My game of choice is sandboxes. But I must say that out of all of them I had the least amount of fun in EVE.

I can't immerse myself in being 'a ship', or being a character portrait.

If we could get a mix of an Eve type sandbox and action-fighter e.g Wing Commander mixed together that'd be badarse. Everyone joins carrier groups and performs different roles in the ship.

Originally posted by Clannetworks

If we could get a mix of an Eve type sandbox and action-fighter e.g Wing Commander mixed together that'd be badarse. Everyone joins carrier groups and performs different roles in the ship.

Hell yeah. The only real complaint I had about EVE gameplay, was the combat. While tactical, and requiring thinking, and quick reactions, it also was kinda boring, and did not really immerse me in the game. Combine what EVE is with a twitch sim, and I would love it.

Originally posted by Naral

Originally posted by Clannetworks

If we could get a mix of an Eve type sandbox and action-fighter e.g Wing Commander mixed together that'd be badarse. Everyone joins carrier groups and performs different roles in the ship.

Hell yeah. The only real complaint I had about EVE gameplay, was the combat. While tactical, and requiring thinking, and quick reactions, it also was kinda boring, and did not really immerse me in the game. Combine what EVE is with a twitch sim, and I would love it.

http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/help.html

Since, apparently, my previous post was entirely ignored.

EvE's combat is boring? Are you bored while doing PvE or PvP? I played EvE consistently from 06-10 and my hands would sweat and shake during and after PvP. Either you aren't risking anything or you are flying a boring ship. You flying a domi clearing out room after room again?

Or are you flying a jaguar with three to six friends, hunting? Are you thinking.."if i can do one more mission tonight, I can afford an officer's web?" or are you thinking..."if it's anything bigger than a cruiser...let me engage first and see what he does...don't  jump in yet?"

Are you on TS/Vent asking what the purpose of simple or complex reactions can do with your next invention project..WHILE you are in combat? Or are you asking for more info from the scout and thinking..."i'm gonna kill some shit tonight?"

If EvE's combat is boring..it's bc you aren't doing it right. Are the graphics great...um well...I like them...but I tended to fly smaller and smaller stuff as I grew in experience. Stop flying drakes and battleships and start flying interceptors...or T1 frigates and see if that helps with your boredom.

If you are doing something else WHILE engaged with another human player...either he's an idiot and doesn't understand that EvE is about PvP and will be in a pod soon..or you're an idiot and should be in your pod soon.

Dual boxing and all that nonsense is for people that aren't engaged in PvP. I had two accts and the most my other acct did was open a cyno or sit at a POS while I was engaged in combat.

Then again, maybe i'm just old.

Originally posted by revy66

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

This is also why this will never be popular though.

Joe Averageguy doesn't come for the drama and stays for the nerdrage.

Joe Averageguy especially doesn't like getting offended in his free time either. When I think about it, you need to have a very specific personality to actually enjoy this, like it takes a very specific personality to enjoy 4chan.

Define popular. EVE is one of the most popular p2p MMOs on the market right now, so I'd say quite a few people have this "very specific personality" to be able to enjoy this game.

Popular defines itself by the most popular game in a given genre. If you are of course refering to Sandbox MMOs EVE is doing quite nicely.

Taking the whole MMO segment, not so much.

Then again there isn't any sandbox set in the same theme (space) available right now, so if you want a sandbox and space, you are going to play EVE.

I'd actually say, its the only space sim MMO out there, sandbox or themepark, so it lends itself to being popular. Well maybe Darkspace, but i just couldn't take the horrible UI and non-existant anything in that game. At least EVE is nice to look at.

Inb4 STO and Black Prophecy, both are arcade shooters not sims.

This is btw not diminishing of anything EVE achieved, its just a general observation of the market. "Hard" sandboxes tend to have small populations. EVE certainly is the best of the lot though.

Its as close as you can get to an "oldschool" AAA sandbox right now.

Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

Perhaps I'm just waiting for the day these forum warriors have to eat their own words? Although I do have to admit that at the moment thats not looking very likely. I do play skyrim, when I want something thats easy, uncompetitive and not very challenging (or when I lose at EVE and need to win at something else). I like EVE because it gives players a genuine opportunity to pwn or get pwned by other players, it doesn't coddle you. That's the allure but its a double edged sword as it also keeps a lot of people away but I'm okay with that because of the unique environment it creates for a many that do stay.

