Originally posted by Ceridith

Most companies, EA included, use an 'active sometime in the past 30 days' metric to count "active" subscribers. They also include those in their first moth trial.

Considering the game came out late December, that "active" count very likely includes every single account that was activated since release, even those that have since finished their first free month and lapsed as they still technically fall into that 'active sometime in the past 30 days' window.

Also when a developer/publisher says 'we sold 2 million', it includes game boxes that have been shipped to retailers, not just copies that have actually been purchased by consumers, so the number is a bit inflated. 1.7 million sounds like the more accurate number of how many copies have actually been sold and activated since release due to that 30 day metric.

If you're really interested in how EA is doing, why not look at them on the Securities and Exchange Commision's website and stop babbling about here? (Link for those who are too lazy: http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=Electronic+Arts&match=contains&CIK=&filenum=&State=&Country=&SIC=&owner=exclude&Find=Find+Companies&action=getcompany ) The only interesting thing there, imo, is the confidentiality treatment order.

Originally posted by Herodes

Now 1.7 million at 50-60+ $ or € is still an impressive mark for an MMO.

I agree.  

I don't understand why all the hate here for the game?  

To all those hating with harsh words - What is the MMO you play? 

  I'll never go back to WoW, and I personally know about 40 people that will never go back to it either.   The community is awful by comparison to ToR.. no new content will change that part of it , EVER.

  I played WoW for 5 years, and completed all content up until Cata when I quit, along with my entire 25 man progression guild. 

Currently,  I  have 3 active SW:ToR subs in my  house and we sub for 3 months at a time.  So...  idk..  Everyone seems to be speculating and to what end?   Why?  If you don't play it, what do you care if it thrives or dies?

I love the game and hope it does well because there is no other MMO I care to play.

  ..  ... ...

Originally posted by KinetiKoPP

If you're really interested in how EA is doing, why not look at them on the Securities and Exchange Commision's website and stop babbling about here? (Link for those who are too lazy: http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=Electronic+Arts&match=contains&CIK=&filenum=&State=&Country=&SIC=&owner=exclude&Find=Find+Companies&action=getcompany ) The only interesting thing there, imo, is the confidentiality treatment order.

Oh yeah sure, like ANY company is showing a consistant ANYTHING on the stock market these days. Come on.

Originally posted by KahPao

Originally posted by Herodes

Now 1.7 million at 50-60+ $ or € is still an impressive mark for an MMO.

 

I agree.  

 

I don't understand why all the hate here for the game?  

To all those hating with harsh words - What is the MMO you play? 

 

  I'll never go back to WoW, and I personally know about 40 people that will never go back to it either. 

  ..  ... ...

really?

You PERSONALLY know 40 people.  Like people in real life, not just e-buddies right?  Really?  That all played WoW and you know personally won't ever go back?  Really?   Whatever.

Good mmo's, CoH at age 3+, DAoC before ToA, WoW before BGs.   I've played everything, and the mmo genre is drifting away from the GOOD aspects of these games and drifting towards the BAD stuff.  SWTOR is voice acting plus WoW's bad parts, and the parts of an MMO that have remained stale since their inception.  It's a huge name with a huge budget that represents the sad state of this genre.    Hate doesn't cover what I feel about this game, luckily there's other good games and single player RPGs that can keep me from going psychotic.

Originally posted by adam_nox

Originally posted by KahPao

Originally posted by Herodes

Now 1.7 million at 50-60+ $ or € is still an impressive mark for an MMO.

 

I agree.  

 

I don't understand why all the hate here for the game?  

To all those hating with harsh words - What is the MMO you play? 

 

  I'll never go back to WoW, and I personally know about 40 people that will never go back to it either. 

  ..  ... ...

really?

You PERSONALLY know 40 people.  Like people in real life, not just e-buddies right?  Really?  That all played WoW and you know personally won't ever go back?  Really?   Whatever.

