Originally posted by Vegetto

There's no real reason behind the graphics unless they were on purpose, i.e. placeholder. The time it takes to make those compared to more realistic models is little. It has been said the graphics are placeholders, which makes sense to test the systems.

Where has this been said? Would be interesting to know more about it if it's true.

Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Vegetto

There's no real reason behind the graphics unless they were on purpose, i.e. placeholder. The time it takes to make those compared to more realistic models is little. It has been said the graphics are placeholders, which makes sense to test the systems.

Where has this been said? Would be interesting to know more about it if it's true.

it was said in the video with the devs and total bisket. they state that alot of the graphics are placeholders while they finish up the final art. namely the lack of graphics on the windmill the dev rotates and moves to place while talking about building stuff ect.

Originally posted by Ichmen

Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Vegetto

There's no real reason behind the graphics unless they were on purpose, i.e. placeholder. The time it takes to make those compared to more realistic models is little. It has been said the graphics are placeholders, which makes sense to test the systems.

Where has this been said? Would be interesting to know more about it if it's true.

it was said in the video with the devs and total bisket. they state that alot of the graphics are placeholders while they finish up the final art. namely the lack of graphics on the windmill the dev rotates and moves to place while talking about building stuff ect.

Hm.. I thought that just meant that the graphics would be a bit more advanced in the finished game, i.e. more polygons, more lighting effects + shadows, perhaps higher resolution options etc for the existing models.

He never says that the overall design will be replaced by a more realistic look.

After all, the devs seem to like the cartoony stuff; H&H looks like a children's book from the 80's so I guess they think that look is cool or something.

Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Ichmen

Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Vegetto

There's no real reason behind the graphics unless they were on purpose, i.e. placeholder. The time it takes to make those compared to more realistic models is little. It has been said the graphics are placeholders, which makes sense to test the systems.

Where has this been said? Would be interesting to know more about it if it's true.

it was said in the video with the devs and total bisket. they state that alot of the graphics are placeholders while they finish up the final art. namely the lack of graphics on the windmill the dev rotates and moves to place while talking about building stuff ect.

Hm.. I thought that just meant that the graphics would be a bit more advanced in the finished game, i.e. more polygons, more lighting effects + shadows, perhaps higher resolution options etc for the existing models.

He never says that the overall design will be replaced by a more realistic look.

After all, the devs seem to like the cartoony stuff; H&H looks like a children's book from the 80's so I guess they think that look is cool or something.

well a majority of the graphics are staying from what i can find out on salem. but most of the "alpha" videos out right now are loaded with placeholders so its best to wait for a more finalized release before passing judgement on the graphics.  they are going with a sorta ye oldie  brothers grimm sorta feel so everything is kinda moody and cartoonish (i think its their way of explaining the "monsters" that populate the game)  HnH has abit of a realistic look to it, just its done up in java (not a very graphic heavy support program) and like salem they wanted a sorta mystical/myth style of graphics i think. not your realism you would have in say AoC but more realistic then say WoW or such. 

while i like salem's graphics on the same hand i hate the sprite graphics. ><" hopefully the ridgedness is corrected before launch i dont like barbie style toons id rather a tad more realistic avatar even if its a touch storybook cartoon

I liked the graphics in the trailer(s) but yeah, i just can't do it with the graphics being so bad. Everytyhing flickers and its just awful, i feel like its <1999.

Maybe with the good response they are hopefully getting, an investor or publisher can get them some artist talent/$$ and make something that looks Torchlight-ish or even just like the trailers / concept art would be fine.

Originally posted by allegria

I liked the graphics in the trailer(s) but yeah, i just can't do it with the graphics being so bad. Everytyhing flickers and its just awful, i feel like its <1999.

Maybe with the good response they are hopefully getting, an investor or publisher can get them some artist talent/$$ and make something that looks Torchlight-ish or even just like the trailers / concept art would be fine.

 

 

 

 

ummm you do know paradox is the publisher right?? aka they have a publisher.... the graphics are more advanced then their self published game haven and hearth.. which is a 2d/2.5d eagle eyed viewed game.. 

Originally posted by Biskop

Most of the people following Salem seem to be bothered by the "cutesy" character designs and overall cartoony look of the game. Personally I can't understand what the devs are thinking; doll-like low-poly models with enormous heads just doesn't fit with a dark Lovecraftian world featuring witchcraft, forest monsters, and permadeath.

So while I'm extremely excited by the promised features, I'm also seriously worried that many people will not even try Salem because of horrible it looks. I will probably play it regardless (and perhaps even get used to the design), but I wonder: is there a real risk that the game loses a lot of potential players due to this?

