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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » The replayability on this game is quite awful.

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245 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15983

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

2/06/12 2:27:40 AM#101
Originally posted by Requiamer

If something upset me during beta it was 2 stuff: the team claiming loud their game had great replayability and character customization. Can you be more clueless and not be aware of it?

This is why I wish we could have spoken during beta (we being those of us in beta). Because pre-release there was a bunch of talk about replayability within the discussions here. Many did expect 200 hours of purely unique content for each individual class. Most ignored the many postings of DE's clarification of the topic -(IE)- that 200 hour estimate included all things a person would be doing on the norm, FP's, Travelling times, class quests, a bit of PVP or "wandering" etc... It didn't account for those power-leveling through the game, nor did it mean each playthough would be completely unique (the fabled 1600 hours of unique questing)

As another poster said it basically is the norm for just about every (themepark) MMO some unique starting areas, with everyone eventually being lead to the same areas. Does it offer less choice than some other MMO's? Yep, but it also offers more unique content than some others. It is what it is...

As I pointed out earlier there are ways to save content for other play-throughs, you don't have to do it all in one, I've not done a single FP yet as an example, and only a handful of side quests or heroics, some planets I only did my class quests on such as Tatt, Hoth, Balmora, Hutta and alderran, I PVPed for my levels during those segments and did my class quests as well as PVP and Space daily quests. That leaves a ton of content for me to see with other chracters of the same faction, not to mention rolling IMP and doing the same thing.

It's all in how you play really, and what you chose to do, I had fun thus far, and I haven't felt like I've been grinding, so it's all good on my end. Your mileage may vary.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1146

2/06/12 5:31:24 AM#102
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

I have never ever played a AAA mmo that had this bland planet design or had such heavily phased linear zones. It does'nt take much to make it show the dev's put some work into the zones and I don't get the feeling in this game at all

I completely disagree, to me TOR's planets actually look as though an artist designed them, compared to so many games that use copy and pasted terrain over and over again.

I see the same building designs, interiors and caves over and over again, even on different planets.

  GMan3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/27/10
Posts: 2239

2/06/12 5:36:30 AM#103
Originally posted by tixylix
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by DJJazzy

So you repeat quests and that makes it different than all of the other mmos how?

the fact that they designed the planets to be so linear so phased so uninspired you have no desire to actually go through them multiple times/

Right because all other MMO content is so insprired?

I have never ever played a AAA mmo that had this bland planet design or had such heavily phased linear zones. It does'nt take much to make it show the dev's put some work into the zones and I don't get the feeling in this game at all

I completely disagree, to me TOR's planets actually look as though an artist designed them, compared to so many games that use copy and pasted terrain over and over again.

I see the same building designs, interiors and caves over and over again, even on different planets.

    He did say "planets" not buildings.  To expect every building and every interior map to look completely different in every building is a little unrealistic.  Don't believe me?  Go drive through a development some time.  Caves are a little different, but not from a developmental design stance.

    Also, keep in mind that this "civilization" has been around for thousands of years.  Leaves a lot of time for architectual styles to blend.

"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  noncley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/12
Posts: 638

2/06/12 6:14:27 AM#104
Originally posted by DJJazzy

Seems about the same as any other mmo to be honest. 

I disagree. You can probably level four characters in WoW and not fight the same creature twice.

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1839

2/06/12 7:27:02 AM#105
Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Sounds like the OP is a completionist.  If you are a completionist, then yes, the replayability of this game can be bad.  If you are actually smart about how you level your characters, this game's replayability is actually very good.

There are a TON of quests in this game.  More than you would ever need to do on your way to level 50.  And I'm not talking about class quests, I'm talking about world story arcs and side quests.  If one were to do all of these, you'd literally be 5-6 levels over every single planet's level range from about level 20 on.  I know, because one of my friends did it like this.  On the empire side, by the time he finished Balmorra's bonus quests, he was already about 5 levels above where he needed to be to start Nar Shaddaa, and he continued that kind of over-levelling throughout the entire game.  

Are you going to be going to the same planets in the same order?  Yes, unfortunately.  This is my major gripe with the way the game is designed and I hope that Bioware stays true to their word to add more planets and content for solo-oriented people and altaholics.  However, if you are smart about how you quest, and are willing to leave quests on the table, then you can literally have about half your quest content be compeletely different on your next character.  

