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I'm here again to link another insightful video (by WoodenPotatoes) about ArenaNet's handle on the whole Endgame philosophy, with Guild Wars 2. So if someone asks you what Guild Wars 2 has to offer as PvE Endgame, then point them to this video.
Not as if most of us here didn't know about this already. As for my take on it, I'm glad with the direction ArenaNet is taking this "the whole game is endgame" thing. If I wanted more of the gear treadmill raiding, then I would still be playing Rift.
/allendgamethreads (Because RizelStar told me to)
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2/05/12 10:40:32 AM#2
Thanks dude, People keep asking me this question and I find it hard to explain Because there is so much. I'll show them this. hehehe,hahahahaHAHAHAHA laughing Hyena, get used to it -_- |
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2/05/12 10:43:03 AM#3
I dunno about this one, sounds like he's just rambling, without really addressing the issue.. basically saying he's not sure, but has faith in ANet being smart enough to figure it out. I'm also skeptical about how he's even defining endgame, mainly just focusing on the gear treadmill, which I personally consider the most worthless form of endgame. I know that's WoW, and everyone copies WoW lately, but before WoW, there were all different kinds of endgame. RvR being my personal favorite.. and I don't think he even mentioned WvWvW? When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world. |
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Originally posted by Vhaln He was deliberately focusing on the topic of PvE Endgame and in most titles, PvE Endgame = Neverending Raiding Gear Treadmill. That is the point he was addressing, because it is not as if PvP'ers have much to complin about, for lack of things to do.
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2/05/12 12:38:55 PM#5
Originally posted by Vhaln how is he rambling? he's concisely answering the question: how does a game with no end game work? |
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2/05/12 12:55:33 PM#6
At the end of the game for guild wars 2: Do the vast amount of content you haven't done yet (all areas are accesible and all events give you rewards relative to your level, even if you're level 80 in the starter area), do the dungeons (which are very hard). Or, y'know, play one of the different stories which are all vastly different for each race, and there are still differences within each race. People are still in the mindset that the 'game' is actually a trail of grindy bollocks and only end game is fun. They need to actually start watching some of the guild wars 2 videos. You fight a typical 'end game' boss at level 1. You fight bosses which would make a WoW fanboy nerdgasm to death if they could have it in their game (but because it isn't they scrunch up their nose and try to say it's nothing special, all while dying a little inside) at mid level in the OPEN WORLD. What more of an end game is needed? When you play mass effect, you don't play it simply to spend hours after the last boss faffing around in space. You play it for the amazing content up to the final boss. Guild wars 2 is like that, but vastly longer and STILL with some stuff to do after all the stories (and the wild variations in each) are done :D
Looking to build a PC but don't know where to start with components? check out this guide (build suggestions on second page): http://grumpychinchilla.co.uk/Articles/Features/BuildGuide/1.html |
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2/05/12 12:58:24 PM#7
They stated countless times that they will focus on endgame - basicly the whole game is 60:40 endgame:rest.o.t.content Edit: Yeah, speaking from a PvE or PvP perspective - they want to focus more on PvP. They dont want to make a grind-fest like all those other MMOs.
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2/05/12 1:00:52 PM#8
Originally posted by 4bsolute They've never said GW2 has a PvP focus. They have said it's much more PvE orientated though.
That's not to say it doesn't have the best PvP in the genre. It does. Hands down. No question. If they released the beta version of the 5v5 matches (not even talking about WvWvW yet), it'd roflstomp the entire genre's pathetic excuse for PvP. Looking to build a PC but don't know where to start with components? check out this guide (build suggestions on second page): http://grumpychinchilla.co.uk/Articles/Features/BuildGuide/1.html |
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2/05/12 1:14:36 PM#9
ughhhh.... i dont know how much more I can take. I'm tearing out my hair to play this game. I try to take my mind off of it with skyrim, minecraft, GW1 and others but it's not really working. I'll play for a while... then i'll alt tab for a little break and before I know it it's 3 hours later and Ive been watching GW2 vids the whole time. How crazy is that... that I would rather watch other people play the game than play a different game myself........
