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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Please, old gamers, read this and tell me if im the only one -.-"

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149 posts found
  theedge767

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/05
Posts: 14

2/11/12 10:40:13 AM#41
Originally posted by vladww

Many old gamers agree with the OP, including me

I'm and old school gamer and I don't agree .  I like the old school Non instanced dugeons I would love for it to take a year to gain max level . It acutally all sounds really good however , I am glad there is alternatives since I now have a job and a young family so I get maybe an hour a night during the week and a couple hours on the weekend.

I no five or six gamers in the same boat and we are all kinda liking the whole quick mmo thing but thats just us we do wish we had the time to play the likes of L2 and EQ and stuff but we don't

I for one hope you guys get a game soon that fits your bill . Sadly I don't think you will since the entire MMO community is into the fast food stlye of mmo . When they ask you if you want fries with that what they are really saying is do you want to buy our cash shop crap. Do you want it super sized ? which means do you want to spend 25 dollars on a fancier mount .

  MMO_REVIEWER

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/09
Posts: 374

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. let it take us in new directions

2/11/12 10:48:21 AM#42

---//BEGIN_WALLOFTEXT

I'll say this. Most of the things you listed in your "wants" aren't due to suits leading MMO companies, because most of those suits are "Old gamers" themselves. It's actually due to the gaming community at present, and largely in part due to (you knew it was coming) World of Warcraft. As great of a model game as it is, it brought some unwanted attention to the MMO world. Now game developers can't just make their dream game;  they also have to cater to the lowest common denominator. I'd say about 50-60% of current MMO players don't have the patience to sit through weeks, days, months of grinding without rage quitting about something. Now I will agree and say that a bit of grind and rng makes you feel more accomplished about what you have,  but it wards off everything that the company is trying to reach out to. They put in massive amounts of grind there goes 60% of their market share. They put in lop-sided RNG...there goes another 20%! What's left for them? the 30%(a shrinking margin) of old gamers.

You can see how that could be very unappealing to a publisher like NCsoft or ENmasse or Frogster. NCSoft: "We can make 1 mirrion dollahs on this game...but its too grindy. So lets make it easy! Now we will make 4.5 mirrion!"

As for instancing...its not that tech has stepped forward and devs have stepped backwards...it's that what youre asking for is nearly impossible. Sure it was possible back then, but you have to take into account the recent changes. Graphics have taken HUGE leaps from the old school top down point and click (i.e. astonia 3, or everquest). So with SSAO, crepuscular rays casting, hard ray tracing, SSDO, global illumination, HDR+Bloom shading, cell shading, hard surface rendering, render2texture shaders, refraction and reflection, the list goes on...it gets a bit difficult to keep everything in the same world space. Also with the mountains of code and AI that are tossed into the world that only multiplies that difficulty. So what did they do...they made instances. This allowed them to create more elaborate worlds. Sure the worlds dont FEEL as large as they once did...but once in a while try looking at how much stuff is in these worlds. Quite a bit. Even with a game like Aion - most people will say "oh the world is about a 5 or a 6 on the BIG scale" when theyve realy only seen about half of it (i.e. they play elyos and never saw the asmodian side). Game worlds are still big...just broken into smaller pieces now.

---//END_WALLOFTEXT

MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.

  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

2/11/12 10:51:36 AM#43
Originally posted by theedge767
Originally posted by vladww

Many old gamers agree with the OP, including me

I'm and old school gamer and I don't agree .  I like the old school Non instanced dugeons I would love for it to take a year to gain max level . It acutally all sounds really good however , I am glad there is alternatives since I now have a job and a young family so I get maybe an hour a night during the week and a couple hours on the weekend.

I no five or six gamers in the same boat and we are all kinda liking the whole quick mmo thing but thats just us we do wish we had the time to play the likes of L2 and EQ and stuff but we don't

I for one hope you guys get a game soon that fits your bill . Sadly I don't think you will since the entire MMO community is into the fast food stlye of mmo . When they ask you if you want fries with that what they are really saying is do you want to buy our cash shop crap. Do you want it super sized ? which means do you want to spend 25 dollars on a fancier mount .

I honestly question whether this is true or if its the developers/publishers that are into the fast food style of mmo, and just dont give us any other option.

These MMOs are much easier to make, and much easier to profit on because they're so friendly towards non-gamers. In addition, many of us old gamers will still play them, even if we want something different, just to have something to play.