It was not too long ago that my alliance was riding high on smug arrogance. Our enemies in their last throes of life called in the cavalry in the form of a very competent pvp alliance. They came and literally slapped the smug smile off our faces and kicked our sh*t in, it was a humbling experience to say the least. It won't stop me or people in my alliance from continuing the fight. Its not the first time we've faced these people and it probably won't be the last. What we can't beat with brute force we can win with dogged perseverance. So I'll keep charging up hamburger hill, high risk and low probability of success might not sound like fun, but if we do succeed it will be epic. That's what keeps the 'hardcore' veterans playing, the chance of being in that epic win, its worth fighting for because its not easy to obtain. The sense of victory is just as real as the feeling of defeat.

@ Phaserlight

I played Vendetta a couple of years back. I actually enjoyed it's space combat better than Eve. But, it felt like other things were missing. I only played for a few weeks, so I'm positive there was a lot I did not see.

1) The market didn't seem nearly as involved as Eve. How is it now?

2) How's the population? I rarely ran into anyone back then.

3) How're the missions? A couple of years ago it seemed very repetitive. But, so are Eve's missions.

4) Selection of ships seemed very small. Are there more choices now days?

5) I'm not sure, but I  thought they even updated the graphics while I've been gone. How are they now?

6) How's the community? I never ran into anyone rude, so complaints there. Is it larger now?

That's all I can think of for now.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by revy66

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

This is also why this will never be popular though.

Joe Averageguy doesn't come for the drama and stays for the nerdrage.

Joe Averageguy especially doesn't like getting offended in his free time either. When I think about it, you need to have a very specific personality to actually enjoy this, like it takes a very specific personality to enjoy 4chan.

Define popular. EVE is one of the most popular p2p MMOs on the market right now, so I'd say quite a few people have this "very specific personality" to be able to enjoy this game.

Popular defines itself by the most popular game in a given genre. If you are of course refering to Sandbox MMOs EVE is doing quite nicely.

Taking the whole MMO segment, not so much.

Then again there isn't any sandbox set in the same theme (space) available right now, so if you want a sandbox and space, you are going to play EVE.

I'd actually say, its the only space sim MMO out there, sandbox or themepark, so it lends itself to being popular. Well maybe Darkspace, but i just couldn't take the horrible UI and non-existant anything in that game. At least EVE is nice to look at.

Inb4 STO and Black Prophecy, both are arcade shooters not sims.

 

This is btw not diminishing of anything EVE achieved, its just a general observation of the market. "Hard" sandboxes tend to have small populations. EVE certainly is the best of the lot though.

Its as close as you can get to an "oldschool" AAA sandbox right now.

StarQuest online is actually the best Space simulator out. The graphics are trash, but it blows away any other game besides maybe Shores of Hazeron (Another example of your wrongness). This game actually does more than Eve, or SQO have even attempted by allowing you to be a person not a ship. You can walk around on planets, space stations, and  you have actual player crews running around with medical bays, brigs, cargo bays, Shuttlports, teleporters, and all kinds of customizable systems to repair. So Eve really isn't the only one at all. in fact I can name more if you'd like.

Originally posted by Bow-wow-wow

I am a long time MMO player and not too long ago I tried the 14 day trial of EvE and tried really hard to get into it but just couldn't. The whole space idea and the player run economy look so much fun and I think I would have a blast getting into but the actual gameplay just isn't fun. The mining is sitting in one spot for 5 minuites while you mine, that isn't exciting at all. Even the combat is just selecting a red dot, selecting attack and waiting untill they die. Maybe it is just that I am not patient enough for EvE but I keep trying to get into and it is so hard, mainly because the gameplay isn't fun.

 

Any EvE players have advice of when/if/how this gets less boring or do you just need extreme patience to enjoy this game?

You know, I love EVE's Scope, Sandbox, Butterfly Effect, Intreague, Politics, Good times Bad times Interaction, etc. And i have done so since Beta, I was part of the few that Beta Tested that game in its very humble beginings. And I played it for a while.

But it could never keep me for long, I always end up loging in changing a Skill and loging out to play something else, after a couple of months doing this I just cancell My SUB all together, "there is no purpose paying for a game that I do not play", I say to myself.

This hapened a couple of times, and the last time I gave up for good.

Reflecting upon all this, the two elements that I find NOT fun with eve are:

1st - The Skill system, it drives me nuts, it is boring.

2nd - The Combat System. It is all Strategic and not Tactical at all. Facing doe snot count, maneuvers do not count. It is all about Size of Ship, guns and Fittings BEFORE the battle takes place, once the battle starts it might as well be Gratuitous Space Battles game, just sit back and watch the Dice results play out.

Now, many here are proposing Prophesy and the like as alternatives but EVE does not have to be an FSP Space combat in order to be fun.

It can just be more tactical, Like STO mechanics of Combat or even POTBS (Ships at sea), where there is some tactics involved in the actual Fraking battle and the involevement clever thinking and opportunity to make a maneuver at the right time that turns the tables would be possible.