I am concerned for my mental health. "Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month" |
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2/05/12 1:25:33 PM#10
Master you ninja'd me but after posting that you should of said
/allendgamethread(s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-IIn-DG-c Try to argue this please. Oh also if you quote me and it's to argue my point, if I don't respond it means I haven't been corrected by you and/or I haven't seen it. Remember I don't mind admitting I am in the wrong. Take care :D |
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2/05/12 1:28:41 PM#11
Originally posted by illorion have you tried going out of your mom's basement? haha jk. Cant wait either for GW2 to come out. |
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2/05/12 1:36:08 PM#12
I really don't understand the appeal of end-game, anyway. Contrary to trying to convince people that Guild Wars 2 has end-game, I think we should be fighting the notion tooth and nail at every chance we get. I swear, some trad MMO players are acting so brainwashed that it leaves me a little worried as to the state of our willpower. I mean, sheesh, all an alien race would need to do is create an addictive MMO with no culmination and endless 'end-game' to enslave our race. :P Some people have no willpower. It's scary. No, instead, we should be fighting for the standard that exists in single-player games: An experience that's about the jounrey. Even Uru Live told us this, blast it all! I mean, the game shouldn't be about reppeating soul-sucking content over and over after a certain point, it should just have a good ending and be done with it. What is the appeal of wasting months (or years, or decades?!) of your life by repeating the same content over and over? Do people really feel like it's some kind of achievement? But it sin't, it's just a wasted life of regret for them. Creating a great work of art is an achievement, doing something to progress science is an achievement, creating a new philosophy is an achievement, even writing a half decent novel is an achievement. But saying "I spent 4 years of my life repeating exactly the same content over and voer at the end of a game!"? No, that's not an achievement. That's... II don't know what to call that. This is an idea that we should not be embracing. With a single-player game, you have great content from the outset, and it leads up to a crescendo of an ending. Think of a game like Bulletstorm - lots of fun right up until the end, and then you're done. But what if Bulletstorm had had you repeat the last level over and over for four years, with the promise of 'ending unlocks' just down the road? Beat that last level just a few more times, then you can move on to the last boss and beat the game! Finally! Not only that, but as I mentioned in another thread, it turns stories into jokes. World of Warcraft has my favourite example:
Now how would this have gone in a single-player game?
Hopefully, why the latter is better is obvious to everyone. If it isn't then... I just don't know.
And that's what I want out of Guild Wars 2. I want to have fun doing dynamic events with people, doing dungeon runs, and doing my personal story on the path to the ending. Then, when I beat the big bad, I want an ending! Then I want to start a new character and have an entirely new experience with that character (which is what ArenaNet is building the promise of Guild Wars 2 on).
Screw end game, seriously!
End game is for weak willed people who're trying to use a game to give their life purpose. And there are plenty of games out there like that, but does Guild Wars 2 have to be one of them? I'm really interested in Guild Wars 2 and I don't want it to become one of those games, because if it is then I just simply won't play it. And I'm absolutely certain that I can't be the only one that feels tha tway. In fact, I know I'm not. Half of the time when I see people talking about MMOs on Rock, Paper, Shotgun, PC Gamer, and and VG24/7, they're talking about how they gave up on MMOs for this reason.
I've seen so many people say that they don't want to play TOR because of the end game grinding.
How do we differentiate ourselves from TOR? No end game! End game is a horrible thing! Just remove it! It's the most logical and sensible thing to do, and it makes for a healthier game. Sure, have a token dungeon or something that end game fetishists can run if they need to, but for the rest of us? Give us great experiences alog the journey, give us a damned good ending, and I'm sure that most people who're now sick of MMOs will sing the praises of ArenaNet.
Stop trying to hook people based on Guild Wars 2 having end game. We know it doesn't, and we know the only real 'end game' is a hollow, token experience or PvP. Let's sell it on it not having substantial end game. Let's sell it on everything it does right.