I really think that if someone took the time to make a well-polished, new, challenging/time consuming MMO that there would be a significant audience for it. Not just old gamers already looking for it, but new gamers that may discover they enjoy more of a challenge also.

  Theonenoni

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 273

2/11/12 10:56:52 AM#44

So the OP wants a game that rewards time spent over actual skill.  The only game out there that I know that can achieve what you want is Sacred 2 , or Diablo 2 which are neither MMOs.   MMOs are also supposed to be RPG. MMO itself isnt really a genre thats why its called MMORPG.    

The reason why its easier to level these days is because before  the game got pretty stagnant when you are killing the same MOB a million times just to level and you have already completed all the quests for your current level. 

-I am here to perform logic

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

2/11/12 11:05:25 AM#45
Originally posted by AdamTM
Originally posted by xpinkfl0ydx

Hi there,

 

its my first post on this forum, and english is not my first language so i apologize for any errors wich may be in my post.

 

its just you

Adam your response added nothing of value to the OP thread and it doesnt make you look cool.......even a little bit. 

It is not just him by the way.  All the OP points are valued and there are a metric crap ton of people that would agree.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

2/11/12 11:10:02 AM#46
Originally posted by Theonenoni

So the OP wants a game that rewards time spent over actual skill.  The only game out there that I know that can achieve what you want is Sacred 2 , or Diablo 2 which are neither MMOs.   MMOs are also supposed to be RPG. MMO itself isnt really a genre thats why its called MMORPG.    

The reason why its easier to level these days is because before  the game got pretty stagnant when you are killing the same MOB a million times just to level and you have already completed all the quests for your current level. 

Hmm way to just make stuff up.  I dont recall reading anything in his post that says what he wants for grinding other then some decent gear.  The games the OP speaks of do not in ANY way relate SKILL to REWARDS.  So your point makes no sense its just something that popped into your head and seemed cool to post.

If anything his point is more relevent in that respect, in today games very little effort is required for reward.  He is asking for a game that takes the coordination and SKILL of a group of people to accompish tasks.

  Paradigm68

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/11
Posts: 880

2/11/12 11:10:57 AM#47

I have no problem with specific dungeons being instanced.  I don't like the current dynamic where the entire game is instanced, every single game area is instanced and you can potentially never share a common area with another player who is on the same server as you.  And the zones aren't seamless, with loading screens each time you cross a zone. No feeling of being part of a world. MMO's have devolved from world simulators to just regular video games. Not that there is anything wrong with regular video games  but when you expect to be playing  simulator and the game is not a simulator, its a little disappointing.

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1104

2/11/12 11:14:14 AM#48

I don't mind instanced dungeons. The thing I hate is everything is geared towards raids. 

 

Its either a raiding game or a FFA pvp hot mess of a game. No other options.

  mrw0lf

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/05
Posts: 2311

2/11/12 11:17:28 AM#49
Originally posted by Starpower
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Starpower

All the features taken away from us is because we the gamers didn't want them there

 

I'd say they were taken away because the non-gamers didn't want them there.

There just happened to be a lot more non-gamers than gamers for companies to capitalize on.

Those non-gamers then became the modern-day "gamers" leaving us old gamers in a completely separate, and largely neglected, category.

No

 

It's pretty simple really. People back then were fed up with the then current systems of doing things. Everybody was a real gamer back then. MMOs weren't mainstream so those that played were fans of a relatively new genre. The majority back then were fed up with timesinks and every negative aspects of the games.

 

The whining and complaing came from both the top of the crop of hardcore raiders to the casual weekend warrior.

 

 

The people today looking back wishing it was 99' all over again, are the same people who complained back then. The only difference is they the gamers, had no idea what they were asking for. They thought they could retain all the positive aspects of a real MMO, while do away with all the bad. Problem was, a lot of those things walked hand in hand. People had fun in East Commonlands while selling stuff because there were no auction house, people developed tight bonds with eachother because death penalties were unforgiving forcing you to stick to people you knew could play. No xp quest system meant you sat still in one spot with a group for hours, while chatting and getting to know each other because you were bored.

All the negative crap people say they hope never come back spawned a whole host of positive things too you will never get back as well

 

This is one of the main reasons why developers shouldn't take directions from gamers. They often ask for things they don't see the full ramifications of.

