Trending Games | ArcheAge | Elder Scrolls Online | The Crew | World of Warcraft

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,775,886 Users Online:0
Games:723  Posts:6,191,201
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » General: MMO Growing Pains

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search
98 posts found
  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

2/01/12 10:27:20 AM#21

Originally posted by Jowen

Hi. I'm an EVE'r. Dunno what you're talking about.





 


Mission, mission, mission, mission, mission, "epic story arc!"


( it's structured a little differently, but it's there )


  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7679

Logic be damned!

2/01/12 10:31:08 AM#22

WoW used instancing because a lot of players complained about camping mobs, ninja tags, mob trains etc.

PvP become instanced because a lot of players complained about being ganked/griefed etc.

WoW gave us quests because a lot of players complained about the grind.

 

We look back with rose colored glasses, I know I do when I think of times with UO.

But the truth is somewhat different.

Would we actually want to go back? In some ways, and in certain areas - for sure, without a doubt.

In others?

99% would say "not so much."

"Occupy MMORPG! We are the 99%!" JK

 

It's hard to let go - to think back on our earlier days and not be rosey eyed. Entire genres that I loved growning up no longer really exist - space combat sims!

Sure, there will be "other" ideas that challenge the WoW conventions - but will they be successful? Millions are still playing and enjoying the WoW model.

Only time will tell.

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  emikochan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/16/07
Posts: 267

Welcome to my world.

2/01/12 10:33:05 AM#23
Originally posted by Jowen

Hi. I'm an EVE'r. Dunno what you're talking about.

Yep. Feels good to be on top :)

 

That said, Has the writer ever played fps? Compare S4 league to COD and say they are "basically the same game" There is loads of innovation in fps, especially in the mmo scene, Firefall and Dust514 are really mixing up the dynamic.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18803

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

2/01/12 10:41:03 AM#24

I think it all comes down to the end game.

I'm bored with the standard theme park model of level up until cap, grind instanced PVP zones and PvE dungeons for gear and esoteric rewards.

My needs are simple, bring back an end game that involves territiory / resource control, a la DAOC, Lineage 2 or even EVE (though I realize in EVE it's all just end game)

What I want in MMORPG's isn't really innovative, it just has been under utilized in recent years and IMO has never realized the full potential that they could have.  (outside of poorly made Indie titles such as DF or MO)

 

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

2/01/12 10:45:19 AM#25

It is inevitable for MMOs to become stale when they are now targetting casual gamers who want it easier and easier every year. The content keeps getting less and less because of this and of course everyone has forgotten that true MMOs don't have a endgame. People need to remember this.

The only why to save MMOs is to go back to what they where WOW vanilla and before.

  DaddyDark

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/11
Posts: 138

2/01/12 10:49:53 AM#26

I am absolutely sure that the genre will evolve further and I am looking forward to it. WoW was a win because of it being more convenient vs. previous games: easy leveling (though a bit too long for my taste) and straight combat system, fast traveling (yeah it is damn slow, but if you ever traveled on foot in Ultima online cause your horse got perma-killed by the basilisc - you would know that WoW speeded it up a bit), capital hubs and auction houses (there was player driven market in Ultima, but you would have to go through like 20 shops to find what you want) ect. Those are only a few of the things WoW made more convenient... not to tell it had user UI support, which made it even better...  and I love all those convenience things, but WoW also limited the genre by setting up strict hierarchy of activities: Raiding > Arenas > Endgame PvP - Heroics.  There is no housing, no player customisation, few emotions and options to socialise. Crafting is totally degraded to being something secondary vs. grind. There is no roleplaying (well some players try to). When you hit max level - all you can actually do is grinding and farming some gear. Gear means everything - which is certanly something I hate to see in MMO.  