Obviously, if you feel obligated to complete every single quest on every single planet, then yeah, for now, it will get mundane when you roll alts.  But if you are willing to leave quests and entire quest hubs on the table your first couple of characters through, there is no reason you should be doing the same content over every time.  Best advice I can give, until they start giving us some alternative levelling paths, which I'm confident they will do, is to just pick a couple of quest hubs out per zone to do the quests in, concentrate on class storylines, utilize your space combat dailies and pvp dailies every day.  Try to fit in a flashpoint when it's available, and utilize bonus quest chains on certain planets in order to spend LESS time on the planets you are too familiar with, and you should have no problems with redundancy.  

For example, I did not like questing in Nar Shaddaa.  I'm just not a big fan of indoor questing.  I like being outside.  So I went ahead and completed the bonus series on Balmorra so that I could skip large sections of Nar Shaddaa on my first character. In fact, by the time I hit Nar Shaddaa, I was nearly level 23, so I only had to do the class quest line and a few side quests there before moving onto Tatooine.  Then for my next alt, I skipped the Balmorra bonus series and did more of the quests on Nar Shaddaa, but still was able to skip entire quest hubs, which I can now do on my third alt if I choose.  

 

On my Scoundrel, I have done 100% of the quests and bonus quests on each planet. I'm at the exact lvl where I should be for the planet I'm on right now. I do each FP once when I reach the level for them, and I'm Rank 10 Valor. Maybe it's because I can stealth through most mobs, so I don't kill nearly as many trash mobs on the way to my objective, but I can't see how anyone can lvl 5-6 levels above a planets content. Currently I'm doing the Alderaan bonus series, which is this next step of my progression. After that is Belsavis, which starts at lvl 42. I'm lvl 41 right now and my quests on Alderaan are lvl 41.

  Kalmarth

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 458

2/06/12 7:41:44 AM#106

Glad you didnt play vanilla wow, because its all the thing you complain about, once past the starting area, you progress though the same areas with each toon you make all the way to max, and if you swap faction you still do the same.

ToR is still in Vanilla stage, once they get a few expansions going and get more planets up there will be more choice, but its a game just getting started.

Anyone want to help me build a time machine and take people back to the old games eq, eq2 and wow? I'm sure it would be an education to this must have it now generation.

  namelessbob

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/04
Posts: 1512

"The internet is a series of tubes."
-Ted Stevens

2/06/12 7:47:38 AM#107

I just don't even understand the OPs original post as he played WoW. That game was horrible on its replayability. Atleast the main storyline changes for every character in SWTOR. I mean honestly SWTOR is leaps and bounds and years ahead of WoW. Not sure if OP is serious or not.

  matraque

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 1444

2/06/12 7:57:28 AM#108
Originally posted by gestalt11

There was some debate before the game released about how replayable the game is, ie. by my definition how fresh and interesting a second or third character is.

 

I have played 4 characters past level 20 on the same faction.  I have played to characters past level 30 and one past level 40.

 

The replaybability is terrible especially if your first character was a stealth class that can skip fights.  Every single character will wind up doing the exact same quests in the same area almsot 90% of the content will be shared extactly the same.  The only 10% difference is the class quests of which you will do roughly 1-2 per level after leve 15 o 16.

 

If you solo the game and stealth past some fight you must do almost every single quests that exists.  If you solo and don't skip you will need to do about 90% of the quests.

Obviously if you grind instances you may do less or possibly none at all.

 

The only variation that exists is in light/dark side choices/companion reactions.  And in the end simply by playing one light side and one dark side you have basically seen all there is to see except the small portion of quests that is the class quest (which is far too slow to develop to justify griding through the same quests a third time).  Compaion reaction is novel and all but in the end only matter from a roleplaying perspective anyway as gifts is the way to go if you have seen it all before.  And frankly that is extremely meager picking unless you are really into the role play part.

Seems like you a playing every mmo out there.

At least this one, you can say there's 8 different stories. 

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  BadSpock

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

2/06/12 7:59:13 AM#109
Originally posted by udon

Honestly what more would it have taken to keep you from complaining?  Because I have a hard time seeing any game company releasing a new MMO with more content than what SW:TOR has today.  It's hands above what EQ2, WoW, LOTR, etc. had at launch.