 

Good mmo's, CoH at age 3+, DAoC before ToA, WoW before BGs.   I've played everything, and the mmo genre is drifting away from the GOOD aspects of these games and drifting towards the BAD stuff.  SWTOR is voice acting plus WoW's bad parts, and the parts of an MMO that have remained stale since their inception.  It's a huge name with a huge budget that represents the sad state of this genre.    Hate doesn't cover what I feel about this game, luckily there's other good games and single player RPGs that can keep me from going psychotic.

Thats amazing!! you feel about SWTOR exactly the same way I feel about WoW! 

Originally posted by adam_nox

Originally posted by KahPao

Originally posted by Herodes

Now 1.7 million at 50-60+ $ or € is still an impressive mark for an MMO.

 

I agree.  

 

I don't understand why all the hate here for the game?  

To all those hating with harsh words - What is the MMO you play? 

 

  I'll never go back to WoW, and I personally know about 40 people that will never go back to it either. 

  ..  ... ...

really?

You PERSONALLY know 40 people.  Like people in real life, not just e-buddies right?  Really?  That all played WoW and you know personally won't ever go back?  Really?   Whatever.

 

Good mmo's, CoH at age 3+, DAoC before ToA, WoW before BGs.   I've played everything, and the mmo genre is drifting away from the GOOD aspects of these games and drifting towards the BAD stuff.  SWTOR is voice acting plus WoW's bad parts, and the parts of an MMO that have remained stale since their inception.  It's a huge name with a huge budget that represents the sad state of this genre.    Hate doesn't cover what I feel about this game, luckily there's other good games and single player RPGs that can keep me from going psychotic.

Hi,

Yes, I personally do know 43 people actually that quit WoW and are never going back.. Not all went to ToR but over half are on my server.    Most of us have played MMO's together for over 2 years and some as much as 4 years.   I keep in touch with these friends on a daily and weekly basis.  Occasionally meeting for lunch or drinks after work.

I'm not exaggerating, and just felt it was important to post, because I read here mostly and do not openly share. 

  This seemed important enough that you and others realize there is a whole population of participants that don't actively tell you their stories.    I'm also a woman, wife/ mother and over 40.    Amazing, right?

MMO's are meant to bring out the best in us, competing with one another , experiencing content and reaching goals while playing with people you actually like a bit.    They certainly aren't  meant to drive you "psychotic", as you put it .   Perhaps you are doing wrong?   

But I digress... I feel it is doing much better than many other MMO's that I beta tested in recent years .. And so much smoother than WoW was on release.    I remember those days well.  

best wishes ~

Originally posted by KahPao

Originally posted by Herodes

Now 1.7 million at 50-60+ $ or € is still an impressive mark for an MMO.

 

I agree.  

 

I don't understand why all the hate here for the game?  

To all those hating with harsh words - What is the MMO you play? 

 

  I'll never go back to WoW, and I personally know about 40 people that will never go back to it either.   The community is awful by comparison to ToR.. no new content will change that part of it , EVER.

  I played WoW for 5 years, and completed all content up until Cata when I quit, along with my entire 25 man progression guild. 

 

Currently,  I  have 3 active SW:ToR subs in my  house and we sub for 3 months at a time.  So...  idk..  Everyone seems to be speculating and to what end?   Why?  If you don't play it, what do you care if it thrives or dies?

I love the game and hope it does well because there is no other MMO I care to play.

 

  ..  ... ...

 Why all the hate? I wouldn't call it hate, I would call it strong criticism of a badly developed, implimented product. Btw my household also has three accounts, one $150.00 collectors edition(Me) and two $80.00 versions (wife and son).

 This game is so shoddy from top to bottom that players have written multi page posts on the short comings. Where have you been for all of this? My wife doesn't even bother to play and I barely play, actually the wife and I have already canceled, our son plays. But he is mostly doing pvp, and I think that has more to do with the fact that pvp is a new thing for him. You know how it goes when your new to pvp, it tends to suck you in.