^^This.

You can take specific areas from nearlly all games and expand them to what is missing. For instance, buffing in a game like SWG, the effort you needed to either goto to be able to give buffs or in a different way obtain them.

Nowadays in mmo's buffing is a matter of pressing a button you either macro for an hourly push or only once every session, no effort at all and as a result it has absolutely no value at all. To this day I still don't understand the principle of buffing yourself in new mmo's. When you break it down why not just have it as a constnt re-inforcement of your stats and anyone in your group? Why? because they want to make you feel like you've done something, despite the glaringly obvious fact you did fck all for it. Such a pointless fuction.

Nearlly all aspects of new to old comparisons run something like this. Something that isn't earned has no value, it's as simple as that. Follow that logic to its conclusion even outside of games and I think it shows much of the reasons for the developed world today.

-----
“The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  Skuall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 863

2/11/12 11:19:26 AM#50

instanced dungeons arent by itself  a bad idea .....

 

the last non-instanced game i played is FFXI ,and let me tell u , the endgame sucked because of that , boting was the norm , because claiming the boss vs 3-4 guild (LS) that were there ....was "fun"

 

grind......why no more grind games? thats simple , because nowadays ppl dont want to level for months , and mmorpgs now u level SOLO , u dont need exp leveling groups anymore  (thats the main issue for me in actual mmorpgs)

 

but yeah the OP got a point , mmorpgs are solo rpgs with chat

 

oh and mmropgs are now : ME ME ME!!!!! everyman for himself.

  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

2/11/12 11:20:17 AM#51
Originally posted by Theonenoni

So the OP wants a game that rewards time spent over actual skill.  The only game out there that I know that can achieve what you want is Sacred 2 , or Diablo 2 which are neither MMOs.   MMOs are also supposed to be RPG. MMO itself isnt really a genre thats why its called MMORPG.    

The reason why its easier to level these days is because before  the game got pretty stagnant when you are killing the same MOB a million times just to level and you have already completed all the quests for your current level. 

You realize this takes about an hour in modern-day MMOs, right?

Tastes may differ, but I'd rather kill the same monster a million times and still have new abilities to look forward to than to farm the same instances a million times for a peice of equipment that will never improve any further.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

2/11/12 11:21:44 AM#52

im all for the open world content and all that but im gonna get this out of the way.

 

GRINDING IS BORING. seriously. do you quake with excitement with the thought of killing the same mob for the next 3-6 hours. if your life is so terribly dull that it is appealing to you, seek mental help.

 

alot of those ideas are good but bringing back grinding is a horrible idea. now im all for high level caps, if you have the quest and dungeon support to continue it, it can be carried by story and plot progression. but if your thinking that the best way to deal with leveling is mob grind again. please go play runescape, get out of here.

 

I prefer the idea of TSW where you have no level but a good 500 skills + expansion skills + missions and quest types to play with. with that many skills in the game by the time you go all pokemon on em more will be released. 

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

2/11/12 11:25:56 AM#53

Originally posted by LadyNoh

GRINDING IS BORING. seriously. do you quake with excitement with the thought of killing the same mob for the next 3-6 hours. if your life is so terribly dull that it is appealing to you, seek mental help.

 

 

Originally posted by Shivam
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by AdamTM
Originally posted by Damage99
Originally posted by AdamTM

Wrong again.

Yes, people actually like stuff you dont like.

A simple concept which is so hard to understand for some people.

 

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

2/11/12 11:30:40 AM#54

don't get me wrong im a open minded person and all. that just seems like wasteing time. if somone can give me a explanation on how it is fun then please by all means im willing to listen.

 

i really dont care if its a scientific response or a personal one. im really interested in why you would find something like that fun.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Spiider

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/15/05
Posts: 450

2/11/12 11:39:56 AM#55

I agree with OP. But OP seems to forget that we ("old gamers") are not gaming world majority any more. Companies make games to appeal to masses and make money and not to satisfy a small group of those who want more than just a brainless grind.

Sorry brother, but this is how it is. As long as Farmville has more players than all sandbox mmos combined there will be no games you would want to play.

No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  Talin

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 825

You only live once... make it count!

