to OP if you want to get any sort of negative point across about this game you really should put it in video form if you can.. i was going to put together series of issues in video format I had that got debated to death on these forums back and forth but this guy did this review and pretty much sums everything up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPxP9Xsc94

i'd love to see a counter review to his review but I really don't know what the counter review could entail...

TOR will never go F2P, stop dreaming.

1. This is EA - EA still charges subs for DaoC and WAR and UO.

2. 500k subs is all they say they need to turn a profit and remain profitable. Despire what MMORPG.com says, TOR will maintain at least 500k subs.

I mean, come on, how many servers does UO have running? I think WAR is down to like 2 in US and 2 in Europe.

EA is PRO at keeping a MMO with barely enough cash flow coming into to keep the lights on and squeek out content updates periodically.

They've also got the capital to run a game like TOR indefinetely at a LOSS due to all of their other ventures, simply to keep the Star Wars name/license.

One more CoD clone and bam - enough money to keep TOR running for a decade.

EA is a massive company with a massive portfolio, all the proof you need to understand my statements = true is the fact that UO and DaoC and WAR all still have subscription fees.

It's not going F2P in the next few years.  So save that pipe dream for another day.

It's certainly not worthy of a subscription in todays market.  If it was released four years ago it would be fine.  I think they can get it subscription worthy in 6 to 8 months if they actually address the key flaws.

I'll return at some point, but not simply because they add end game instances or ranked PVP.  They need to fix combat responsiveness, add a flashpoint finder and implement multiplayer space combat that isn't on rails.

Originally posted by BadSpock

TOR will never go F2P, stop dreaming.

1. This is EA - EA still charges subs for DaoC and WAR and UO.

2. 500k subs is all they say they need to turn a profit and remain profitable. Despire what MMORPG.com says, TOR will maintain at least 500k subs.

 

I mean, come on, how many servers does UO have running? I think WAR is down to like 2 in US and 2 in Europe.

EA is PRO at keeping a MMO with barely enough cash flow coming into to keep the lights on and squeek out content updates periodically.

They've also got the capital to run a game like TOR indefinetely at a LOSS due to all of their other ventures, simply to keep the Star Wars name/license.

One more CoD clone and bam - enough money to keep TOR running for a decade.

EA is a massive company with a massive portfolio, all the proof you need to understand my statements = true is the fact that UO and DaoC and WAR all still have subscription fees.

 

 

very true EA would not let this game go F2P it would shutdown before it went F2P

Originally posted by BadSpock

EA is a massive company with a massive portfolio, all the proof you need to understand my statements = true is the fact that UO and DaoC and WAR all still have subscription fees. 

Yeah...but as other companies have stated when they debated as to whether to make the transition to f2p or not it is a matter of whether it would be cost effective. That's why Turbine switched DDO and LotR but didn't even blink about doing it with AC.

Do they really refuse to consider it or do they simply think it isn't worth the cost for the transition?

In this game, could be a different story. For all anyone knows they could have built in features already so if and when they were to make or consider the switch it wouldn't be as difficult, time consuming, or costly. See a lot of potential cash shop items in this game.

I mean even if they were to we're talking pretty far down the road. Certainly not any time soon.

Originally posted by fenistil

Nah , that does not matter.

 

If game is bad or just don't suit my tastes diffrent business model will not change it.

I tend to agree.

However, I do not find TOR to be a 'bad' game, but rather just a cheaply/poorly designed game.

I did not renew my subscription, because I do not think what they are offering is worth paying a sub fee -- out of principal.    My one cancellation will not break their bank, but it is another chit in the 'lost customer' jar.  

If it were to become F2P, then I might return, because my expectation would be lower than it is for a game they want me to pay for each month.

I would return to the P2P model, if they basically took ownership of their mistakes, and then worked hard to improve the mmo aspects of the game --- maybe if they 'Tarred and Feathered DE, JO, RV, etc and made them run down Congress Ave at lunch time', I would consider purchasing a 6 month sub.  ;-P

Oh...Imagine Swtor being F2P...just think for a moment what EA could do with a cash shop!

SWTOR will never go F2P because LucasArts would pull the licence and give it to some other developer. They want their pound of flesh.

The only "F2P" that SWTOR is ever likely to see is if they allow you 30 days of "free" play for every $15 you spend in the cash shop ;)

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by BadSpock

TOR will never go F2P, stop dreaming.

1. This is EA - EA still charges subs for DaoC and WAR and UO.

2. 500k subs is all they say they need to turn a profit and remain profitable. Despire what MMORPG.com says, TOR will maintain at least 500k subs.

 

I mean, come on, how many servers does UO have running? I think WAR is down to like 2 in US and 2 in Europe.