 My bet is that he'll stop playing after a while once the luster of pvp gets worn in. Once he's seen better pvp systems as well to compare it with. He already sees and agrees with the amazing amount of other short comings, bugs and faults of this game. His problem is he was a Lotro player before which as we all know has a crap pvp system. The Ettenmoors is one of the worst pvp systems ever tacked onto a mmorpg, great concept though just bad implimentation. So once he's had his fill of a slightly better pvp system he'll most likely join the wife and I at going...wow was that a badly designed mmorpg.

 Hell it isn't even really an mmorpg, it is more of a dumbed down single player rpg that Bioware tacked on some elements of a mmorpg. Sad indeed. Anyhow read the damn posts and break downs of all the short comings of this game, take the blinders off. If they don't make some serious changes in the next six months this game will go tits up and become the next Warhammer.

 Btw do the math, tell me how long it is going to be before EA sees a profit for this game. Currently they are 205 million dollars in the hole. At current subscription prices, if no one cancels it is going to take them a very very long time to break even and start getting into the red. I don't see Bioware making the changes to keep the players to put this game into the red. They've shown bad customer service, that they'll blow smoke up everyones backside. They showed that they were lazy by buying a really bad software engine to run their game. (Hero Engine) They showed that they don't understand the the basics of what makes a mmorpg and repeatly cut corners. Nah I dont see it, and no I dont hate but I can be damn well critical of shoddy work, so should you.

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by KahPao

Originally posted by Herodes

Now 1.7 million at 50-60+ $ or € is still an impressive mark for an MMO.

 

I agree.  

 

I don't understand why all the hate here for the game?  

To all those hating with harsh words - What is the MMO you play? 

 

  I'll never go back to WoW, and I personally know about 40 people that will never go back to it either.   The community is awful by comparison to ToR.. no new content will change that part of it , EVER.

  I played WoW for 5 years, and completed all content up until Cata when I quit, along with my entire 25 man progression guild. 

 

Currently,  I  have 3 active SW:ToR subs in my  house and we sub for 3 months at a time.  So...  idk..  Everyone seems to be speculating and to what end?   Why?  If you don't play it, what do you care if it thrives or dies?

I love the game and hope it does well because there is no other MMO I care to play.

 

  ..  ... ...

 Why all the hate? I wouldn't call it hate, I would call it strong criticism of a badly developed, implimented product. Btw my household also has three accounts, one $150.00 collectors edition(Me) and two $80.00 versions (wife and son).

 This game is so shoddy from top to bottom that players have written multi page posts on the short comings. Where have you been for all of this? My wife doesn't even bother to play and I barely play, actually the wife and I have already canceled, our son plays. But he is mostly doing pvp, and I think that has more to do with the fact that pvp is a new thing for him. You know how it goes when your new to pvp, it tends to suck you in.

 My bet is that he'll stop playing after a while once the luster of pvp gets worn in. Once he's seen better pvp systems as well to compare it with. He already sees and agrees with the amazing amount of other short comings, bugs and faults of this game. His problem is he was a Lotro player before which as we all know has a crap pvp system. The Ettenmoors is one of the worst pvp systems ever tacked onto a mmorpg, great concept though just bad implimentation. So once he's had his fill of a slightly better pvp system he'll most likely join the wife and I at going...wow was that a badly designed mmorpg.

 Hell it isn't even really an mmorpg, it is more of a dumbed down single player rpg that Bioware tacked on some elements of a mmorpg. Sad indeed. Anyhow read the damn posts and break downs of all the short comings of this game, take the blinders off. If they don't make some serious changes in the next six months this game will go tits up and become the next Warhammer.

 Btw do the math, tell me how long it is going to be before EA sees a profit for this game. Currently they are 205 million dollars in the hole. At current subscription prices, if no one cancels it is going to take them a very very long time to break even and start getting into the red. I don't see Bioware making the changes to keep the players to put this game into the red. They've shown bad customer service, that they'll blow smoke up everyones backside. They showed that they were lazy by buying a really bad software engine to run their game. (Hero Engine) They showed that they don't understand the the basics of what makes a mmorpg and repeatly cut corners. Nah I dont see it, and no I dont hate but I can be damn well critical of shoddy work, so should you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem with this is that you are pushing your opinion off as facts.