I know that gameplay is more important than graphics, but that does not mean graphics is not important at all. In today's overcrowded MMO market, a lot of people won't look twice at something they consider ugly. And when it comes to Salem, even players who enjoy sandbox games and innovative features like permadeath are appaled by the ridiculous char models.

What do you think?

There's a point at which Graphics & Gameplay must balance each other perfectly. If the gameplay is somewhat enjoyable the graphics can be shite. 

HOWEVER, the gameplay fact for Salem does NOT convey properly with the art & graphics of Salem. I'm sorry, but not a SINGLE soul I've shown Salem to will play it because of the horrible graphics direction. I don't care HOW SMALL the development team is. Look at what Notch did with Minecraft ALL BY HIMSELF. Even Minecraft's graphics are BETTER, and FIT minecraft perfectly, than Salem.

Salem already has one foot in the grave until they decide to fix the graphics my friend.

The graphics are ugly, but it;s the top-down stile that puts me off.

Great idea, sounds like interesting game play, but in a game with perma-death and PVP, I want to be able to see what is going on 20 feet from me.

Originally posted by Ichmen

Originally posted by allegria

I liked the graphics in the trailer(s) but yeah, i just can't do it with the graphics being so bad. Everytyhing flickers and its just awful, i feel like its <1999.

Maybe with the good response they are hopefully getting, an investor or publisher can get them some artist talent/$$ and make something that looks Torchlight-ish or even just like the trailers / concept art would be fine.

 

 

 

 

ummm you do know paradox is the publisher right?? aka they have a publisher.... the graphics are more advanced then their self published game haven and hearth.. which is a 2d/2.5d eagle eyed viewed game.. 

   Well maybe paradox should get them some $$ to make some reasonable graphics.. i mean I felt like i was playing Doom 1 or Doom 2 or something.   

Feels like a shame to me, but its hard to look at the game the way it is :(

Originally posted by Cruoris

i dont mind the graphics at all, in fact, i think they have some much needed personality.  i think the anachronicistic flare will really stand out, when semi toon burtonesque half men are slaughtering eachother and waging war on carnivorous witches.

 

this is definately a game for mature people, and by including pseudo cutesy bobble headed avatars, the devs have in a single stroke banished at least half of the mindless 15 year old l33t gankers who wont even touch this game.

 

im very happy that i will only be playing salem with a community of people who from the very start, had to be mature enough to get past superficial cuteness.

 

and even not counting that, i think the graphicx express alot more personality that two thirds of the high end graphic monsters you usually see on MMORPG.com.   this game is going to rock.

I laugh at people who look at graphics first, sure it can have an impact on liking a game over time, yet they could quite simply have your character change depending on your choices ingame. For example, if you kill alot of players, you look like the wicked witch from the west, the wicked stepmother from snow white, and so on. If you chose a good role you look like a good person in the same vein. A little cliche perhaps, but maybe they have another plan since they're placeholder graphics atm.

Someone said that Runescape was crud graphic wise, and this is where I agree, graphics can be changed, modified or have new clothes that make you look like you want. If the gameplay is crud, or the world just doesn't mesh, then what's the point.

Some may even argue about other games like WoW, EvE, or say Elder Scrolls (god forbid an MMO coming) and try to compare which may possibly be valid some some way. But to base the graphics fully in this area is absurd. I loved the original Elder Scrolls, but Oblivion and Skyrim might have looked better but was shallow and empty and plain boring.

When it comes down to it, I'd prefer a game with a world that breathes on it's own merits, where I can explore and immerse myself inside it, then as long as I have a chance to be apart of the world I'm in, then it has fun factor. In the end though, nearly all games I've played of late, be it SP, MP, or an MMO, they're all boring and shallow.

When I get a chance to play this game, then I shall see how deep the hole goes, if it has next to nothing, then I bury it and leave. Having a huge timesink isn't the issue either, games lately are (imho) way too easy, repeative, and give not much back for you as a reward for playing. While I'm at it, having a huge amount of unlocks and achievements is SO shallow, it's like they're covering the fact that there isn't anything in their game.

In the end, as a player, I feel ripped off and start to not play games because of this shallowness. Until I find a game that is fun I shall keep looking....

I think the biggest deterrent for me personally, is how low people seem to able to go in the Beta. There are literally absolutely no rules as far as I know and that's fine and dandy as long you expect the people to behave reasonably. However, what happens when someone or a group of people decide to become the worst douchebags possible?

I just can imagine people paving floor with harrassing messages like "Mike, you are fag, your mother is a whore and I hope you kill yourself, you worthless piece of shit". What happens if some people start offering lots of silver to get other people to harrass and hunt a player even if that player has done nothing that could reasonable warrant a such treatment? It can be a as silly reason as a character just saying "hi" to the wrong person. What happens, if they start hunting a person and every character that person makes?

