Not all of us rushed to the end and got bored. A very large chunk of us working people, people with families and social lives - we who didnt rush to the end, are still very happily plodding through. 

I started on Early Access Day One. And I am now level 34. I have played most days.

Most of my guild is the same, with a few of the unemployed guys having hit 50 last week. The rest are all mid-30's.

The game is not designed for unemployed grinders. Sorry folks, but thats the way it is.

I totally agree with the OP. I hate that these new games are just about end game grind and PvP. Where is the chance to experience the world the devs have made.

It took me one month with my slow going to get to 50, now I'm bored and don't know if I have will to flash another char to the boring 50. As the OP said, in older days (like EQ, which I played since Kunark came out) it took you days to get a single level. And that level actually meant something, you had worked to get that level. Nowdays you get 3-5 levels a day and getting a new level don't mean a thing except it's time to get new and better gear.

About us Beta testers of SW:tOR having done nothing during Beta. Get a life and stop whining about something you have no idea. Yes, I beta tested the game for several months before release and no I didn't do a single PvP match in that time. Why? Because PvP isn't my thing and games aren't only about PvP.

It's sad that majority of gamers nowdays seem to think that MMO's are only about endgame PvP. I really have no idea when that has happened in the MMO gamers, but it's sad as game companies will then grind out games for them and they generally keep playing few months and then quit. Bringing the game and the company down with them.

Heh, add to that this new 'PAtch all Friday Night' debaucle, and you have recipe for dissatisfied customers... 

To show my Dissatisfaction, I un-subscribed from TOR - seriously, a patch on a friday night?  won't be up again till Saturday morning? WTF man! 

so, now I'm unsubscribed, and we'll see if I re-up. that was really lame TOR, I'm Chalk Full of Caffine, and had a group of friends, all online and in Vent readdy to play for the night, and you go and shud down your servers?  

Who does that in this day and age!!!! not even the worst games, that's who.

Sigh - any way, my sub is gone.  Can you earn it back?

zWolf -out.

welcome to casual mmo's which make allllll the money if you want a difficult hard lvling game that takes forever that will make just enuff money maby to keep running and people say things about WoW which the lvling for that game is far easier to reach max lvl then swtor is by alot i go tto max 50 lvl in about a week of alot of game time and in WoW get to max lvl ins 3 days tops no problem with no help.and WoW is a cash cow now look at all the hardcore games hard to lvl they don't have the pop like the casual ones do so if you want a good game like wow with hard lvling and whatever else it will be hard to see happen due to the companies want to make the $$$$ and not make you hardcores happy but the casual players so they keep coming back.

GW2 will be the same wonder why it's free to play? well they don't expect much to do with the game and since it's freetoplay people will not care and be happy about the game even if it will be easy to play like WoW and others.

You can't satisy everyone so get over your selves and don't bother playing the game you complain about and shut up and go play some MW3 where all the noobs go lol.

Welcome to a new mmo where in the first months you will get downtimes that are not sche'ed like the ones on tuesday are so have fun QQ'ing but you will be back the QQ'ers usally do. Probly your first MMO ever that you started from start and if you say no and this never happen in those you are a LIAR since no game is perfect at launch EVER.

Also get a job and maby your lvling will slow down lol.

Originally posted by Yellowbeardd

Also get a job and maby your lvling will slow down lol.

Last time i checked internet comps and the game all costed money so? Maybe you should not  hav the 1-DioT  probelm and stop spamming lol? What you think if you post 50 times to somones 1 time that make you right. Thats what makes you a TROLL. I have a job I do not like this game it has more problems then it should I work for the state WE DO NOT WORK WEEKENDS I should be ablt to do WHATEVER I WANT on MY free TIME(ESPECIALLY WHEN I PAY FOR IT). Maybe you need to get a better jobs with weekends off not working random shift at Mikky Dee's and comming here taking out your agresion on people.

Originally posted by aSynchro

_ PvP is not balanced in SWTOR ?  GW2 and TSW will have 3 factions.

_ Leveling is too fast/easy in SWTOR ? TSW doesn't have levels and GW2 doesn't have endgame !

_ SWTOR has the same "kill 10 x" quests ? TSW will have puzzles that requiere wikipedia.

_ SWTOR's world is static, lifeless and instanced ? in GW2  hundred of players can join in the world to fight big mobs (don't know about TSW yet).

_ SWTOR's "choices" have no consequence ? GW2 will have dynamic events that change a zone for days, for everyone !

etc etc.

td/dr ; SWTOR is everything MMORPG shouldn't be. GW2/TSW will bring (some) answers to burnout syndrome.

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

1. 3 factions can be just as imba as 2 factions.  Just because I add in a third faction doesn't make it easier to balance, it probably makes it harder.  It's nice having these random FFA sessions but what happens when you still have the same class imbalance that EVERY GAME (not just MMOs) has?  Starcraft 2 was betaed almost 2 years ago and is STILL being rebalanced.  What makes you think ArenaNet will be able to get a 3-faction game right?