And your math is wrong, they've already made up for half the costs on those 2+million boxed sales, it should take them 4month to break even, and its profit after that.

Originally posted by booheads

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by KahPao

Originally posted by Herodes

Now 1.7 million at 50-60+ $ or € is still an impressive mark for an MMO.

 

I agree.  

 

I don't understand why all the hate here for the game?  

To all those hating with harsh words - What is the MMO you play? 

 

  I'll never go back to WoW, and I personally know about 40 people that will never go back to it either.   The community is awful by comparison to ToR.. no new content will change that part of it , EVER.

  I played WoW for 5 years, and completed all content up until Cata when I quit, along with my entire 25 man progression guild. 

 

Currently,  I  have 3 active SW:ToR subs in my  house and we sub for 3 months at a time.  So...  idk..  Everyone seems to be speculating and to what end?   Why?  If you don't play it, what do you care if it thrives or dies?

I love the game and hope it does well because there is no other MMO I care to play.

 

  ..  ... ...

 Why all the hate? I wouldn't call it hate, I would call it strong criticism of a badly developed, implimented product. Btw my household also has three accounts, one $150.00 collectors edition(Me) and two $80.00 versions (wife and son).

 This game is so shoddy from top to bottom that players have written multi page posts on the short comings. Where have you been for all of this? My wife doesn't even bother to play and I barely play, actually the wife and I have already canceled, our son plays. But he is mostly doing pvp, and I think that has more to do with the fact that pvp is a new thing for him. You know how it goes when your new to pvp, it tends to suck you in.

 My bet is that he'll stop playing after a while once the luster of pvp gets worn in. Once he's seen better pvp systems as well to compare it with. He already sees and agrees with the amazing amount of other short comings, bugs and faults of this game. His problem is he was a Lotro player before which as we all know has a crap pvp system. The Ettenmoors is one of the worst pvp systems ever tacked onto a mmorpg, great concept though just bad implimentation. So once he's had his fill of a slightly better pvp system he'll most likely join the wife and I at going...wow was that a badly designed mmorpg.

 Hell it isn't even really an mmorpg, it is more of a dumbed down single player rpg that Bioware tacked on some elements of a mmorpg. Sad indeed. Anyhow read the damn posts and break downs of all the short comings of this game, take the blinders off. If they don't make some serious changes in the next six months this game will go tits up and become the next Warhammer.

 Btw do the math, tell me how long it is going to be before EA sees a profit for this game. Currently they are 205 million dollars in the hole. At current subscription prices, if no one cancels it is going to take them a very very long time to break even and start getting into the red. I don't see Bioware making the changes to keep the players to put this game into the red. They've shown bad customer service, that they'll blow smoke up everyones backside. They showed that they were lazy by buying a really bad software engine to run their game. (Hero Engine) They showed that they don't understand the the basics of what makes a mmorpg and repeatly cut corners. Nah I dont see it, and no I dont hate but I can be damn well critical of shoddy work, so should you.

 

The problem with this is that you are pushing your opinion off as facts.

 

And your math is wrong, they've already made up for half the costs on those 2+million boxed sales, it should take them 4month to break even, and its profit after that.

     And my opinion is based on what I enjoy an what I have seen over the past twenty years online gaming. Btw where did i mention any real hard core math numbers? I just mentiioned the stated 205 million net loss that EA is currently dealing with. That was a press release, nothing I am coming up with off the top of my head. 205 million net loss is nothing to joke around about.

   EA still has continuing operations costs, employee salaries, their dreadful out of country third party CE costs, server costs, building costs etc etc. 4 months to break even? I think your estimated math is a bit off. "IF" they maintain 1.7 million paying subscribers and you multiple just that number by the cost of the subscription, then subract that number from the 205million net loss they are still dealing with, I don't think that you'll find that 4 months is the number they will be looking at.

