Played WOW from mid 2004 (beta) until about a year ago.  When they announced guild experience points and I was playing WOTLK, my 5-member guild were all very skeptical.  Then, Ghostcrawler assured us that small and large guilds would both be supported.  He lied.  When I got in enough time to be sure that I was unhappy, I quit.  And really,  early Cata ruined everything I loved about the game, but the crux of the issue was that my small guild was no longer able to advance at the same level as players in large guilds.

I really feel that this is an example of bad design.  Prior to this, large and small guilds were both supported equally, but in Cata, small guilds are second class citizens.  I don't know what level the guild is now, but I did resub for a couple of months over the summer with my friends, and we pushed the limits and got up to rank two!  Woot?

Other issues were...

too many Battlegrounds, considering most were just clones of each other, heroic dungeons being too large, outdated crafting, poor Worgen animations, outdated character models, and an uninspired story that killed of some of my favorite characters.  Basically, if I could write an anti-wish list of what not to do to WOW after WOTLK, every main feature of Cata would be on that list!  Let's hope they get it right with MOP.

So you quit WoW but looking forward to them doing it right in MOP? You know the same guys that killed your fun are  making MOP, right?  I also don't understand why you are comparing big and small guilds as they are completely different entities and should not be supported in exactly the same manner.  Nothing is stopping you are having a small guild in WoW as far as I can see.  Just don't think you will get all the perks of being in a larger guild as you shouldn't because MMO's should encourage people being social.

Well yes and no about the guild system.  I do think the idea behind it was to try and maintain guild communities.  Before hand especially on the raiding scene, people would join 10man guilds and if they were good players eventually get poached by the bigger 25mans on the server.  That was pretty much the norm in the BC days. I think Blizzard tried to give guilds options not only in terms of raiding, (although the different, 'version' of a raid can be argued another way), as well as perks for sticking with their guild.

It's not a perfect system, plenty of guilds just recruited people to grind guild levels and then kicked them, plenty of people who didin't fit in stayed around for the perks, smaller guilds by less users didin't get so much stuff etc.  The thing is, I recently came back to WoW to a group of friends in guild and I'm really enjoying just playing with them again.  The biggest problem with the guild system is the, 'carrot on the stick', approach to gaming which I'm afraid your a victim of as well.  

You said it yourself with your line about how your guild was smaller and couldn't level as fast.  Is it really that important to have a Mass Rez? Is it really all about what stuffs you can get from the system? Is it honestly all about what you personally get out of it? Guilds are suppose to be about enjoying the game together.  If you find a group of people you like and you can experience fun times together thats far more valuable then a purple phoniex mount IMO :P

Originally posted by Clocksimus

So you quit WoW but looking forward to them doing it right in MOP? You know the same guys that killed your fun are  making MOP, right?  I also don't understand why you are comparing big and small guilds as they are completely different entities and should not be supported in exactly the same manner.  Nothing is stopping you are having a small guild in WoW as far as I can see.  Just don't think you will get all the perks of being in a larger guild as you shouldn't because MMO's should encourage people being social.

 I am not expecting them to get MOP right... but I hope they do.  But for small guilds and large ones being supported at different levels I disagree.  In most ways, large guilds are much less social than small ones who know each other's phone numbers and hang out IRL.  Furthermore, the support of a wide varieties of play styles was what put WOW on the map... and they dumped that in Cata and lost 2 million subs from it!  So you have to be hardcore and spend an hour + to do an heroic  (much less now I know, but too late)?  So, we have to relearn the whole game?  So, we can only ever get the scorp mount or mass res if we have a big guild?  OK Blizzard.   It's clear that you hate casuals now.  /mass exodus

I highly doubt their changes that effected small guilds chased away most of the subs they did lose and a lot more credit goes to newer games that does what WoW does better, like Rift and SWTOR.  There's always two sides and small and big guilds aren't the same so their has to be  differences.  Commonly the smaller group complains that they can not gain things the larger group can and therefore it is unfair.  About bigger guilds being less social, that is a matter of the guild and not it's size.  I've been in massive guilds where it was still very family vibe  with many smaller groups of friends that all worked towards a common goal.

Honestly WoW and blizzard in general has become rather stale and you should leave and not come back.  Blizzard stopped making great games a while back and now focuses on numbers attempt to increase profit instead of doing what they used to do best.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Played WOW from mid 2004 (beta) until about a year ago.  When they announced guild experience points and I was playing WOTLK, my 5-member guild were all very skeptical.  Then, Ghostcrawler assured us that small and large guilds would both be supported.  He lied.  When I got in enough time to be sure that I was unhappy, I quit.  And really,  early Cata ruined everything I loved about the game, but the crux of the issue was that my small guild was no longer able to advance at the same level as players in large guilds.

I really feel that this is an example of bad design.  Prior to this, large and small guilds were both supported equally, but in Cata, small guilds are second class citizens.  I don't know what level the guild is now, but I did resub for a couple of months over the summer with my friends, and we pushed the limits and got up to rank two!  Woot?

Other issues were...

too many Battlegrounds, considering most were just clones of each other, heroic dungeons being too large, outdated crafting, poor Worgen animations, outdated character models, and an uninspired story that killed of some of my favorite characters.  Basically, if I could write an anti-wish list of what not to do to WOW after WOTLK, every main feature of Cata would be on that list!  Let's hope they get it right with MOP.

I'm back playing WoW.  I'm not sure how long I'll stay, and I'll give my full report at a later date.

As far as guilds go.....I think in both WoW and many other mmo's their are far too many guilds, the situation is way too ridiculous. I was just playing around with new classes on a few servers trying to find a new class and a new home.  I was constantly bombarded with Guild invites.  So many, I would be turning them down every five minutes.  A few I took only to find that they would have only  ten members and they would be quiting as fast as they join.

Now I have to say I only have a few level 20's and a 78 Rogue and from this stand point, I'm finding Guilds are worthless because of the dungeon finder anyway.  EVERYONE IS IN A DUNGEON.  I know, I'm using the Social panel often and doing searches for all my levels and EVERYONE IS IN A DUNGEON, and no guild chat at all.

******Guild numbers have to be reduced. 90% should not exist in the first place.

I often play Vanguard. They have 200 players total at times, yet they have 40 Guilds !!!!

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Played WOW from mid 2004 (beta) until about a year ago.  When they announced guild experience points and I was playing WOTLK, my 5-member guild were all very skeptical.  Then, Ghostcrawler assured us that small and large guilds would both be supported.  He lied.  When I got in enough time to be sure that I was unhappy, I quit.  And really,  early Cata ruined everything I loved about the game, but the crux of the issue was that my small guild was no longer able to advance at the same level as players in large guilds.

I really feel that this is an example of bad design.  Prior to this, large and small guilds were both supported equally, but in Cata, small guilds are second class citizens.  I don't know what level the guild is now, but I did resub for a couple of months over the summer with my friends, and we pushed the limits and got up to rank two!  Woot?

Other issues were...

too many Battlegrounds, considering most were just clones of each other, heroic dungeons being too large, outdated crafting, poor Worgen animations, outdated character models, and an uninspired story that killed of some of my favorite characters.  Basically, if I could write an anti-wish list of what not to do to WOW after WOTLK, every main feature of Cata would be on that list!  Let's hope they get it right with MOP.

Good. Join us in AoC. Wiccana server is good.