I think a lot of people got "sold" on Bioware's statement that each class had about 200 hours of story.

It took me about 6 days play time to reach 50 on my first toon, do the math that is over 200 hours.

Have a couple of alts, a lot of repeat content.

Except, of course, the Sith side all pretty much unique when compared to Republic side.

So is it the most content of any MMO released? At release, I'd have to agree - hands down.

But is it enough and is it what people were expecting?

I think people had unrealistic expectations (for a MMO? No way!) :)

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  monarc333

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/16/07
Posts: 606

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2/06/12 9:24:47 AM#110

I never make alts. In 10 years, I've never made an alt. This game is the FIRST game where I've made alts, purely for the class quests and different class mechanic. I'm enjoying the different class quests and different companions very much. I want to make a jedi knight JUST to get scourge. I want to make an operative, just for the bond like story. I want to make a trooper for that military style class quest. So replayability for me is through the roof.

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4114

2/06/12 9:33:16 AM#111
Originally posted by Cthulhu23
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by fiontar

I think the point is that the PVE leveling path is very linear, with few alternative paths due to lack of redundant content. (One big reason WoW was such a success was that even in Vanilla, there was plenty of redundancy, which allowed you to chart a leveling path through different combinations of zones that allowed you to have fresh content for a number of alts before you had seen almost everything). Also, as noted, the world zones in SWTOR are just incredibly "blah". In good MMOs, the zones will be "cool" enough that you want to play through them more than once. Not the case for many people here with TOR.

Of course, there is also the matter of the "distinct, class based story lines". Many were led to believe that there was over a hundred hours (or even two hundred hours) of story content unique to each class, but that just is not the case. Much of the story content is shared by the other classes of the same faction and the amount that is actually unique to a class is fairly sparse. So, even though you might have 20 hours of new story for an alternate class, you have way too much in the way of "re-runs", which for many make subsequent alt experiences feel like retreads. (This also really highlights how  linear the game is. Any illusion of meaningful choice goes out the window when you play an alt and realize that the non-class specific content plays out the same, even if you make very different choices).

It's nice to have alternatives to leveling, like PVE and the space mini-game, as well as the small group instances, but in my own experience, these were all pretty lackluster and were not up to par with even mediocre MMORPG competition. If the developers were relying on these things to extend the game experience and enhance replayability, they should have done a much better job with the design and implimentation.

well said.  this is my largest issue with the game, personally.  Everyone else in this thread saying "and this is different from every other MMO how?" needs to wake up and see the obvious difference.  If I can take 4 characters to cap in Lotro, EQ2 and WoW and have a COMPLETELY different pve questing experience, yet I cannot do this in SWTOR, I would think this would be fairly obvious, even to the most staunch fanboy out there.

You can't do it in Lotro, either.  The levelling path through Lotro is the same for every single character you have.  There are some overlaps in zones, but for the most part, you are still doing the same quests over and over again.

EQ2 and WoW have been around for a long, long time, and both games have a ton of content, much of which wasn't there at launch either.  I don't think it's fair to write off TOR just yet in terms of replayability as it pertains to the linear quality of the levelling path.  Bioware has already stated they plan to release new planets for solo content to give people options for playing alts.  At this point, I'll take them at their word.  

Again.  No.  Now I'm only basing this off of my own experience with multiple characters in both LOTRO and WoW.  With WoW, vanilla I could STILL level up more than 2 characters and not see one identical quest if I so chose.  In Lotro, it's a little less "large" but I remember skipping lone lands completely on my RK and then skipping most of North Downs on my hunter.  I remember skipping Evendim on my LM, and so on.  

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  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

2/06/12 9:33:37 AM#112
Originally posted by gestalt11

The replaybability is terrible especially if your first character was a stealth class that can skip fights.  Every single character will wind up doing the exact same quests in the same area almsot 90% of the content will be shared extactly the same.  The only 10% difference is the class quests of which you will do roughly 1-2 per level after leve 15 o 16.

 

If you solo the game and stealth past some fight you must do almost every single quests that exists.  If you solo and don't skip you will need to do about 90% of the quests.