  You still have to realize that most likely they won't keep 1.7 million subscribers over the next 4 to 6 months. I'm betting that by the sixth month that they'll be lucky to hold onto 1million paying subscribers. Would I like to see this game turn around? Oh yeah, you bet I would, but based on how Bioware and EA operate I just don't see it happening. :(  

lol people complain about the bugs but nobody remembers the monster that is now which is WoW which had huge bugs and was worse then swtor  on it's first few months and also WoW never reached it's grand numbers till after BC prertty much and for Swtor to hit 2million in it's first 2 months says alot but needs alot of work still and people don't understand that about mmo's , The only thing that sets them apart are the companies hard work getting those patchs out and bioware has been pushing out fixes every week and sometimes twice a week so shows they are working hard so give it 4 to 6 months and should be a good running game.

Also they built there own engine and with that they will have a ton of issues that you can't see in beta since you won't have the numbers and constant game playing.

People say how dumbed down it is ya of course it is look at WoW you think they be as succesfull as they were if it was hardcore noooooo. Dumbed down easy to play games for the casual gamers make more money then any hardcore game out there since the casual player is in greater numbers then the hardcore games since well casual gamers have lives with jobs and kids hardcores usally don't and that means the casual has the money lol.

people say game is gonna be dead in 6 months i expect the way it has been going it be 3 million subs by then and take that from a person that plays it almost every day alteast 2 hrs and seeing new people just  flooding into the game every day.

This game has huge pontential and it's up to bioware to meet that challenge and considering there past games and this being there first mmo it will be rocky but they should rise to the challenge hopefully and only time will tell.

Originally posted by 77lolmac77

But I thought this game peaked on Xfire?



because everyone uses Xfire right?



also, in before "how much did EA pay you to post this?" comments

 

Rather this is sarcastic or not, an accurate survey only needs ~3000 randomly picked participants to have a resonable (90+%) accuracy rating.

This was probably also mentioned in here, but that 1.7million is from the "Free Month" period.

However, unless Bioware can make some changes...which I can't put into words because it's a 'feeling'; right now the game 'feels' empty (ingore the subs). This game will fail and end up like WAR, LoTRO (pre-f2p), RIFT, AoC (pre-f2p), and several others...dieing before their time.

@Yellowbeard: SWTOR is even more casual than WoW, which is sad because most of the people who initially bought the game were looking for something "harder" than WoW.

Also, Bioware, if you're reading this...WE WANT OUR HIGH RES TEXTURES BACK. Just because some idiots are too stupid to lower their settings to 'playable' levels doesn't give you the freedom to show off 'High Res screenshots of NON-CUTSCENES' and then bait and switch us with Medium graphics and clame the "High Res" was a bug.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=162569

I know a few people who only play for the first month and then completely stop playing, I did that myself with this game just didn't quite capture my attention i like bioware but i think they need to do something different all their RPG seem to same since kotor

While you guys fight over SWTOR's population, it is currently Tuesday ,5:53 PM my time..

25 servers at High population in the United States..

If it is not that, then why argue about the rest?

These are the people they are after, and it seems that they are not budging..

Originally posted by Deewe

What I would like to see is the numbers with the january drop.

I have a hard time trusting there are 1.7ish millions players. We went from full servers with long queues to almost all normal and around 5 heavy at peak time.

What I'm afraid of is the managers use these fake info not to fix the game and make it bleed even more.

That's because they increased server capacities.

Originally posted by Dyner

Originally posted by 77lolmac77

But I thought this game peaked on Xfire?



because everyone uses Xfire right?



also, in before "how much did EA pay you to post this?" comments

 

Rather this is sarcastic or not, an accurate survey only needs ~3000 randomly picked participants to have a resonable (90+%) accuracy rating.

This was probably also mentioned in here, but that 1.7million is from the "Free Month" period.