2/11/12 11:46:11 AM#56

Dungeons should come in two flavors - open and instanced, and you should have to select that you want an instanced dungeon. Let the WOW lovers of the world play with their own five-man experience and have fun. I loved open dungeons in EQ, and had even more fun with them in DAOC. Instances are great for specific purposes, such as completing quest objectives, but they are an extremely anti-social experience. Dungeons should be fraught with mobs, "trains", and other players buffing, helping, and sometimes stealing your spawns. Give players an option - flexible design is always better.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

2/11/12 11:48:48 AM#57

i can agree with that. but you can't make one give out better loot than the other or anything like that though. the second you do that then suddenly you have a unbalence.  once A is better than B then B wont be used. same thing in reverse.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

2/11/12 12:03:17 PM#58
Originally posted by LadyNoh

don't get me wrong im a open minded person and all. that just seems like wasteing time. if somone can give me a explanation on how it is fun then please by all means im willing to listen.

Value: MMORPGs feel very disposable to me these days. I really dont like hopping from one game to another after reaching max level in one or two short months. To myself, and probably many others, gaming is a hobby, not just something to pick up and put down. I could compare it to being a movie watcher vs being a "film buff".

Accomplishment: Things that take more time feel more like an accomplishment for me. Forgive me for using so many analogies, its just part of how I like to describe things, but if WoW = buying vegetables at the market, EQ would have been growing your own garden. Yes, it takes longer to reach the same end, but its a much more satisfying experience. While you might argue "games are meant for enjoyment, not to be work", but gardening requires a lot of work, and a great many people actually do enjoy it.

Social: One of the best things about MMOs, in my opinion, is the opportunity to meet all kinds of people that may be outside your own social and geographical circle. When the game forces you to group up, the odds of making friends, allies, and bonding with fellow gamers increases. With everyone being able to solo to max level, and in such a short amount of time, a lot of opportunities are missed because most players will instinctively take the path of least resistance to advance.

No Rush: They say getting there is half the fun. As far as MMOs go, I think its a lot more than half. People dont bother to dream if they have everything they could ever want. This is why so many wealthy people become depressed easily. I like having something to look forward to. The proverbial "carrot on a stick" I suppose. I personally don't want to "win the game" when it comes to MMOs. The longer there's something else to do, the better.

  Dvalon

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/10/07
Posts: 320

2/11/12 12:09:39 PM#59

I agree, raid's should be open world, and the game should just instagib anyone trying to interfear with a raid in progress, its simple enough once a group attacks a boss they get a debuf that reflects 100% pvp damage back on their attacker, and the boss gets a debuff that says if anyone attacks him thats not part of the raid group hes tagged to, they get insta killed with some fire bolt or something.

Its a fullproof system.

 

I would also say that the level cap is fine, its the time taken to get to the level cap thats a joke, I agree for any game the time taken to level cap should be at least 6 months, and upto but no longer than a year, anything less than 6 months means players consume content far to fast get bored easily and end up back in just another grind for dungeon queues.

 

To be honest I am looking forward to diablo 3, level cap exists and the leveling I suspect will be quick but there are no raids to suck you in, so even at the level cap you will just be continuing to do the same thngs you did while leveling, it wont feel like you have capped out at all.

 

Bring on Archeage.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

2/11/12 12:12:53 PM#60

I can agree with that. serisouly. from what i can tell i was taking grinding out of context. it may be old fashioned of me but when i heard Grind i think about standing in a location and killing the same mob alone over and over and over. Repeats on killing the same boss, different story. Boss fights can change, because the players them selves can try something new or screw up.

 

i love grouping up. im actually part of a guild from the old Heroes of the Three Kingdoms, PWI. The game recently came back from a Indonesian Publisher and is playable now. i actually followed the guild to a game where i cant understand the language what so ever, but i can talk with my guild and thats enough for me.

 

sense of accomplishment. well yeah, but i dont think hitting max level should be your accomplishment. as we all know when you hit max level in a MMO the game ISNT OVER. there is still months worth of things to be done. WoW saw this and reacted badly allowing you to BUY your endgame gear. TSW is looking better by having no levels, but a ton of skills and achivements that actually do things. (if you get all the skills in a certan deck you can unlock new cloths.) DCUO did it well by having achivements tied to your skills. so after you hit max level you can continue to buy skills via doing achivements.

 

Also if anyone says they are Max level in LOTRO i laugh at them and tell them they probubly arent even half way yet since they are just getting to Rohan now.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

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