Trending Games | Skyforge | Kyn | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online

    Facebook Twitter YouTube
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:3,024,470 Users Online:0
Games:842  Posts:6,480,694
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik Discussion Forums

Developers Corner

Developers Corner 

Characters, Skills, Etc.  » Open Primary Class, Closed Sub-Class System

3 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 105

OP  2/03/12 12:32:15 AM#1

I don't know about you guys, but I can't stand being locked into specific classes.. it's one of my biggest pet peeves of all the RPGs I've played.  Sure, things like talent trees allow for some customization, but they don't allow what I would consider to be "real" flexibility.  The following are my ideas of how an Open Class System could be implemented to allow for considerably higher character customization than other games in the genre.

*As this content is part of an ongoing project of mine on/off over the last 2 years, please keep in mind that the potential balance issues that would ultimately arise from such a flexible system have been taken under consideration for quite some time, but are not the focus here.  When I get to the issue of all things math related, balance will be centered first and foremost around PvP.

Open Class System details:

  • Upon character creation: players do NOT select a primary class to be locked into.
  • Accessing the Class menu opens to display a single starting point from which all "class" abilities are centered around and branch out from.
  • Each character level (Clvl) awards the character with 1 class ability point (among other benefits to be discussed elsewhere).
  • Clvl cap < total number of combined abilities among all classes (in order to provide differentiation instead of all characters ending up with all abilities). Example: 7 classes x 20 class abilities in each = 140 total abilities.  Clvl = 50 (Arbitrarily assigned value).  Therefore, in this case, players can pick and choose to fill up to 2 full classes out of those available, +10 extra.
  • Class abilities of 20 divided into 5 tiers each.  T1 = 6 abilities, T2 = 5, T3 = 4, T4 = 3, T5 = 2
  • T1 houses the first set of class skills closest to center starting point with no prerequisites.  In order to progress to the next higher tier of any class, a certain number of abilities must first be learned (prereqs).
  • Upon learning any class ability, player is awarded with a set of attributes (one of multiple ways a character is awarded increased attributes).  The attributes received in this fashion are based on class.
Q: So, if a player is free to spread ability points however he/she sees fit, wouldn't they be doing themselves an injustice to not max out classes in order to reach T5 abilities?
A: See Fundamentalist in the following section.
Closed Sub-Class System details:
  • Sub-classes are also not selected upon character creation, but instead through some other means (perhaps quest related?).
  • Sub-classes provide unique benefits that will further customize a character.
  • each sub-class provides the character with passive buffs as well as a unique feature.
  1. Captain: party leader.  Captains increase their combat effectivness directly correlating with total party size and number of non-captains in party.  Example: a party full of captains will not increase combat effectiveness of any party member.  Alternatively, a party consisting of 1 captain and 4 members of other sub-classes will provide the captain with the largest combat boost.  Unique ability: TBD
  2. Fundamentalist: Excels in the use of any and all T1-3 class abilities. Unique: TBD
  3. Extremist: Excels in use of any and all T4-5.  Unique: TBD
  4. Survivalist: Always receives STAMINA (HP) boost to some extent no matter what the class ability learned.  If the ability awards STAMINA, a % increase is awarded.  If no STAMINA was awarded for a learned skill, a flat amount will be added in addition to the other conferred attributes.  Unique: TBD
  5.  Marauder: Excels in the learning and effectiveness of all weapons and their respective "classes" across the board.  Marauders level weapon classes faster than other classes as well as gaining unique access to the highest weapon skills.
*I would greatly appreciate all feedback on this proposed system (both positive and negative).  I will be providing a link to my full development concept in the near future using a free web hosting service.  If  you like what you have read here (seeing as how this is my first development post on the internet), please check back to this post for further content as well as the primary class themes in extensive detail.  Now and always: thanks for reading.

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6280

6/23/12 11:13:23 AM#2

I can give you a real world example of a system that has some of these things.


It was in my main MUD called Lostsouls which was an LP mud.