However, unless Bioware can make some changes...which I can't put into words because it's a 'feeling'; right now the game 'feels' empty (ingore the subs). This game will fail and end up like WAR, LoTRO (pre-f2p), RIFT, AoC (pre-f2p), and several others...dieing before their time.

@Yellowbeard: SWTOR is even more casual than WoW, which is sad because most of the people who initially bought the game were looking for something "harder" than WoW.

 

Also, Bioware, if you're reading this...WE WANT OUR HIGH RES TEXTURES BACK. Just because some idiots are too stupid to lower their settings to 'playable' levels doesn't give you the freedom to show off 'High Res screenshots of NON-CUTSCENES' and then bait and switch us with Medium graphics and clame the "High Res" was a bug.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=162569

So what makes you think that xfire users are a random selection instead of a specific group of gamers that are more into games, thus their use for a dedicated gaming chat client that tracks played hours?

People just try to feel better about their own failures by looking for any other kind of failure to /point and /laugh at.  SW:TOR is doing just fine and as it expands to other markets will grow further, add to that the advertising yet to boost numbers.

People who say it is a badly designed game need to realise that, as with all MMO's, it will have patches and updates.  WoW still has lots of errors and bugs and has been around for years.

As for EA making a loss from this game, absolute nonsense.  People are looking at EA's overall shortfall - from their entire business, not just this one game - and expecting this one game to bail out any losses they have made from all their other investments?  EA have more than one game in development at any given time.  SW:TOR will more than make what it cost.

To the haters:  Breathe, relax, go play something you do like instead.  Don't worry about SW:TOR posts, nobody is forcing you to read or comment on them.  We won't miss your input, I promise it.

Of the 4 of my friends (myself included) that started at launch, all of us have either stopped playing or cancelled their subscriptions this month. While the single player game and Class quests are excellent, the rest of the game just didn't have enough to hold us.

Originally posted by JackthShadow

Of the 4 of my friends (myself included) that started at launch, all of us have either stopped playing or cancelled their subscriptions this month. While the single player game and Class quests are excellent, the rest of the game just didn't have enough to hold us.

That being said if you've been playing WoW for any extended period you may be just burnout on the whole mmorpg genre.

I take Swtor as it is, a fairly polished game, with nothing overly ground breaking, with a back story that actually interests me and engages me, with a company putting effort into rectify issues as soon as reasonably possible. As long as BW continues to release content and address issues, I expect to be playing this game and my friends seem fairly happy with what we have in front of us.

The people who don’t like something are always going to be quite vocal, those who enjoy are usually too busy enjoying it to bother posting.

Originally posted by Testeagleoz

Originally posted by JackthShadow

Of the 4 of my friends (myself included) that started at launch, all of us have either stopped playing or cancelled their subscriptions this month. While the single player game and Class quests are excellent, the rest of the game just didn't have enough to hold us.

Of the 6 of my friends (myself included) that started at launch, all of us bar one are still playing (that one being my GF who I bought a copy for and still technically gets on sporadically). While the single player game and Class quests are excellent, the rest of the game keeps us there.

While the game does indeed have its issues, many being patched out, I think people really do expect too much from a new product.

That being said if you've been playing WoW for any extended period you may be just burnout on the whole mmorpg genre.

I take Swtor as it is, a fairly polished game, with nothing overly ground breaking, with a back story that actually interests me and engages me, with a company putting effort into rectify issues as soon as reasonably possible. As long as BW continues to release content and address issues, I expect to be playing this game and my friends seem fairly happy with what we have in front of us.

The people who don’t like something are always going to be quite vocal, those who enjoy are usually too busy enjoying it to bother posting.

 

 

the problem i had was the patches that were supposed to address issues, brought more issues into the game. and a lot of the times didnt even fix the issue(s) they were trying to fix. ive unsub'd but my play time doesnt end until 2/21 i check in every tuesday and the problems that made me stop playing are still there and there are many new issues now too.

i was hoping this game would hold my attention for a least a few months cause im so burned out on wow. at present im not playing anything.