I really wish this game wouldn't use the 4th edition ruleset and instead used either 3.5 or even better, Pathfinder.

The thing is that 4th ed really is both rather boring and have done extremely bad compared to earlier versions.

Basically in 4th ed everything is simpler and made to fit Wow players.

You select a few skills when you make your character and no later so the whole select skills things is gone. What you do is instead that you pick a few powers (feats or spells) every level based on your single class, so a character will be a lot more similar to another in 4th compared with 3 and 3.5. The game have 30 levels (not sure if NWN will though) and you start as a loser and move up to an actual demigod (yeah, that is in the rules).

Pathfinder on the other hand is building onn 3.5 but with a very high level of character cusomization and even a good balance. In pathdfinder can a simple druid have loads of specialisation classes with slightly or rather different abilities and there are plenty of ways to make your character unique.

A few years back and since launch was D&D the worlds largest P&P RPG, particularly in the US. Today is Pathfinder more popular and is easier to find, and even releases more books (and they also have generally higher quality).

They NGEd my P&P game.. :(

Well, there is Pathfinder Online

Originally posted by DeaconX

Well, there is Pathfinder Online

Yeah, but I hear warning bells around that one.

It is a sandbox without levels, which funny enough is the opposite of what everyone else is doing. Warahammer Fantasy RPG is levelless but they added levels to it instead to make one example.

That part might work fine and I guess they are more interested in the world that the rather good mechanics, but my real warning clocks is about the budget.

They have a very low budget so they decided to make it into a sandbox because that is cheaper (funny enough have both Rockstar and Bethesda said the opposite) and they will release it partly with allowing something like 500 new players every month while still adding new stuff.

They might of course get it right but it sounds like paid beta and a lot like Mortal online so I ain´t getting my hopes up on this one until they have proven otherwise.

No levels?  Hmm I could've sworn I recently read that they were hoping to see the first top level character around 2 and a half years after the game's launch... but if there were no levels, The Secret World is taking that approach and I'm really interested in how they will do it :)

What I'm actually worried about for PO is funding, or lack there of.

Neverinter, the only thing I can honestly say I'm excited about it the mission creation tool.  I look forward to writing some adventures for the community.

Originally posted by DeaconX

No levels?  Hmm I could've sworn I recently read that they were hoping to see the first top level character around 2 and a half years after the game's launch... but if there were no levels, The Secret World is taking that approach and I'm really interested in how they will do it :)

What I'm actually worried about for PO is funding, or lack there of.

Neverinter, the only thing I can honestly say I'm excited about it the mission creation tool.  I look forward to writing some adventures for the community.

I have the newsletter... But yeah, they can pull it off even though I wish one of the regulat EQ/Wow games tried it instead, Pathfinders mechanics are interesting enough as it is.

Yeah, me too. Making evil dungeons will be fun, or at least it was in Biowares NWN. Unless Perfect world have takenaway the feature, I havn't heard anything about it lately. If they havn't I will make something with interesting traps :).

dammit you are making me realize I don't even know what the 4th ed. ruleset is.. I haven't played tabletop since 97 and last played 3.5 with NWN2 :( I am gonna have to do some digging and see what is changed.

I'm sorry but I never understand the whole characters have less customization argument when comparing 3.5/Pathfinder to 4th edition. 

I DMed a lot of 3.5, playing actively pathfinder, and DMed a lot of 4th edition. The rulesets have different qualities and strengths/weaknesses, but to say customization is lacking in 4th I find to be a fallacy.

4th edition lets you choose feats, powers, class features, paragon paths(basically prestigate paths), epic destinies (even more advanced class), racial powers, racial feats, racial paragons, multi-class, hybrid class, and really customize your equipment to tailor your character. So I'm really not seeing where this whole lacks customization is coming from.

Originally posted by Loke666

I really wish this game wouldn't use the 4th edition ruleset and instead used either 3.5 or even better, Pathfinder.

The thing is that 4th ed really is both rather boring and have done extremely bad compared to earlier versions.

Basically in 4th ed everything is simpler and made to fit Wow players.

You select a few skills when you make your character and no later so the whole select skills things is gone. What you do is instead that you pick a few powers (feats or spells) every level based on your single class, so a character will be a lot more similar to another in 4th compared with 3 and 3.5. The game have 30 levels (not sure if NWN will though) and you start as a loser and move up to an actual demigod (yeah, that is in the rules).

Pathfinder on the other hand is building onn 3.5 but with a very high level of character cusomization and even a good balance. In pathdfinder can a simple druid have loads of specialisation classes with slightly or rather different abilities and there are plenty of ways to make your character unique.

A few years back and since launch was D&D the worlds largest P&P RPG, particularly in the US. Today is Pathfinder more popular and is easier to find, and even releases more books (and they also have generally higher quality).

They NGEd my P&P game.. :(

*comfort* ^^

I respect your view, and I guess if I had played 3.5 a long time, I would feel like you, maybe.

But I thought the 4e was a great improvement over the mess and chaos of the older D&D. Sure, it needs to be evolved. I hope the newly developer 5e isn't too far a rollback. I really loved the tactical, action-ish combat of 4E. But then, I did like several aspects of the NGE even, teh. ;)

i don't bother as long i can build a Monk archer

Well 5th ed is coming out to fix issues with 4th ed. They know a lot of people went to Pathfinder or still play older DnD ed over 4th ed.

I went over to Pathfinder myself instead of playing 4th ed.

After settling on 2nd Edition for a while and eventually discovering 3.5, I think AD&D just doesn't get any better than 3.5. I'm not a big fan of Pathfinder, I played a couple of times but it just felt like dumbed down 3.5 and more useful for quick tournament play than a serious long running campaign. To be honest I can't see the point of Pathfinder when 3.5 is perfectly good enough.

The great thing about D&D as ever is that you pick and choose what you like and dislike in the rules, no ruleset is set in stone or to be slavishly followed. We adapted and added to first edition in many ways long before 4th and 5th edition and Pathfinder came along. Dragon magazine was brilliant as well in adding new classes and rules expansions, a lot of which ended up in other rules books (Unearthed Arcana for one). Having said all that 3.5 seemed to capture the best of everything that had gone before. It'll do for me.

I don't care what system it uses. I play an MMORPG to play an MMORPG, not D&D in digital form. Just as I don't play D&D to play an MMORPG which is why 4e was such a lousy pen and paper system.