I agree that the only solution is to go back to the roots of roleplaying, but not in a sense of making it a sandbox experience again, no. I want all the convenience features. But there still lots of unexplored rpg areas, which might be made into parallel and equalt important endgame features:


1) Housing


2) Crafting


3) Character customisation and social features like in social MMOs


4) Adventuring (there is no sense of adventure in WoW - you just constantly engage in combat). Adventuring opens up lots of space for non-combat skills. Classical AD&D examples include traveling and  overcoming obstacles (like rogue swimming on the other side of the river to set up the bridge), communication (e.g. bard talking locals into helping the party), all sorts of non-combat magical staff... examples are limitless. I don't mean you should make every river in game an obstacle - just make some random adventures which players can take like instances, but wich would put players up against much more than combat. This will be a very entertaining experience by itself, especially if those advenures will be random.


Also I would like removing endgame objectives hierarchy and lowering importance of gear: WHY everybody should participate in raiding? Most people prefer playing in small groups of 2-4 players!!!  Why the newcomers who have no good gear should suffer because better geared players who've been longer in the game are prefered?? It makes no sense. There are different types of players who enjoy different things - make all of them happy, by giving their preferences equal rights.


  Ozmodan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6586

2/01/12 10:52:29 AM#27

You have to be kidding me if you have hope for games like  WildStar, TERA, Dust 514 and Salem.  None of which are that markedly different, although Salem is, but it is being developed by a bunch of yahoos who have little grasp of what works in a MMO.

I have yet to see a Class/level system that keeps people interested long in a game beyond Wow which just attracts players that want easy mode.

Give me a skill system of some sort, nothing else interests me much.  I would even take a skill/level system like Asheron's call.  Far superior to what we have at the moment.  Even GW2 is not that different

A class system is just outright dumb.  It puts you in the developers straight jacket from the start.  Hence you can never really differentiate your avatar from others.  There are always thousands just like you.

Beyond a skill based MMO, it must have meaningful crafting.  If a sword of devastation drops off any creature it is one too many.

And posters here wondered why Eve won best game again this year.  Because people just keep playing it, there is always something else to do.

  Talinguard

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 672

Player accomplishment is relative to the chance of meaningful consequences in the event you fail.

2/01/12 11:04:05 AM#28

Not sure If I'm reinventing the genre, but this concept looks to seriously change the incentives...


 


http://www.slideshare.net/talin/mmo-economics-concept-v-10


Presentation for new MMORPG economics concept http://www.slideshare.net/talin/mmo-economics-concept-v-10

  Mors.Magne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1417

2/01/12 11:10:18 AM#29

Eve Online is not stale.

 

However, one's experience of Eve Online is determined buy the company one decides to keep in the game.

 

And Eve Online always needs new content, so each 6-monthly expansion needs to be good.

 

 

  Kiljaedenas

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 461

To err is human, but to really f*ck things up you need a computer.

2/01/12 11:47:55 AM#30

Originally posted by maplestone




Originally posted by Jowen



Hi. I'm an EVE'r. Dunno what you're talking about.











 




Mission, mission, mission, mission, mission, "epic story arc!"




( it's structured a little differently, but it's there )





 


Yes, it's there, but dude...that's maybe 10% of the game content at best. If that's all you think Eve is, you didn't put any kind of effort into discovering the deeper aspects of it.


Where's the any key?

  Konfess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 695

2/01/12 11:50:39 AM#31

When players bemoan, 'face-rolling, questhub-hopping, dungeon-findering theme parks'.  They are saying that they want a FPS MMO.  But when you give them one in the form of APB, we find what they really want is a bunch of RPG players to pwn on. 


In you description of APB Reloaded, you mentions the difficulty of trying to “Quest” while being shot at.  That’s because the purpose of those quest is to make you a sitting duck for ganking FPS players.  Why did APB fail, because the easy targets left the game.  Once APB became filled with equally skilled FPS players the “FUN” was lost.


Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  Rohn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3739

2/01/12 12:12:55 PM#32
Originally posted by Konfess

When players bemoan, 'face-rolling, questhub-hopping, dungeon-findering theme parks'.  They are saying that they want a FPS MMO.  But when you give them one in the form of APB, we find what they really want is a bunch of RPG players to pwn on. 


