I writing this now instead of playing my fav. mmo? well thats kind of the reason... there is no!!

 

this thread will look as a QQ thread, well it kinda is.

-----

so here we go, today's mmos are far more popular that they were back few years ago when i started playing but allaround the quality just fell sooo drastcicly ... i feel like the only thing improving is the graphics and everything else just keeps gettin' worse

 

My basic points of complain are the following, wich in my eyes ruins today mmos and makes it just rpg with internet conection.

 

1. INSTANCED DUNGENS ... why? why? why?   why does it have to be instanced ??? odl sql dungens were part of the open world... sure the mobs were bit harder in there but so was the exp and lot (more rewarding) .. there were fights over the good grinding spots between guilds and alliances wich made it one of the most exciting aspects of the game. Instanced RUIN EVERYTHING = go in kill some mobs, then the boss = dungen cleared (gets boooriiing, or no?)  no competition no nothing, feels like rpg style sorry

2. LEVELING CURVE for me, THATS the reason all new mmos WILL fail... tera (2 weeks to max lvl = JOKE) thats why it failed in korea and japan ... i bet everything i have that the future of gw2 will be the same ... we all know leveling is a peace of cake there also .. the only thing it will show after a year of two is the pvp aspect of the game, but that will be enough just too keep the hard core pvpers in the game ... i know now i will get flamed by gw2 lovers but idc its my opinion

aion is doing good in korea cuz its the most grindy of them all.

wich makes me come to 2.0 leveling curve, WHY do they make arcade mmos in wich u reach max lvl in a month or two easy gaming ... why do they make lvl cap at all ???? it would be soooo more intresting that the exp would grow all the time even if the mobs give 0,0000000000001% exp 

at least there is some progression FOR GODS SAKE, wouldnt hurt if there is no max lvl !!!

now people again will say, omg you like grind omg noob get life bla bla bla ...

THE ONLY AND I MEAN THE ONLY reason why they have low lvl cap is so new players wich come after few months can still catch up with old players... thats all ... but still its no excuse!!!

everything is sooooooo easy nowdays, back in time in a game i played the whole allince had to give money for a frineds item cuz there were just 2 wepons of that grade on the whole server and that was 5 years after the game was released, TODAY??? 1 month max gear, max lvl, max everything ffs

 

people do get bored with this games and thats why nothing lasts more then a year before it starts to flop

 

todays mmo market is just to much focused on (wont even call them casual gamers)  people who play single player games all day but wanna chat also ...

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so my mmo now would look like;

1. no leveling cap or at least a cap wich requiers a year or two grind

2. massive open world

3. no instance at all

4. max lvl gear should be very very very hard to obtain not that after few monts every noob walks around with max gear looking same as every1 else lolz

5. some castle siege, teritory wars and economyc/political play

6. (this point is very debateble since its pure subjective opinion) i dont like gunners replacing archers nowdays .. + enginers etc bljahhh (well i like asian style sorry ;D) neither do i like animal races but i can live without point 6 ^^

 

 

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well nice last words,

today mmos = single play games with chat option

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sorry for language again, hope at least some agree with me...

 

BRING GRINDERS BACK!!!!!!!

its just you

No, it's really not.

  TheClifford

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/29/11
Posts: 15

2/11/12 4:39:39 PM#80

There is a definite lack of metrics/hard data to support any of the opinions of why things succeed and why things fail.  My opinion is that lack of variety comes from an important question that a lot of people don't consider...

Why would I want to play with all these douchebags?

My not-so-valuable experience over the past twenty years of gaming is that the majority of the loud mouthed, smart assed, over exaggerating, and downright cruel community members are these so called veterans that terrorize internet forums crying on about the good ol' days.  I am embarassed sometimes to share the same interests as a majority of the posters, so why do I want them imposed as a roadblock to my performance in game?  Should developers pay heed to the words of players who so blatantly ignore and insult the validity of others?

It seems to me that the state of the industry and its staleness stems from a festering community who feels entitled (because they pay $15 a month) above others (who also happen to pay $15 a month).  Its not even the financial commitment, but the time commitment.  For some reason if we participate in something, we feel we are experts in it at every level, and someone better listen to me right now, or I swear I'll just make myself louder and more insulting and obtrusive to the other players and the development staff!  Remember, if you do not hate the game, and you enjoy playing it, you are a fanboi and your opinions are void!  How can anyone expect a developer to take content/mechanics risks on concepts from a community rooted in childishness and hatred.

Ever read one of those threads on a message board about how to play so-and-so game with a controller for those who have physical handicaps or who prefer to play that way.  Those threads are ALWAYS riddled with flamebait and trolling, regarding a topic that could only enhance accessibility to players giving them no advantages over traditional keyboard/mouse players.  That is the kind of community that kills variety in MMOs.  If I was a developer I sure as hell wouldn't risk my rent money on those savages.

I started playing MMOs with Ultima Online though.  I never did Everquest, but I think I've played most every other MMO made since.  Communities can be the best and worst part of a game, and if developers have come to expect the worst, expect features that make it not as painful to interact under anonymity, while maintaining connectivity.

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