EA is PRO at keeping a MMO with barely enough cash flow coming into to keep the lights on and squeek out content updates periodically.

They've also got the capital to run a game like TOR indefinetely at a LOSS due to all of their other ventures, simply to keep the Star Wars name/license.

One more CoD clone and bam - enough money to keep TOR running for a decade.

EA is a massive company with a massive portfolio, all the proof you need to understand my statements = true is the fact that UO and DaoC and WAR all still have subscription fees.

 

 

very true EA would not let this game go F2P it would shutdown before it went F2P

I don't agree with you guys for a couple of reasons, although you do make good points Spock. 

Both UO and WAR have f2p options. They are limited, yes, but that EA has bothered shows it's at least something they are open to, even if they are hesitant in doing so. Further, the games you mentioned, especially DAoC, aren't really mainstream. WAR could have been, but they didn't nurture it enough to get past the stigma it has developed. Gameplay in the style of Ultima and DAoC will never be mainstream.

SWTOR, however, is more casual and WoW-ish, which ~is~ the mainstream at the moment. Going F2P with a gameplay style that has such wide appeal could actually prove to be more lucrative than being hard-headed about a subscription, especially if they avoid waiting until the last minute and it's 'moment in the spotlight' begins to dwindle. Couple that with the IP, and you have a lot of people that would be far more interested. My partner for one, scoffs at the idea of a monthly fee for a game even though he's just one wookie costume away from a Star Wars fanboy. It's not that he can't afford it (he's a landlord, he makes plenty) he's just an older generation of fanatic and feels online gaming is a waste of money. It's an argument we've had on many occasions.

In any case, people are still looking at F2P as the last chance for a failing game, but it's been proven time and time again that it can be as lucrative if not far more than a sub fee. When you include the fact that many games are either going F2P or already are and turning a profit (AoC, Aion, DCU, EQ2, everything Turbine), or launching as F2P or some interation of it (including B2P, like GW2, Marvel Universe, Neverwinter, etc) you're bound to see more and more companies considering this as a valid payment model.

I'm not saying this means EA will definitely go F2P, but I don't think it's a "never" situation.

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

I don't agree with you guys for a couple of reasons, although you do make good points Spock. 

Both UO and WAR have f2p options. They are limited, yes, but that EA has bothered shows it's at least something they are open to, even if they are hesitant in doing so. Further, the games you mentioned, especially DAoC, aren't really mainstream. WAR could have been, but they didn't nurture it enough to get past the stigma it has developed. Gameplay in the style of Ultima and DAoC will never be mainstream.

SWTOR, however, is more casual and WoW-ish, which ~is~ the mainstream at the moment. Going F2P with a gameplay style that has such wide appeal could actually prove to be more lucrative than being hard-headed about a subscription, especially if they avoid waiting until the last minute and it's 'moment in the spotlight' begins to dwindle. Couple that with the IP, and you have a lot of people that would be far more interested. My partner for one, scoffs at the idea of a monthly fee for a game even though he's just one wookie costume away from a Star Wars fanboy. It's not that he can't afford it (he's a landlord, he makes plenty) he's just an older generation of fanatic and feels online gaming is a waste of money. It's an argument we've had on many occasions.

In any case, people are still looking at F2P as the last chance for a failing game, but it's been proven time and time again that it can be as lucrative if not far more than a sub fee. When you include the fact that many games are either going F2P or already are and turning a profit (AoC, Aion, DCU, EQ2, everything Turbine), or launching as F2P or some interation of it (including B2P, like GW2, Marvel Universe, Neverwinter, etc) you're bound to see more and more companies considering this as a valid payment model.

I'm not saying this means EA will definitely go F2P, but I don't think it's a "never" situation.

it does seem F2P is THE thing to do nowadays anyway so who knows... doesn't matter much though  by this time next year i'd be shocked if this game is holding even as many as rift has right now...

---

Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Pretty basic but I agree.
I'm telling you know though this game isn't going f2p anytime soon.  Maybe a couple years from now. Certainly will happen eventually but wouldn't bank on it in the next couple years.

---

EA over all actually has taken quite fondly to the P4F model.

I don't expect it soon.

But it'll happen sooner or later.

Originally posted by sanosukex

to OP if you want to get any sort of negative point across about this game you really should put it in video form if you can.. i was going to put together series of issues in video format I had that got debated to death on these forums back and forth but this guy did this review and pretty much sums everything up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPxP9Xsc94

i'd love to see a counter review to his review but I really don't know what the counter review could entail...