In you description of APB Reloaded, you mentions the difficulty of trying to “Quest” while being shot at.  That’s because the purpose of those quest is to make you a sitting duck for ganking FPS players.  Why did APB fail, because the easy targets left the game.  Once APB became filled with equally skilled FPS players the “FUN” was lost.

 

I think the problem is a lot deeper than that, and goes toward basic game design.

In most current games, most of which are themepark, the only meaningful activity the game's designers provide is character progression through repetitive instancing.  That's it.  It may be a PvE or PvP instance, but the only worthwhile activities are run through instances - instances that take characters out of the game world, and instances that do not take advantage of having a massive playerbase or persistent world.  A lobby game largely provides the same functionality.

As a result, at endgame, the "big persistent worlds" in most games become nothing more than huge, useless lobbies.

Game companies spend tens of millions of dollars, or more, to design and develop large persistent game worlds to attract massive populations to these worlds.  It's hard to discern why they bother, because they generally fail to take advantage of that population in any significant way.

Seriously, they create a game world, filling it with hundreds or thousands of concurrent players, and the only thing they can think to offer such a potential virtual society is repetitive instance-based gear grinding?  That's it?  What a waste.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

2/01/12 12:25:11 PM#33

Yeah, I think it mostly comes down to the investors and the executives at the larger publishers. A non-buggy, feature rich, content rich game that uses upto date engines and graphics takes quite a bit of cash to produce. It takes even more to market it so you grab the attention of enough gamers to try the game...instead of checking out the latest AAA rehash that has large flashy adds everwhere you look.


Investors and executives tend to be risk averse.... they also tend to not be very familiar with gaming and gamers in general. The decision makers at the top levels of many of these companies tend to be more familiar with terms like ROI and NASDAQ then they are with terms like THAC0. What that tends to mean is that they don't have much ability/confidence themselves to understand what sort of game development "risks" are decent bets to take from the ones that are crappy bets.


What they try and do (and this happens in most sectors, not just games) is copy a known successfull model/formula thinking it will be just as successfull for them...and essentialy give them a license to print cash. That works great if your product happens to be toilet paper or diesel fuel.... not so much for artistic works like games/novels/movies, etc.


I'll probably get flamed for this but WoW actualy IS a good game (or at least it was back when I played it maybe 5-7 years ago). It does what it does well. WoW clone #356 is NOT. Even if it's well put together in itself...there is so many times you can play the same thing and enjoy it.


It's like ham on rye with mustard. If you put it together well it may be a great sandwich. However after 90 days straight of eating it for breakfast, lunch and dinner, most people are going to get sick of even the best made ham on rye with mustard. Problem is, the people who actualy have the money to try to make something else are afraid to try... and because they aren't really sandwich makers or sandwich eaters themselves... they don't have much insight into what other combos might work and which ones won't.... to them peanut butter and pickles sounds as good as peanut butter and jelly.


So the only guys that are actually willing to try a different combination and maybe have some insight into what combinations MIGHT work well...are the ones that can only afford to buy thier ingrediants from the bargain bin....and even though peanut butter and jelly is a good combo....you can't make a good sandwich with rancid peanut butter and slimy jelly.


  k-damage

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 751

2/01/12 12:25:21 PM#34

That was a great, mature article. Hearted.

To answer the question : there is always a way to innovate, whatever you create. There's no excuse for games to be so much a rehash of the last flavor of the year.

The real problem I thinnk is that a lot of game designers, and decision makers are simply not gamers themselves. Or at most are very casual gamers. As long as a game developer leeches his ideas inside his own love of gaming, he will find tons of great concepts.

Look at Guild Wars 2 : This game design is obviously the maturation of ArenaNet's will to play their own vision of a better MMO. Games should be made by gamers, not investors.

 

edit : GrumpyMel2 beat me to it :)

***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3117

Veni, Vidi, Converti

2/01/12 12:43:51 PM#35

Minecraft with more multiplayer and objectives etc could sprout some mmo-ish interest, if the community tends that way.




