Trending Games | ArcheAge | Rift | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,775,287 Users Online:0
Games:722  Posts:6,190,034
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SWTOR was a WOW Killer.....

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search
60 posts found
  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

 
OP  1/30/12 11:50:19 AM#1

Had the game been made back in 2005 when they first announced it.

I honestly think they did a lot of research on all the MMO's before they announced they were doing it, and then stopped.  It doesn't seem like they've taken into account what has worked in MMO's the past 7 years, and what hasn't. 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15282

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

1/30/12 11:58:42 AM#2

This is one of the major problems ( i can see) with working on an MMO, or any project with a long development/conceptual phase. Before you can start developing you need a concept, player trends during one period may be completely different by the end of the final conceptual period, meaning your concept is already outdated.

Keeping up with these trends is possible ( GW2) but i think they already had a plan to move away from the WOW model and expand (impressively) on their own design and concepts.

You aslo have to consider seamlessness and flow, the game has to tie togther, each facet should facilitate the next, which is already at ricky subject with TOR, it's not there, but much further in "mixing it up" they'd have a Frankenstein's monster on their hands, IMO anyway.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

1/30/12 11:59:34 AM#3
Has been said many times but yes to me this game feels like it should of been released a decade ago for a number of reasons all that have been discussed to death already

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

 
OP  1/30/12 12:03:48 PM#4
Originally posted by Distopia

This is one of the major problems ( i can see) with working on an MMO, or any project with a long development/conceptual phase. Before you can start developing you need a concept, player trends during one period may be completely different by the end of the final conceptual period, meaning your concept is already outdated.

Keeping up with these trends is possible ( GW2) but i think they already had a plan to move away from the WOW model and expand (impressively) on their own design and concepts.

You aslo have to consider seamlessness and flow, the game has to tie togther, each facet should facilitate the next, which is already at ricky subject with TOR, it's not there, but much further in "mixing it up" they'd have a Frankenstein's monster on their hands, IMO anyway.

 

I think the problem is that a lot of the team probably didn't play MMO's, and those who did, only played WoW.  And then stopped playing as WoW had to innovate a bit to keep their cherished spot.  Yes, I hate WoW, but they had to make their quests a bit more in-depth, reduce the emphasis on 40 man raids, diversify rewards, etc.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15282

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

1/30/12 12:19:21 PM#5
Originally posted by iceman00
Originally posted by Distopia

This is one of the major problems ( i can see) with working on an MMO, or any project with a long development/conceptual phase. Before you can start developing you need a concept, player trends during one period may be completely different by the end of the final conceptual period, meaning your concept is already outdated.

Keeping up with these trends is possible ( GW2) but i think they already had a plan to move away from the WOW model and expand (impressively) on their own design and concepts.

You aslo have to consider seamlessness and flow, the game has to tie togther, each facet should facilitate the next, which is already at ricky subject with TOR, it's not there, but much further in "mixing it up" they'd have a Frankenstein's monster on their hands, IMO anyway.

 

I think the problem is that a lot of the team probably didn't play MMO's, and those who did, only played WoW.  And then stopped playing as WoW had to innovate a bit to keep their cherished spot.  Yes, I hate WoW, but they had to make their quests a bit more in-depth, reduce the emphasis on 40 man raids, diversify rewards, etc.

I'd guess this is untrue, many of their devs are from older MMOs like DAOC, SWG, WAR, Shadowbane, etc, etc...

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

 
OP  1/30/12 12:28:22 PM#6
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by iceman00
Originally posted by Distopia

This is one of the major problems ( i can see) with working on an MMO, or any project with a long development/conceptual phase. Before you can start developing you need a concept, player trends during one period may be completely different by the end of the final conceptual period, meaning your concept is already outdated.

Keeping up with these trends is possible ( GW2) but i think they already had a plan to move away from the WOW model and expand (impressively) on their own design and concepts.

You aslo have to consider seamlessness and flow, the game has to tie togther, each facet should facilitate the next, which is already at ricky subject with TOR, it's not there, but much further in "mixing it up" they'd have a Frankenstein's monster on their hands, IMO anyway.

 

I think the problem is that a lot of the team probably didn't play MMO's, and those who did, only played WoW.  And then stopped playing as WoW had to innovate a bit to keep their cherished spot.  Yes, I hate WoW, but they had to make their quests a bit more in-depth, reduce the emphasis on 40 man raids, diversify rewards, etc.

I'd guess this is untrue, many of their devs are from older MMOs like DAOC, SWG, WAR, Shadowbane, etc, etc...

There's a difference between developing a game and actually playing it.  One of the classic rules of the MMO world:  players know their game better than the Devs.  A developer can code a system.  But they can't tell you if it actually works in the game.  Only a player can do that.

  Talin

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 825

You only live once... make it count!

1/30/12 12:29:51 PM#7

SWTOR was going to be a WOW killer.... and then it got high.