So...how is this different than any other modern day MMO?

  elocke

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Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4114

2/06/12 9:39:47 AM#113
Originally posted by Kalmarth

Glad you didnt play vanilla wow, because its all the thing you complain about, once past the starting area, you progress though the same areas with each toon you make all the way to max, and if you swap faction you still do the same.

ToR is still in Vanilla stage, once they get a few expansions going and get more planets up there will be more choice, but its a game just getting started.

Anyone want to help me build a time machine and take people back to the old games eq, eq2 and wow? I'm sure it would be an education to this must have it now generation.

Are you just purposely forgetting all the leveling options in WoW at launch?  Let's say I rolled a Night Elf hunter.  I take him from the darnassus area->darkshore->ashenvale->stonetalon mountains->desolace->feralas->thousand needles->tanaris->un'goro-> and at this point I had to go over to eastern kingdoms and I could choose between eastern plaguelands, western plaguelands and burning steppes to take me the final 10 levels to 60.  That's one character.

I could roll same faction, a dwarf and go northward via wetlands, hillsbrad foothills, etc.  or roll a human and go south via westfall, STV, etc.  That is 3 distinct leveling paths on ONE faction.  Stop sitting in denial and look at the facts.  SWTOR does NOT have any of these options when leveling alts.  

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  Creslin321

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Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

2/06/12 10:47:31 AM#114

I think this all comes down to the (IMO) boneheaded decision to give sidequests full VO with dialogue options.  It increases the cost each sidequest astronomically, so having a lot of them becomes cost prohibitive.  I mean, think about it.  Without VO or dialogue options, a sidequest is just a few paragraphs of text and an objective...that can't be that expensive.  But with full VO and dialogue, a sidequest is like 1-3 minutes of voice actor time...much more expensive.

I would wager this adds up a lot.  Especially considering that there are two factions with every separate leveling paths, so everything is essentially doubled.  The devs would probably try to minimize the amount of sidequests to keep costs from getting too high.  This limits your options as a player and makes you feel like you have to go down the same path with every same faction character.

And the worst part is that, while the VO for sidequests was decent, the writing wasn't any better than a WoW sidequest.  Why waste so much money on VO for bad writing?

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  Laughing-man

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3395

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

2/06/12 10:51:26 AM#115
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Kalmarth

Glad you didnt play vanilla wow, because its all the thing you complain about, once past the starting area, you progress though the same areas with each toon you make all the way to max, and if you swap faction you still do the same.

ToR is still in Vanilla stage, once they get a few expansions going and get more planets up there will be more choice, but its a game just getting started.

Anyone want to help me build a time machine and take people back to the old games eq, eq2 and wow? I'm sure it would be an education to this must have it now generation.

Are you just purposely forgetting all the leveling options in WoW at launch?  Let's say I rolled a Night Elf hunter.  I take him from the darnassus area->darkshore->ashenvale->stonetalon mountains->desolace->feralas->thousand needles->tanaris->un'goro-> and at this point I had to go over to eastern kingdoms and I could choose between eastern plaguelands, western plaguelands and burning steppes to take me the final 10 levels to 60.  That's one character.

I could roll same faction, a dwarf and go northward via wetlands, hillsbrad foothills, etc.  or roll a human and go south via westfall, STV, etc.  That is 3 distinct leveling paths on ONE faction.  Stop sitting in denial and look at the facts.  SWTOR does NOT have any of these options when leveling alts.  

Yeah, WoW, DAOC, EQ, all those games remembered that players like choices in where to level.

Ever since WoW launched though that seems like its the one thing other games don't copy...

Aion has a very strict and narrow leveling path, AoC did until its ex pack, Rift does.  Most games seem to only have one leveling path now...

why did we de-evolve the genre in this way?

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

2/06/12 11:06:42 AM#116
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Kalmarth

...

.  

Yeah, WoW, DAOC, EQ, all those games remembered that players like choices in where to level.

Ever since WoW launched though that seems like its the one thing other games don't copy...

Aion has a very strict and narrow leveling path, AoC did until its ex pack, Rift does.  Most games seem to only have one leveling path now...

why did we de-evolve the genre in this way?

 The only reason I can think of is money.  Maybe these studios just didn't have enough money or time to make a larger game world.