Trying to think differently, most mmos are begin with a game developed first with market potential/targetted niche AND THEN with the aim to establish a community there that then regularly pays and plays.... perhaps if some process of making a community first (a more robust community in some way) THEN producing an mmo to fit it with perhaps more player/community in-put into the process (some form of buy-in / personal investment from ground up) or at least the community has something a little more solid to it than chasing the next best mmo... who knows something magical could happen? : P





 

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2778

2/01/12 1:08:55 PM#36

Originally posted by Kiljaedenas




Originally posted by maplestone











Originally posted by Jowen








Hi. I'm an EVE'r. Dunno what you're talking about.























 








Mission, mission, mission, mission, mission, "epic story arc!"








( it's structured a little differently, but it's there )











 




Yes, it's there, but dude...that's maybe 10% of the game content at best. If that's all you think Eve is, you didn't put any kind of effort into discovering the deeper aspects of it.





 


But that's not different than those that say WoW and all current themeparks are nothing more than lobby-based instance-grinders because that is how people use them?


I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

2/01/12 1:10:23 PM#37

If shooters haven't changed much, how come I hate BF3 and CoD, pining for the days of UT2004 and Q3A?  and that's just multiplayer.  As for SP shooters, I dunno, kinda thought games from Halflife, to Bioshock, to Borderlands have all taken the genre in some interesting directions.. but if what you're saying is true, none of those games are any different from one another?

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Mors.Magne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1417

2/01/12 1:43:30 PM#38
Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by Kiljaedenas




Originally posted by maplestone











Originally posted by Jowen








Hi. I'm an EVE'r. Dunno what you're talking about.























 







Mission, mission, mission, mission, mission, "epic story arc!"








( it's structured a little differently, but it's there )











 



Yes, it's there, but dude...that's maybe 10% of the game content at best. If that's all you think Eve is, you didn't put any kind of effort into discovering the deeper aspects of it.





 

But that's not different than those that say WoW and all current themeparks are nothing more than lobby-based instance-grinders because that is how people use them?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean because you've used a double negative + an 'apples and pears' comparison!

 

First of all, generally speaking, people don't say that themepark games are lobby-based-instance-grinders, until they get to the end game. This is because eventually the planned themepark rides run out.

 

With regard to Eve, the PvE missions are really only 'training and income' until you feel ready to join a player fleet. Then the game is all about PvP-ing with other fleets. Some players on your side will enevitably love to mine and manufacture and they will replace your ship losses (as long as you do what your Fleet Commander says).

 

The 'grind' in Eve therefore, is PvP fleet action. However, you are playing with and against highly unpredicatble and often emotional people. Fleet teamspeak with 200+ people can get intense.

 

This probably won't answer all your questions, but it might give you a clearer picture.

  sanman7890

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/11
Posts: 97

2/01/12 1:49:42 PM#39

Good damn article, bravo.


  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2778

2/01/12 2:14:25 PM#40

Originally posted by Mors.Magne


Originally posted by WhiteLantern






 




But that's not different than those that say WoW and all current themeparks are nothing more than lobby-based instance-grinders because that is how people use them?



I'm not entirely sure what you mean because you've used a double negative + an 'apples and pears' comparison!


 


First of all, generally speaking, people don't say that themepark games are lobby-based-instance-grinders, until they get to the end game. This is because eventually the planned themepark rides run out.


 


With regard to Eve, the PvE missions are really only 'training and income' until you feel ready to join a player fleet. Then the game is all about PvP-ing with other fleets. Some players on your side will enevitably love to mine and manufacture and they will replace your ship losses (as long as you do what your Fleet Commander says).


 


The 'grind' in Eve therefore, is PvP fleet action. However, you are playing with and against highly unpredicatble and often emotional people. Fleet teamspeak with 200+ people can get intense.


 


This probably won't answer all your questions, but it might give you a clearer picture.



 


Ummm, actually, it's not a double negative. Each negative takes place in independant parts of the sentence so they don't cancel each other out. I could have typed: ........that say: "WoW and.......use them" for clarity, but I asumed that if the grammar nazis would get me, it would be for the proper infraction.


Also, I was comparing one sweeping generalization to another so......my apples apear to be comparing fine.


I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search