I'm still enjoying the game at a slow and steady pace, so regardless of what anyone else thinks, it is still the best MMORPG available today to me.

  SkillCosby

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/23/08
Posts: 694

1/30/12 12:35:43 PM#8

There is no excuse.

This is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game. There is nothing massive about tiny raids, tiny groups, and instanced PvP.

They completely ignored the social realm. How on earth can you be a dev and not realize the importance of good virtual community. This replaced SOCIAL with STORY. Thus, we now have this Massive Co'op Game that people must pay monthly for.

 

SWTOR is the ultimate example of ADVERTISING & HYPE over GAMEPLAY & ORIGINALITY.

  nikoliath

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 1182

An MMO FAN

enjoying
SWTOR
GW2 pre-purchased

1/30/12 12:39:04 PM#9
Originally posted by iceman00
Originally posted by Distopia

This is one of the major problems ( i can see) with working on an MMO, or any project with a long development/conceptual phase. Before you can start developing you need a concept, player trends during one period may be completely different by the end of the final conceptual period, meaning your concept is already outdated.

Keeping up with these trends is possible ( GW2) but i think they already had a plan to move away from the WOW model and expand (impressively) on their own design and concepts.

You aslo have to consider seamlessness and flow, the game has to tie togther, each facet should facilitate the next, which is already at ricky subject with TOR, it's not there, but much further in "mixing it up" they'd have a Frankenstein's monster on their hands, IMO anyway.

 

I think the problem is that a lot of the team probably didn't play MMO's, and those who did, only played WoW.  And then stopped playing as WoW had to innovate a bit to keep their cherished spot.  Yes, I hate WoW, but they had to make their quests a bit more in-depth, reduce the emphasis on 40 man raids, diversify rewards, etc.

you serious? Woah you are.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15282

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

1/30/12 12:41:12 PM#10
Originally posted by iceman00

There's a difference between developing a game and actually playing it.  One of the classic rules of the MMO world:  players know their game better than the Devs.  A developer can code a system.  But they can't tell you if it actually works in the game.  Only a player can do that.

To me the logical fallacy is that MMO devs by nature are not gamers, why would someone subject themselves to this line of work when there are easier, more rewarding jobs to be had for those individuals? It just wouldn't make sense.

Maybe you're talking about the suits? In that case I'd agree, they care about the business end, they're the ones deciding on focus testing, research, analysis, advertising,, etc...

Second what you just said would be akin to saying a musician couldn't tell a good musical score apart from a bad one, which is all kinds of wrong (in so many, many ways). There's a difference between knowing what's good, and what will have mass appeal.

You're forgetting devs are controlled by the corp, the corp decides what directions they can take, not the guys sitting down actually doing the work.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  User Deleted
1/30/12 12:48:04 PM#11

The problem is nobody has the stones to be original. A company with original ideas could spend 5 years on an MMO and it would still be fresh after dev time. It would be nice to see something besides a flock of, dare I type it? WOW clones. Anybody besides me think Titan will me miles away from WOW? If it is and it makes money you can expect 10 years of Titan clones to follow because originality has dried up.

  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2298

1/30/12 12:50:49 PM#12

Have the corporate leads really had the reigns of projects over the past 10 years or has that only changed after MMOs went mainstread with potential of huge profits?

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

  User Deleted
1/30/12 12:51:59 PM#13
Originally posted by iceman00
Originally posted by Distopia

[snip]

 

I think the problem is that a lot of the team probably didn't play MMO's, and those who did, only played WoW.  And then stopped playing as WoW had to innovate a bit to keep their cherished spot.  Yes, I hate WoW, but they had to make their quests a bit more in-depth, reduce the emphasis on 40 man raids, diversify rewards, etc.

have to completely disagree with you there i don't think a SINGLE person who developed this game has ever played anything other then SPRPG games, they didn't even bring in kids as experts on this one and it shows with what all they missed.

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

 
OP  1/30/12 12:53:49 PM#14
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by iceman00
Originally posted by Distopia

[snip]

 

I think the problem is that a lot of the team probably didn't play MMO's, and those who did, only played WoW.  And then stopped playing as WoW had to innovate a bit to keep their cherished spot.  Yes, I hate WoW, but they had to make their quests a bit more in-depth, reduce the emphasis on 40 man raids, diversify rewards, etc.

have to completely disagree with you there i don't think a SINGLE person who developed this game has ever played anything other then SPRPG games, they didn't even bring in kids as experts on this one and it shows with what all they missed.

LOL okay you got me there.

  User Deleted
1/30/12 12:53:55 PM#15
Originally posted by Rusty715

The problem is nobody has the stones to be original. A company with original ideas could spend 5 years on an MMO and it would still be fresh after dev time. It would be nice to see something besides a flock of, dare I type it? WOW clones. Anybody besides me think Titan will me miles away from WOW? If it is and it makes money you can expect 10 years of Titan clones to follow because originality has dried up.