But what I don't get is, if you are really so strapped for cash/time, then why make the game two faction so you have to duplicated EVERYTHING.  Boggles the mind...

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  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3518

2/06/12 11:20:56 AM#117

I will definately not make another toon for Empire side. I hated Dromund Kaas the first time (i like the mission flow and layout on Coruscant a lot more)  with all the hiking and the way the taxi service isnt connected to the city (who came up with that!?). Which is too bad because I really liked Hutta, enough to play through with an alt.

So Ill probably continue with my smuggler at some point, or a new toon on republic side. Im not too convinced about the taking cover mechanics. It feels kind of cumbersome to use.

But its clear to me that after 1 toon, max 2 (1 on both factions), that I probably wont continue playing. Then again I also started playing for the kotor/mass effect feel to it. I didnt have any expectations for longevity in this game.

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2550

2/06/12 11:45:39 AM#118

For me repalyability is at the max 8 toons for 8 stories. Then I am even considering 4 more to try the alternate gunslinger instead of scoundrel ,sniper instead of operative and the two shadow and assassin classes instead of sage and sorcerer. Yes the levelling path is narrowed but the voice acting makes up for it in my book because I enjoy watching the cut scenes and I feel so connected to the game. I feel like I am part of it and no two experiences of kiling or following the story has been the same for me because the companions have different characters and dispositions and I just enjoy the game. Cannot explain this I think it is just my sheer joy at being able to play a game with this much interaction that I do not sweat the paths. I have 6 toons I am playing daily about 1 every other day . I hope I do not lose interest for sometime.

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  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

2/06/12 11:46:06 AM#119



Originally posted by smh_alot



Originally posted by Requiamer
If something upset me during beta it was 2 stuff: the team claiming loud their game had great replayability and character customization. Can you be more clueless and not be aware of it?


 
Character customisation I agree, although I cannot recall them saying that but sure, whatever. Replayability, I disagree with you, I can see why for people who're not enjoying quest leveling in it anyway, this may be nonexistent. But I'd say you'd have to be pretty clueless NOT to see how differing class stories and quest and dialogue choices can make quest leveling more replayable than where those are absent and your only choice is to click 'ok' or not for your quests regardless :)

Man you should play more computer games and better ones. The simple fact Swtor give you only one choice to level by questing give it zero replayability, zero diversity, especially if those quest are always the same fed ex/kill 10 rats ones. Some mmo give you a ton of choice to build your characters in a so many different ways, Stwor is just not one of them, you can theory craft all you want about their awesome questing system, a better and larger gaming experience would tell you otherwise. That's exactly why I specifically said a developer who's designing game is his profession cannot be without this experience and make such stupid claims.

  User Deleted
2/06/12 3:04:52 PM#120
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by smh_alot
 

 

Rift also had a world merely the size of Outland, even smaller than half of Kalimdor and EK and barely larger than a LotrO region. Personally I thought the rifts were fun the first couple of times but became less fun very quickly and the quests were as boring as they could get. If you talk replayability, sorry, but Rift has even less of that than what you claim TOR has. But, to each their own I guess.

agree Rift is pretty small but at least all the zones are connected and nothing aside from dungeons and warzones is instanced or phased and Rift has more quest in the higher zones also..

 

It doesn't really matter if the quests are plain and boring and if it means that when you're leveling an alt, you're doing all the exact same quests as well. Sure, in MMO's like LotrO, AoC and SWTOR you're prone to do a lot of the same quests as well, certainly when AoC and LotrO were less than a year out yet, but from all the MMO's Rift was the one that I found had the least replayability of all the MMO's I played, when it came to quest leveling. I'm not saying that people shouldn't enjoy their time in Rift, but when we're talking about replayability, sorry, that claim is just ridiculous imo. Even Aion and LotrO have more, and certainly these days.

 

Surely it's not just the amount of content that makes a game replayable though? I found no problem enjoying levelling 3 characters to max level in Rift because I focused on different factions each time and even the main quests were fun a second and a third time through and the regions enjoyable and nice to be in. I don't care how much content or how big the zones are in ToR, I can't see myself even bothering to level one character to 50 i'm so bored with steel corridors and 'bases' and dirt ball planets. It's just too dull.

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