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FlawSGI
 Elite Member
Joined: 8/14/10
All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling... |
2/05/12 1:38:12 PM#13
Originally posted by illorion Haha talk about taking a look in the mirror. I noticed I did this a lot between semesters and I am grateful for college keeping me really busy, otherwise I'd be doing the same. My biggest problem I have been facing since following the game is that I have started to judge other games on just what we know about GW2. It has ruined some, and magnified glaring faults in others that I probably could have overlooked in the past. The wait is killer but I know the game will be better for it so I wait and stalk the intranet looking for those tidbits. RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray. |
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2/05/12 1:50:38 PM#14
I think what everyone is missing is the fact that 5 man raids won't be easy
It will be basically the hardness of 20-40 man raids in 5 man raids |
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Originally posted by Sanctum I think a lot of us already know that and just want to try it ourselves. To see whether the testement to the Dungeon's difficulty is true and whether the Explorable modes will actually remain difficult, even when the key tactics are figured out and youtube'd.
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2/05/12 2:26:52 PM#16
Originally posted by Dream_Chaser
I don't really understand the appeal of finishing a game. Especially not an MMO. I want a game that gives me things to do, in world filled with other players, and couldn't care less about being lead by the nose into some sort of "crescendo." I want it to go on indefinately, until I get bored of playing, not until I get to the end of a linear story I haven't cared about from the very beginning. Which is why I've been fighting for the concept of endgame, for as long as MMOs have been around. IMHO, it is what MMOs should be all about, and leveling should only be there to support that. The problem isn't that we're too endgame obsessed, but that devs are still being totally half-assed about it, and only kinda sorta ever so slowly coming around. When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world. |
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2/05/12 2:40:40 PM#17
Originally posted by Sanctum We dont know that yet. |
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FlawSGI
Elite Member
Joined: 8/14/10
All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling... |
2/05/12 2:52:38 PM#18
Originally posted by hikaru77 I agree that we don't know any of this yet untill we have a chance to try it for ourselves.
I'd also like to add that IMO, raids weren't tougher the more people you needed to do them. I always felt the opposit when running large scale raids because there always seemed to be more room for error. The only thing I ever found tougher about running large scaled content was getting the necessary amount of people to run the content and not the content itslef.
With that being said, I do hope the content is tough and knowing that there is a lack of the holy trinity mechanic only makes me want to see a 5 man ran and see if good players do stand out knowing that a healer isn't going to be there to spam heal them out of crappy play. The way things have been designed of late has allowed some lazy people to hide behind a mechanic that encouraged them to not pay to much attention to what they are doing, since there us usually someone else to carry them to the finish line. RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray. |
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2/05/12 3:03:27 PM#19
i am used to the szenario, that there is no endgame or vice versa endgame starts at day 1. i like sandboxes and this is how sandboxes are according to endgame. of course GW2 is a theme-park, but it might become the 1st modern theme-park i enjoy. i like what i see. ArenaNet did the same Blizzard did before they launched wow in 2005. Blizzard looked at the market and asked what is good with current MMOs and what is wrong. after they analysed the current games like EQ and others, they changed some basic paradigms of the MMO gameplay dramatically. unfortuantely Blizzard changed the MMO-paradigms in a way which leaded to the so called modern MMO aka wow-clone, which i hate with passion. now Arenanet does the same 7 years later. you can see that in every damn presentation: they call into question what no wow-clone ever did. they look at wow and all its clones and they will change some fundamental paradigms of the genre with things like dynamic events instead of quests (no linearity) and scaling open world content. we have to see, if they are also able to implement their ideas correctly and how some other big mistakes of the genre are avoided. but if yes, the Genre could change again after 7 damn poor years. played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years) |
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2/05/12 3:04:32 PM#20
Listening to that video, I can say it sounds good.. But it kinda makes me wonder why they did levels anyway? This game seems like it would do very well without them. |
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