The system wasa hybrid skill and "class" system.  You had a whole host of skills that trained through use based skilling (you could also pay for training to speed things up).  Not all skills were available from the get go.  The sword skill for example was always avaiable and anyone even people with no "class" could get to 100 in sword simply by using it.  But Cryomancy could only be gotten by joining the White Mages.


So the first thing there were no "classes" instead they were called guilds.  Every character started in the "Adenturer's Guild" which basically meant they had no special abilities but got starter equipment.

You had to find the guilds.  They were hidden.  Some were extremely hidden some were well known but just had some trick or you just had to make it out there.  When you found them some immediately let you join some made you go on a quest or find a special item.

Once you joined you basically got a "class" how that worked depened on the implementation of the guild.  Some power were level based as to when you obtained them some were skill based.  But basically all special powers came from a guild.

You were locked into a guild until level 30, which was called Hero level and required a special quest to achieve involving gettting a number of hard to obtain and find item such as catching a vial of acid from the breath of Tiamat, who was both dangerous and hard to find.

Once you were level 30 you could use the guildstrip command.  Which basically put you back into the Adventurer Guild.  There were a few special giulds in which you could never leave.  For example one guild when you joined possessed your body with a demon and made you undead.  You were stuck there.  But you could gstrip from rangers and for be a discordian if you wanted.  You had a real time limit of one guildstrip per week.

Guilds were exclusive you could only be in one at a time.


The other part of the equation was something called associations.  These worked almost the same as guilds, but were not strictly exclusive and usually only gave one or two minor abilities or some utility.  Certain associations could not be done together, a Chaotic associations and an Order based associations could not be had simultaneously.  Also most associations came with some sort of drawback.

For example joining the Explorers was generally easy and usually compatible with other associations.  It gave you the ability to read the stars and not need a compass it also gave you some fire/cold resistance and a bonus to awareness and elude skills.  But limited you to light armor.

The discoridan association gave you the ability to sing from a hymnbook which caused you to regen spell points faster.  It also gave you chaos favor (which has various obscure benefits) and the ability to quote.  Quote was just something where you randomly spouted out some inane thing that other players had entered into the list of funny quotes, such as "Negative, I am a meat popisicle".  If I remeber right this one also wanted you to use light armor


You could join both exploreres and discoridans.  But the discordian would prevent joining the Tyr association as that one was an Orderly association.


EAch association and guild also had its own special chat channel.  Which I found to be a much cooler way of doing things than most MMOs have done.  As the people you regularly chatted with were also people who were part of what you chose to join.  It made that guild feel like a guild rather than a class and the guilds were meant to be an association of like minded individuals.  One guild was the Knight of the Round table.  Which was kind of like a paladin class, but you know the knights stuck together they were more than a class and they left helpful things in their guild hall for other knights etc.  Most people had a soft spot in ther hearts for the guild there had been in.  There was a certain loyalty that got instilled.  Often people guild hopped around to get special skills.  For example many Knights became rangers to train certain skills then went back to being knights.  Because of this there was always a sort of informal alliance there.  Plus they both could use weapon lore in useful ways, Ranger made good spears and Knights sharpened them.

Same thing with associations.  To get into the discordians you had to lay on the altar with Chaos favor and then it would teleport you down to the guild/association hall  people regularly left helpful stuff there for other discordians.  But an Orderly character didn't get the channel to talk to the discoridan other than whispers or whatver and they had trouble getting chaos favor to get down there.


All in all I thought it was a pretty good system with alot of character although I wouldn't claim it was at all balanced.  But it certainly had far more character and kept people far more accupied on real RPG stuff than many class based MMOs.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 509

6/24/12 2:24:37 PM#3

Your system has already been implemented in a similar fashion in 'The secret world'. Maybe you should check it out?

In principle your system should work. Here are some further points:

- Game must allow for a group of generalists to be as effective as a group of specialists.

- You should also define combination effects for your skills. Firearmor followed by tornado = firestorm.

- Since the player has a huge choice you will have to allow for respecs.

- The skills of each class must truly be different from each other or there is no point in having a choice (other than the visuals).

- The skill / leveling system alone does not make or break the game. The setting, game mechanics (combat, long term progression, crafting...), visuals and quality of implementation is also very important.

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.