2. Leveling is not supposed to be hard in an MMO it is supposed to be fun.  I found SWTOR's leveling fun and could not pull myself from the story.  When the servers went down tonight i was really upset because I was really close  to finishing my smuggler story.

3. Every MMO has killing stuff quests.  There are also escort quests.  There are looting things quests.  There are destroying things quests.  There are space mini-game quests.  There are delivery quests.  There are companion/pet quests.  Just because you kept hitting the space bar every time someone talked doesn't mean the game was just about killing stuff.

4. It was designed this way on purpose.  Basically in any MMO after the first launch which inevitably loses subscription basis after a mere two weeks the starter zones and the leveling path from 1-49 is pretty empty.  So to combat that they designed the game based around a single player experience for the 1-50 leveling.  In my travels during its launch I have had nothing short of groups and have conquered a tonne of world bosses.  I actually liked this better than the standard world launch where everyone is stealing every single mob and you don't get a chance to enjoy the game.

5. Choices may not have a consequence  to you, but they do to everyone else.  Choices mean whether companion affection goes up or down.  Choices mean whether you get light side or dark side points.  Choices change the story in a dynamic way.  The only instance I did in this game was "The Esseles" and throughout the game everyone refers to me as "The Hero of The Esseles" which I assume would change.

You're looking for a game that does not exist.  If you are so upset with every MMO that comes out, try playing an RPG.  See how 'lmiting' these games feel and how little you get out of them.  I got about 100 hours of of Skyrim, I've gotten 120 hours just from leveling in SWTOR.

It's like...they want a AAA old school game, but don't want the crowd that comes with the AAA label.

I do agree very much with most of what the author said so far! Leveling IS fun! And the social aspects of an MMO is as if not more important than anything else in the game. SWTOR is just missing out many of the social interfaces, Without social aspects of the game, the game is NEVER immersive at all. It'll be no different from a single player game.

The problem with SWTOR and other current MMO games is they are quest driven. A while back, some person posted they hated "grinding" on mobs to get to level cap. I wanted to choke him for the comment. Modern games are now quest driven, and in order to make the game take longer, the fact is "you will have to add more and more quests!!!"

This means a HUGE amount of "kills 10 rats" quests and holly hail, please not that!!

Everquest and AC both were amazing games because you leveled from adventure and killing world mobs. It was "the hunt" and the danger that gave us those fond memories. It was the social cooperation of guilds working together for economy, raid mobs, and other content.

The phrase " Ding " and "Grats" came from EQ1 and it was because when you leveled in this game, it really was praise worthy. You truely accomplished somthing and the community recognized this.

When you would quest, it was for somthing very very very improtant like zone access, extremely rare item or weapon, or other very difficult things.

Please stop the quest grinding. Lets get back to world adventure and actually killing of mobs.

Your "content locusts" are just a scapegoat.

People who chew through content are not why this game is being "killed".

The pillar of story was brought to the MMO space by Bioware EA. It's the only leg this game stands on and is worth the play through for the story. Then it falls flat on it's WoW copied face. The horrid UI, everyone being the hero, the auction house, the 3 battlegrounds, ability delay, poor preformance, epic purples for tokens, the joke of PVP that ilum is, the dead and lifeless world, no combat log (many have voiced the issues with this game much better than me). Will they fix some of it, some yes, some no. The game is fundafentaly flawed because of the focus on story. There is no way they could generate the content with story to keep a subscription. Dailies, raids, and pvp are all done better elsewhere.

For a lot of people once the story ended so did the subscription.

People just play the game.  They pace these games more and more for casual players, but sometimes even casual players have a long weekend gaming binge, and that's all it takes to burn through 50 levels of content.  Devs shoot themselves in the foot, trying to be competitive.  Blaming players for that is just absurd.

Back in the early days of MMOs, it took a lot longer to level.  That was the only real difference, and it'd be difficult to get that same pacing to fly nowadays, without also moving the genre forward, making it more compelling and worthwhile.

If developers will do the leveling process longer it will mean we'll have to do more irrelevant "go kill 20 of those" quests and other rather anonismic  activities  as it is simply impossible to make the long leveling process entertaining and supported by the content and story. The truth is - WE DON'T WANT LONG BORING LEVELING just to get ot the endgame, which might be the disaster like in most MMOs. Why to invest our time into the game if we aren't even sure it will ofer us the reward in the end?  I can tell this for sure since I played UO and WoW and I am not happy with both of them. SWTOR leveling is fine (as it takes only around 3 weeks if you experience the content ) still it was much like in WoW - lots of boring go kill 20 of those quests.

The ONLY!!! solution is to make endgame MMOs + making leveling short but very entertaining - with voiceover, not limited to the conventional character combat. Short leveling will alow players to experience many classes before choosing which one to roll over with through the endgame content.