 

That guy has some fair points and indeed is quite there with what he says, but I dont find many of the stuff he bases that review on that important, he spends most of his time talking about stuff like the clones, something that I personally only noticed few times in a way that it bothered, or the weather and day/night, it's something I dont really pay any attention at all unless rubbed to my face.

I like the game very much because I like to play it, to do things, advance in my stories, complete flashpoints, shoot stuff etc, something the guy does not even talk about much. He has some good points but IMO there's too much irrelevant stuff and fluff that pushes the result down a bit. He's propably spot on for anyone who likes to sit down for moments here and there and really look around at the ambience etc. Some of the stuff already fixed in the game that he complained about also, in any case, no it's not a perfect game, even nearly, but pretty good for what it's made for.

I dont hate this game but I think its not worth a sub ( actually not many mmos are ) . Buy to play would be the best thing for this with pay to play major patches and expansion packs .

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by sanosukex

to OP if you want to get any sort of negative point across about this game you really should put it in video form if you can.. i was going to put together series of issues in video format I had that got debated to death on these forums back and forth but this guy did this review and pretty much sums everything up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPxP9Xsc94

i'd love to see a counter review to his review but I really don't know what the counter review could entail...

 

 

That guy has some fair points and indeed is quite there with what he says, but I dont find many of the stuff he bases that review on that important, he spends most of his time talking about stuff like the clones, something that I personally only noticed few times in a way that it bothered, or the weather and day/night, it's something I dont really pay any attention at all unless rubbed to my face.

 

I like the game very much because I like to play it, to do things, advance in my stories, complete flashpoints, shoot stuff etc, something the guy does not even talk about much. He has some good points but IMO there's too much irrelevant stuff and fluff that pushes the result down a bit. He's propably spot on for anyone who likes to sit down for moments here and there and really look around at the ambience etc. Some of the stuff already fixed in the game that he complained about also, in any case, no it's not a perfect game, even nearly, but pretty good for what it's made for.

that's the thing while its fluff to you it could be game breaking ot others.. obviously depends on person.. but I prefer seeing video of these points rather than just listen to people spout the same stuff over and over and not even really knowing if they actually play the game.

Originally posted by Logos1326

I will quit when it goes f2p because that means p2w shop... so it's a wash.

 

^^amen

Remember Earth and Beyond? EA game, trashed/canceled....

To the OP I said the same thing, it should be B2P really, and it does not feel like a Massively multi-player game when zones don't hold more then 250 players. Most only show maybe 120 on a good night, fleet 200+, bad  night, 20-60 players in a zone. All this and  the game makes EQ2 instancing look like an open world. Diablo 3 will be more multi plyer than this game. In fact it's almost on par with GW1, which is B2P.

Originally posted by BadSpock

They've also got the capital to run a game like TOR indefinetely at a LOSS due to all of their other ventures, simply to keep the Star Wars name/license.

One more CoD clone and bam - enough money to keep TOR running for a decade.

EA is a massive company with a massive portfolio, all the proof you need to understand my statements = true is the fact that UO and DaoC and WAR all still have subscription fees.

I think you overestimate how stable and cash rich EA actually are... a far as I understand the truth is that they are basically relying on SWTOR to save them. 

it won't go f2p because EA doesn't roll that way

Look at WAR, it's a perfect example of how they think they can make a great MMO using a great IP, but fail miserably and instead of trying to solve their own mistakes, just abandon the project, merge servers and let the game dissipate into nothingness

they started with over 70 servers, 800 000 active subscriptions, 1.2M boxes sold, they lost half within a few months and were down to 300 000 in 3 months. 

a year later they merged tons of servers because of the exactly same problem as SWTOR:

1 - barely rewarding PVP

2 - PVP was too unbalanced

3 - too many bugs on release 

4 - the gameplay was too simple compared to DAOC

5 - way too many CC abilities which kind of ruined the game (swtor only has knockback and some other ones, but still annoying)

I'm sure there are tons more, but the parallels are there

yet even today, it works on a subscription model with its remaining 6 empty servers

they're just being stubborn and don't care enough.

unfortunately, it's another great IP ruined by EA....RIP Star Wars...RIP BioWare

Originally posted by TJixlee

Originally posted by Logos1326

I will quit when it goes f2p because that means p2w shop... so it's a wash.

 

^^amen

Well isnt the 'Founders Title' a p2w element -- you have to pay for one additional month extra, just to get it, rather than just getting it with the box purchase and playing the free month.

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

I dont hate this game but I think its not worth a sub ( actually not many mmos are ) . Buy to play would be the best thing for this with pay to play major patches and expansion packs .

I agree with this.b2p seems to be the most acceptable sulution for this game to be saved and charge with expansions just like gw2.

If it goes free to play it will be a dissaster as well.