I just read the news that Wizards of the Coast was beginning to develop D&D 5 now, and this time they wanted to make extensive play testing and user feedback. Read news here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/arts/video-games/dungeons-dragons-remake-uses-players-input.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

My first reaction was WHAT THE FUCK? I had just bought several D&D 4e books over the past year, and now that is already yesterdays news? I mean, hell yes 4e was in several ways odd. But then, D&D was always a tad too focussed on combat IMVPO, compared to other Pen and Paper games. Personally I disliked 4e the most for the fact you NEEDED tabletop maps and figues again. That made things just overly complicated in my book. I hope a 5e will do away with that and you can again play just with dice, paper and imagination.

One issue I had with the 3.5 was, it had WAY too many complicated rules, and all too often players were seeking gaps and rules to outsmart the DM instead of playing within the setting. There was a ton of material, like a plethora of spells that were NEVER used. The 4e was IMO a good step of streamlining the rules, but it went so far it was just a boring MMO-type combat, a hackfest. I can't imagine how the 5e could be. Now Wizards has invited everyone to have a say in the new edition:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120109

But can that be good? If you have 10 people you have 20 opinions. How can that lead to anything good? I remain skeptical that "democratic" creativity leads to good results.

Good call. For the first time ever is D&D not the largest P&P game in US, Pathfinder have passed it by due to the pathetically bad 4.0.

But I dunno, I like my Pathfinder and think my Forgotten realms campaign will stay there anyways.

You really should give it a go Elikal, it is based on 3.5 but with balance, rules that actually fits together and a lot more customization for the players without releasing tons of crappy books with bad feats that makes a certain class OP.

The skill revamp is also wonderful.

D&D 3.0 was a hugestep forward from AD&D but it also had weap spots, particularly with balance both for playerclasses and for the GM when he hits them with a encounter. The XP system was a nightamare.

4.0 dumbed down the game to a level that makes even Wow players laugh at it, and they also totallt destroyed Forgotten realms while they only have given out 2 measly sourcebooks for in 3 years.

While P&P do have gone down a bit the last 10 years D&D is hit worst than most other games and it is their own fault. I played D&D since the 80s but they have to make 5.0 something really special to make me return to it now.

Beside the point, after Neverwinter DDO will be forgotten.

Originally posted by Loke666

Good call. For the first time ever is D&D not the largest P&P game in US, Pathfinder have passed it by due to the pathetically bad 4.0.

But I dunno, I like my Pathfinder and think my Forgotten realms campaign will stay there anyways.

You really should give it a go Elikal, it is based on 3.5 but with balance, rules that actually fits together and a lot more customization for the players without releasing tons of crappy books with bad feats that makes a certain class OP.

The skill revamp is also wonderful.

D&D 3.0 was a hugestep forward from AD&D but it also had weap spots, particularly with balance both for playerclasses and for the GM when he hits them with a encounter. The XP system was a nightamare.

4.0 dumbed down the game to a level that makes even Wow players laugh at it, and they also totallt destroyed Forgotten realms while they only have given out 2 measly sourcebooks for in 3 years.

While P&P do have gone down a bit the last 10 years D&D is hit worst than most other games and it is their own fault. I played D&D since the 80s but they have to make 5.0 something really special to make me return to it now.

i really have to agree with you guys on 4e being pathetically bad.  It really made me want to cry.  My reaction was essentially "so wait, you took EVERYTHING out that wasn't for combat, namely everything that was used for actually roleplaying?" *cry*

3e was really my favorite of all of them, there were some truly wacky parts in it.  My game group had to drop a campaign because around level 15 the save-or-die spells made the combat so degenerate that it seemed that every encounter was this Wild West standoff where the guy that rolled highest initiative won.  Blech.

I still think 3rd ed. Shadowrun is still the Cadillac of P&P games if you can get over the fact that the mortality rate of characters is so stunningly high when you're using assault firearms.  This is assuming of course that you don't have access to the one DM I've ever met in the whole world who was capable of running a good Mage: Ascension game.  If you're so lucky as to know someone that can run that game, you'd better treat him/her well :P

normally a person has one opinion, and its considered 2 cents.  "Did she add her 2 cents into it?"  Agreed that 4e was lacking alot.  I'm thinking that with some people liking 4e though, might screw up 5th edition.  If I remember correctly, 2nd edition was similiar to 1st.  If 5e is similiar to 4e, then its not going to be that good of a system.

I heard they are doing away with game-masters, computerizing them.  Great, now you cannot even play D&D 5e, unless you have a computer and internet access.  Here I thought I was playing a Pen and Paper game, but nope.  I also heard they might not be hard cover paper books?  Like everything is going to be on the computer?  I'd expect some paper product.  Some people still buy books.

If I had my dithers, we'd go back to 2nd edition and call it 5th.  :)  ADD in thac0 and we are good.

Originally posted by Loke666

Good call. For the first time ever is D&D not the largest P&P game in US, Pathfinder have passed it by due to the pathetically bad 4.0.

But I dunno, I like my Pathfinder and think my Forgotten realms campaign will stay there anyways.

Same. I see no reaon to start investing what is a large amount of money into a new D&D.

Good luck to them... I will always wish D&D well because it's been a huge part of my life for decades, but I don't see what they will deliver that Paizo isn't doing better right now.

Originally posted by Elikal

 

But can that be good? If you have 10 people you have 20 opinions. How can that lead to anything good? I remain skeptical that "democratic" creativity leads to good results.

my comment above about people having 1 opinion is because 10 people don't have 20 opinions usually.  10 have 10 opinions.

A normal person gets one opinion.  If a person is crazy, they might have more than one.  multiple personalities, each with their own opinion.

So this community they want input from, is this going to be the same community that offered such "helpful" input after the 4E preview books were released?

Good luck with that.

I shudder to think what will happen this time.

welli think that 4ed is quite nice.The closed a lot of holes and gave a lot more options to the players.The only bad thing about it that i find is that it gives that computer game feeling,i didnt find anything other as a problem althought i heard that it got problems on the higher levels but meh :P when i started 4th(just a few months back :P )it gave me the idea that it can make quite better campaings than the 3.5 edition...in 3.5 it was more of a "add the number"s to "play a character"i dont know about you guys but it game me a 2nd edition kind of feeling.As for the "they took the RP tools away"well  its a PnPRPG you cant take those tools away :P its up to you to have them,and with all those at will powers,it really made up for some good rp parts.But what i really think is good about 4th is its magic system with the rituals.I prefer the ritual system way better than the way magic works in dnd before 4th in general.Finally well its about time for a new edition since edition cycles are around 5-6 years so it is to be expected.

as a final note i have found that if you really wana play dnd 3.5 then the best system is conan atlantean edition.I tried it the other day and i was amazed.Especially magic i really loved how it worked and the sence of dager that it emits when you cast spells,i never like that carefree idea of casting what ever spells i liked whitout some thinking or some fear.