Got three things to say to that Guild Wars 2, Archeage, and Wushu. Nothing like we've seen in the past. They are actively trying to break the mold and i will be right there with my dollar if they hold true to their designs. I'm excited.

 

Oh almost forgot, they do as devs have to take an active roll to see and pay attention to what other games are doing that are working WHILE they are developing I've noticed that Anet has done this twice now, said one thing then changed to a better plan after it was shown that something was working better in another community of gamers under a different title. So, it's not supposed to be just a "let's take a snapshot of how it is now" and not ever update that snapshot of what's happening after that snapshot. That's just not going to work with anything. That would be like taking a look at cars in the 1970's and spending ten years making a car only to find no one wants it because it doesn't have any of the features of the other modern day cars in the 1980's. 

If this is what they did it definitely shows.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7679

Logic be damned!

1/30/12 12:55:20 PM#16

You don't risk 200+ million dollar investment on something unproven, unless you have SO much money you can stand to take a bet on that 200 million.

TOR isn't a WoW killer, and no game will ever be because the only things killing WoW are

A) age

B) itself

The Western made AAA mega-budget Sandbox MMO is not happening people - better you start to accept it.

GW2 is the closest we are going to get for a long, long while.

However:

The Undead Labs L4 or whatever it is might just suprise us though, I'm waiting to see.

Of course, always the possibility EQNext or Titan will completely redefine the genre.

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

 
OP  1/30/12 12:57:59 PM#17
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by iceman00

There's a difference between developing a game and actually playing it.  One of the classic rules of the MMO world:  players know their game better than the Devs.  A developer can code a system.  But they can't tell you if it actually works in the game.  Only a player can do that.

To me the logical fallacy is that MMO devs by nature are not gamers, why would someone subject themselves to this line of work when there are easier, more rewarding jobs to be had for those individuals? It just wouldn't make sense.

Maybe you're talking about the suits? In that case I'd agree, they care about the business end, they're the ones deciding on focus testing, research, analysis, advertising,, etc...

Second what you just said would be akin to saying a musician couldn't tell a good musical score apart from a bad one, which is all kinds of wrong (in so many, many ways). There's a difference between knowing what's good, and what will have mass appeal.

You're forgetting devs are controlled by the corp, the corp decides what directions they can take, not the guys sitting down actually doing the work.

Simple.  A writer can recognize a great writing work.  But most the time, he is so busy writing it, he has others who aren't as involved in the process give criticism.  They see things he can't, because he is so invested in the project.

It isn't just "the suits."   Bioware has proven that in other markets, they can make something polished, and even bring a few fresh things to the table.  One of the main criticisms of this game so far is just the very poor design and thought process that went into things.

What you had was people who thought MMO's could be a cash cow, but really have no understanding of how an MMO becomes a cash cow when done properly.

  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 1895

Posts deleted: 12589457

1/30/12 12:58:46 PM#18
Originally posted by BadSpock

Of course, always the possibility EQNext or Titan will completely redefine the genre.

Talking about a SOE and a Blizzard game, I'm afraid most of the "redefinition of the genre" may come in terms of unwelcomed features like major cash shops,  RMT-AHs and tons of pay-to-use-them gimmicks like smartphone apps and such.

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

 
OP  1/30/12 1:00:30 PM#19
Originally posted by BadSpock

You don't risk 200+ million dollar investment on something unproven, unless you have SO much money you can stand to take a bet on that 200 million.

TOR isn't a WoW killer, and no game will ever be because the only things killing WoW are

A) age

B) itself

The Western made AAA mega-budget Sandbox MMO is not happening people - better you start to accept it.

GW2 is the closest we are going to get for a long, long while.

However:

The Undead Labs L4 or whatever it is might just suprise us though, I'm waiting to see.

Of course, always the possibility EQNext or Titan will completely redefine the genre.

A game doesn't need to be a sandbox to catch my eyes.   The problem with investing that 200 million is they didn't follow a lot of the "time tested" things.  

You can't blame the suits for the debacle that was the 1.1 patch.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7121

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/30/12 1:02:14 PM#20
Originally posted by Distopia

This is one of the major problems ( i can see) with working on an MMO, or any project with a long development/conceptual phase. Before you can start developing you need a concept, player trends during one period may be completely different by the end of the final conceptual period, meaning your concept is already outdated.

I completely agree.

The only way for these games to actually be interesting is for the developer too follow their own vision.

This is an incredibly fickle market to make a game for TBH... I guess thats because it's internet based at it's core and trends in thought come and go quickly in this space, as we all know.

Keeping up with these trends is possible ( GW2) but i think they already had a plan to move away from the WOW model and expand (impressively) on their own design and concepts.

I think Anet have always been about their own vision, which maybe explains why GW2 looks like a modern take on the genre rather then a regurgitated mess.

 

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search