It is reasonable to attempt to break the defenses of other large villages. It is reasonable to hunt the character of someone that scammed someone you know or stole/killed/attacked them. It is not reasonable to start a tremendous harrasment-campaign and hunting every character of a person whose only crime is that he said "hi" once.  However, the problem is: what is stopping them from being "unreasonable"? At this point in beta: absolutely nothing, and I think that is a major deterrent. 

welcome to the haven and hearth mentality twothreefour.  people in salam are also from hnh where alot of douchbaggery has taken place, to the point whole villages of people have rage quit. 

fact is the game is built for player run policing BUT there is nothing in place to prevent players from doing what they want, if i want to harrass you until you quit the game, i can nothing will prevent it.  just begging and paying others to "off" me wont stop me from doing it. 

which is one of the faults with the mechanic they used for HnH and its carried over to salam from what i have read. 

players can and will be douchbags and sadly its will with in the realm of the game to do so,  you can say hi to me and 30seconds later im PKing you simply because i want to.  it happens far to often it seems. 

Yes, there are a lot of bad apples in H&H, but strangely I always had the feeling that there are more of them on the forums than in the game. Same might be true for Salem. Just from reading the Salem forums I recognise a few names and amongst them some of the H&H Internet bullies. You know the guys, the ones that think they're tough and hardcore because they play a computer game. It's laughable.

In game, however, there really isn't that much PK-ing, sure, you get your city (guild) conflicts - but even that doesn't happen very frequently. And - if you take some caution - it's not too difficult to avoid player conflict if you want. Of course, if you build your homestead near a big raider village - well, you will get raided.

I played as hermit twice in H&H, never even had a stone wall but made it with a palisade as defense and was quite a juicy target for all but the bigger villages - but never got raided. Just do the sensible thing: explore and know your corner of the world very well before you even think of settling, make sure your settlement isn't visible from a river, don't let people see that you have valuable things on your homestead, hide your claim well away from major settlements somewhere in the forest, etc.

I just came across this game yesterday when I came across a Salem gameplay video and was very excited about an MMO with a very very deep craftfing system.  Then I later found out about the open world pvp and permadeath.  Then my bubble of game joy as large as a galaxy ..... exploded.  I will not be playing this game because of the pvp and permadeath.  Otherwise I would.  I played EVE for a while and really enjoyed the crafting there but quit it because of the pvp implementation.  Why can't we have a deep crafting game with an acceptable pvp option???

I enjoyed the frist few days but than couldn't get into the game any longer. Great concept but it makes the game more a chore than it should be.

Originally posted by Amenhoetep

I just came across this game yesterday when I came across a Salem gameplay video and was very excited about an MMO with a very very deep craftfing system.  Then I later found out about the open world pvp and permadeath.  Then my bubble of game joy as large as a galaxy ..... exploded.  I will not be playing this game because of the pvp and permadeath.  Otherwise I would.  I played EVE for a while and really enjoyed the crafting there but quit it because of the pvp implementation.  Why can't we have a deep crafting game with an acceptable pvp option???

I am with you there. I definitely think there should be the option for pvp but to have it so someone can just walk up and kill you, especially since Salem has perma death its a little rediculous to think after spending a few weeks crafting a character and his skills, claim, etc. that some random person could just grief you and kill your character just because and you'd have to start all over again.

Other than that I am really enjoying the game.

I have about 20-30 hours into the game.  I have yet to run into anyone hostile.  I think the permadeath is also a real deterrent to PVP, but I still think it is not a positive aspect to the game.  I have enjoyed roaming around collecting items and crafting items to sell back in Boston.  The game is very much a version 2.0 of the developer's original title, Haven and Hearth.  The game mechanics feel much the same, though the graphics are better.

I think the game has real potential so long as the devs realize that permadeath on a slow-grind MMO is just not an appealing proposition.  Get rid of that feature and they have a real gem of a sandbox game!

logged in for 3 mins, logged out and deleted.

if I want a 1995 game I can play runescape

Originally posted by Amenhoetep

I just came across this game yesterday when I came across a Salem gameplay video and was very excited about an MMO with a very very deep craftfing system.  Then I later found out about the open world pvp and permadeath.  Then my bubble of game joy as large as a galaxy ..... exploded.  I will not be playing this game because of the pvp and permadeath.  Otherwise I would.  I played EVE for a while and really enjoyed the crafting there but quit it because of the pvp implementation.  Why can't we have a deep crafting game with an acceptable pvp option???

Come to Wurm Online and enjoy PVP in the Epic cluster or PVE and NO PVP in the Freedom cluster.  The crafting is deep and very rewarding.  I have been playing 3 years and still have not maxed my skills.  http://www.wurmonline.com/