Endgame content must be made random (like randomly generated dungeons) - doing the same daily quests isn't fun ... random content will also throw some challenge at players. Currently the only challenge is to get the team of people who know how to beat this dungeon (youtube will help you to know how to beat any boss).

Also I would suggest adding social elements to the endgame content: housing, character appearence customisation, social activities not related to combat, lots of cimmunication options like extensive set of emotions and animations, clubing, dancing ect. MMOs can really learn some things from social games like Second Life ect.

We must understand that most of people here on forums are not gamers. They just like to chat and write anything. SWTOR you can play for years and you will never be bored if you are roleplayer, but most of the players today are not. Every single class have amazing story, every planet is beautiful on his own way. We must understand that never ever we will have so huge success in any mmo like it was with wow. That magic time is gonne. I can say only one--better to have 500k good players then 2 mil whiners whining all the time on general chat. SWTOR will stay for long time best sc fi mmo and it wil be more and more popular after people get bored from rest of no games without any story. I enjoy my time and from time of wow i never expirienced so much fun in gaming. But if you are not role player and you don't want to  expirience every single class  it is your fault

A lot of players are very goal focussed.  For them it is not the journey but the conclusion.

What is the point of getting x gear when it is going to be replaced in a few levels which is a few hours away when the item you are currently wearing is OK.

Why bother striving to be the best now when you are there so fleetingly.  All that wasted effort crafting when all you really want to craft is max level gear if relevant otherwise drop that profession and pick up something else.

SWTOR is a step in the right direction IMO with regards to making levelling more interesting but the journey has to be epic.

In pen and paper RPG we level once every 3-4 play sessions. Not 3-4 times in one play session. We filled the time giving our characters character.

Perhaps MMORPG are inherently fail due to lack of focus on character customization and pushing us all into the digital treadmill where we can all look the same and be the same with the same abilities. At least that retains the subs and stops the QQ

I totally agree on what has happened but so sure its 'content locusts' which is a gameplay style which certain players adopt. Those players tend to come from a console background, be younger and a growing number of them come from a smartphone background.

And it is these players who are now the majority. Being a content locust is just something this demographic does.

With all the bonus quests already there it is not like SWtOR could not slow down, we could get less xp for mobs and quests and still level up nicely. No xp from PVP either and the problem is sorted, pvp equipment is reward enough.

This is a very borad way to label people, and try to save face at the same time by avoiding any criticism.

Lets first give credit where credit is due.

Awesome game. Great personal story. Great combat. Great AI mechanics. Lots of spells to learn and master a class keeps things interesting as well. Beautitful worlds in a Sci-fi setting. Nice crafting system.

However, with all the nice things, some are going to not like certain aspects, or notice some actual missing aspects.

So lets ignore the subjective opinions, and try to make things more standard.

What are the standards for mmos? Did swtor achieve above and beyong those standards. Imo, yes.

However, the standard they fell short on, is world pvp. This would not be a huge issue, but by having pvp servers and a world dedicated to world pvp, you have a spot light on something that is missing.

However, end game does exist, and there are raids. The raids are fun, but not easy and do require proper gear to do them at a reasonable difficulty.

Also imo, the combat is fun, and therefore the war zones, instanced pvp, are fun. I also do consider that end game as well, that is very well done.

So, having said that, lets not ignore the issue of world pvp being a missing aspect of the game atm. But also lets not forget its a new game.

Nonetheless, its a business and they need to deliver on what they say they have. So then it becomes an issue of what the customer expects based on what BW promises to deliver as well, and not just beating the other mmo standards.

Gawd I am happy I am not you.

EQ and the others you mention sounds TERRIBLY boring.

Good for me that I have SWTOR that's a 11 of 10 game to comfort me with.

Perfect leveling speed, perfect story length, fantastic graphics, awesome quests, wonderful instances and great end game.

BEST. GAME. EVER.

It takes about 3 to 4 years to build a AAA MMO. At least 2 years of that time are spent on the content that fills the so-called "jouney" to level-cap (starter cities, class quests, story arcs, etc.).

But if the levelling speed in the game allows players to blow through ALL that content in a month, there is absolutely no way on earth that the developers can churn out enough content to keep players engaged after that first month. So inevitably, the endgame "content" has to radically slow down levelling speed AND rely on mostly repetitive content (i.e. dailies, raids, etc.).

So the players simply end up "paying the piper" at level-cap. A great many will not enjoy the huge and sudden shift in both levelling speed and content, so they simply leave the game at the first opportunity. Once you've become used to flying from one city to another, even an express train will feel unbearably slow.

Rolling a new alt and taking it to level-cap is never as satisfying as the first run through the game. Even if there are so many quests that you only have to repeat about 50% of them, you'll still be repeating the other 50%, and you'll already know all the zones and the game world pretty thoroughly.

Unless some developer can come up with some truly "innovative" endgame play, the only alternative is to slow down the levelling speed on the way to level-cap. Otherwise, MMO's will become games you play for a month or two.