Originally posted by Konfess

I had been watching the SWTOR forums since 08 and had seen recount come up in 11, as something that the community didn’t want. I’m not saying that the discussion was one sided, or that the dislike for the recount tool was unanimously supported. But its use was spot lighted as what is wrong with WoWs community.

I followed for quite a while to and I do also realize that it's only something that came up more or less after the game was released in the general World of Warcraft population got involved with the game. I'm not saying there are 100% directly related but it's certainly is an interesting anecdote.

Originally posted by GMan3

    Short answer - No.  Long answer - Only the lazy and inept need tools like this to play a game.  Try actually learning how to play your character instead of Power Leveling and the tools become useless.

That's a big part of it to is the people that just want to hit 50 as fast as they possibly can. All the while they never really understand the fundamentals of their class. So in essence when they get to the endgame content they've really only crippled themselves.

Originally posted by GMan3

    Short answer - No.  Long answer - Only the lazy and inept need tools like this to play a game.  Try actually learning how to play your character instead of Power Leveling and the tools become useless.

Yep. I wonder how much MMO burnout is caused by over familiarity with their systems. I mean they all boil down to the same thing, even if you change the quest structures or combat systems. It's still "making numbers bigger, making bars longer" and Top Trumps combat (not sure if you have Top Trumps outside of the UK, might have to Google it to see where I'm coming from with that ;) ).

Games are so much more fun when you play them instinctively. It's a shame that we've become habitually disconnected from that, and lost the connection with what they could, should and strove to be once.

Eh...I don't know. Some posters have a point since this game does employ the "enrage factor". Frankly though since this game plans on incorporating a personal recount item I really don't see what the big deal is.

That and from what i have seen it is't that difficult to gear up or itemize in this game.

Add ons like Recount suck. All they do is take away the fun from players that you know, play games for fun, and turn it into number crunching. This in turn brings out the asshats that rely solely on those numbers.

Shit like Recount is one of the worst things to happen to MMOs ever.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Eh...I don't know. Some posters have a point since this game does employ the "enrage factor". Frankly though since this game plans on incorporating a personal recount item I really don't see what the big deal is.

That and from what i have seen it is't that difficult to gear up or itemize in this game.

It really isn't all that difficult it does actually just give them a reason to explain why their group is failing. Can a saddle people say that World of Warcraft doesn't rely on add-ons considering the fact that guilds that don't use add-ons have to identify themselves as specialty Guilds.

Next, you'll argue that GearScores were a good thing as well.  Like many others have said, parsing data like this can be useful but often is used by people to exclude others.  When in a game, it should be just that... a game.  If a game were to employ better boss mechanics other than speed dps this would be less needed.

Originally posted by Ikeda

Next, you'll argue that GearScores were a good thing as well.  Like many others have said, parsing data like this can be useful but often is used by people to exclude others.  When in a game, it should be just that... a game.  If a game were to employ better boss mechanics other than speed dps this would be less needed.

I'm not at all arguing for the use of a recount  addon. I'm actually just trying to get input from you guys and what you think about it. I personally am against it, but I can also understand why people would feel the need for such a feature in the game.

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Originally posted by dollada06

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Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Eh...I don't know. Some posters have a point since this game does employ the "enrage factor". Frankly though since this game plans on incorporating a personal recount item I really don't see what the big deal is.
That and from what i have seen it is't that difficult to gear up or itemize in this game.

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It really isn't all that difficult it does actually just give them a reason to explain why their group is failing. Can a saddle people say that World of Warcraft doesn't rely on add-ons considering the fact that guilds that don't use add-ons have to identify themselves as specialty Guilds.

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MMO game should just ban addons. Players should watch the enemy infront of them and

predict what the mob boss going to do thru its animations, instead of looking at the ui addons 80% of the time. 

A game doesn't need addons.  I also don't think Blizzard relies on addons.  Playing the game from vanilla I can tell you the game was working just fine when I didn't use any.  I still know people that don't use any addons.

However, having used addons for the past couple of years I can say that addons do improve the game.  Think about it like this: If there was no need to improve, then there would be no improvement. Look at smart phones and how they utilize apps.  Its the same concept.

Blizzard probably would have implemented Recount by now but they knew that most people do not want to see themselves getting destroyed repeatedly on healing, tanking, or dps.  Leave it as an addon.  Let the raiders who know how to utilize it properly do the extra work to read and analyze its information (and the general DPS dick heads YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!)

Also things like quest helper, target symbols, ability proc warnings, class color health bars - addons like that were so helpful to players who had them that Blizzard decided it was a good idea to implement them and they were right - players like these features.  You don't need to use them though.

I wholeheartedly agree that addons improve a game, not hinder it.  I will also have to politely disagree with loke666 and say that immersion is a state of mind and may be felt by players playing with addons and may never be felt by players playing without addons.

Originally posted by TheHavok

A game doesn't need addons.  I also don't think Blizzard relies on addons.  Playing the game from vanilla I can tell you the game was working just fine when I didn't use any.  I still know people that don't use any addons.

However, having used addons for the past couple of years I can say that addons do improve the game.  Think about it like this: If there was no need to improve, then there would be no improvement. Look at smart phones and how they utilize apps.  Its the same concept.

Blizzard probably would have implemented Recount by now but they knew that most people do not want to see themselves getting destroyed repeatedly on healing, tanking, or dps.  Leave it as an addon.  Let the raiders who know how to utilize it properly do the extra work to read and analyze its information (and the general DPS dick heads YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!)

Also things like quest helper, target symbols, ability proc warnings, class color health bars - addons like that were so helpful to players who had them that Blizzard decided it was a good idea to implement them and they were right - players like these features.  You don't need to use them though.

I wholeheartedly agree that addons improve a game, not hinder it.  I will also have to politely disagree with loke666 and say that immersion is a state of mind and may be felt by players playing with addons and may never be felt by players playing without addons.

I agree with just about everything that you said except for the fact that blizzard doesn't rely on add-ons. I feel that they do based on the fact that if you look at all their raids they've created essentially since the burning Crusade there are technical things within them that almost rely on having mods like bigwigs or something to the effect. Blizzard really has relied on their own community for doing the bulk of the work when it comes to fine-tuning their game. They've pretty much put the groundwork in place but ever since then they haven't really done much as far as interface tweaking has gone. They've implemented a lot of other great features like the battle.net and all that sort of stuff. But I definitely disagree that they don't rely on add-ons.