Where Formations, maneuvers Facing do count for the result and it is not all about how you fit yours ships...but actually how skillfull of a player in the midst of battle you can be alone or with your mates, how well you coordinate and communicate in the battle in synergy.

If ever EVE takes that route with these two elements, I would be back to it and I know many others too.

For now, I agree, it is not Fun.

EVE is challenging.  It is engrossing.  It is even rewarding at times.

I'm not even sure it is supposed to be 'fun'.

Hey, you can't please all of the people all of the time.  EVE does what it does very well.  But, like the OP I'm not the guy it is targeting and I couldn't get into it.

Originally posted by Phaserlight

Originally posted by Naral

Originally posted by Clannetworks

If we could get a mix of an Eve type sandbox and action-fighter e.g Wing Commander mixed together that'd be badarse. Everyone joins carrier groups and performs different roles in the ship.

Hell yeah. The only real complaint I had about EVE gameplay, was the combat. While tactical, and requiring thinking, and quick reactions, it also was kinda boring, and did not really immerse me in the game. Combine what EVE is with a twitch sim, and I would love it.

http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/help.html

Since, apparently, my previous post was entirely ignored.

I wasn't really ignoring you, but you lost me with the term "twitch sim", I'm too old and slow for games like that these days.

Tactical? Like real time 3d space combat between player crewed starships?

UAS Paris Destroyed... SQO PVP Footage

There are several other examples of gameplay from boarding actions, to what happens when you forget to save your clone on another world after defecting from the Klinshay Empire.

Originally posted by s1fu71

@ Phaserlight

I played Vendetta a couple of years back. I actually enjoyed it's space combat better than Eve. But, it felt like other things were missing. I only played for a few weeks, so I'm positive there was a lot I did not see.

1) The market didn't seem nearly as involved as Eve. How is it now?

2) How's the population? I rarely ran into anyone back then.

3) How're the missions? A couple of years ago it seemed very repetitive. But, so are Eve's missions.

4) Selection of ships seemed very small. Are there more choices now days?

5) I'm not sure, but I  thought they even updated the graphics while I've been gone. How are they now?

6) How's the community? I never ran into anyone rude, so complaints there. Is it larger now?

That's all I can think of for now.

 Well, a lot's changed in a couple years.  I've been continuously subscribed, so I don't always see it, but here are my impressions:

1) Market

The market has always been dynamic, in that if you sell a commodity to a specific location, demand for that commodity will be affected.  You never get a bird's eye view, although some players have taken it upon themselves to develop tracking tools to make things easier.

With an objective to earn credits, it's as simple as buy low, sell high.  Probably the most significant change in the last few years is player Manufacturing.  Multiplayer capital ships are in play, but building one is a significant endeavor requiring coordinated Manufacturing efforts.  Many components used in cap ships are economically scarce, so VO has developed a kind of "terraced economy", with trade goods sold from the stations on one level, and components procured through missions, bot drops, or other means bartered between players, occupying an upper layer.

You might purchase a data link connector from a station for a hundred credits, a specially crafted blaster from another player for a hundred thousand credits, or pirate a Behemoth carrying a Hyper-Plasma Reactor worth millions.  Player to player "trade" involves meeting at a specified location, transferring the credits, then dropping the goods to be picked up by the buyer, which can lead to some interesting interactions, and tense moments.

2) Population

There aren't hard numbers available, but I've heard that roughly 100 unique players per day use chat, and 360 per week.

3) Missions

A lot of missions have been implemented over the past couple years, many of them designed/written/tested by Yours Truly.  I am currently working on a project that, once completed, will involve 36 interrelated missions following 6 unique arcs based on player nationality and choices.

You can find a crude map of missions I have successfully materialized thus far here.  The "tree" I am currently building on to is on the fourth page of that thread, titled "Hazardous Site Investigation".  Note that I am not a dev, or affiliated with Guild Software in any way, just someone who has always enjoyed the process of creative generation.

4) Ships

There are between ten and twenty ship models in game, however most ships have multiple variants, some of which are sufficiently differentiated to feel like an entirely new ship.  Ships have a high degree of customizability, so honestly the number of ships in game feels about right.  There are probably millions of possible combinations.

5) Graphics

Textures have been updated, some within the last couple months.  Backgrounds also received an update, I believe.  This is one of those things that's hard to notice, unless you've been away for a while.

6) Community

The community is small, but it's also the reason I've continued playing all these years.  Generally people tend to be very newbie friendly, although if you're not used to open world PvP it may be a bit of an adjustment.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

@ Phaserlight

Thanks for all the info. I also posted on the Vendetta general forum.

Ignore it. It's the same questions.

Hope to see you in game.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by revy66

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

This is also why this will never be popular though.

Joe Averageguy doesn't come for the drama and stays for the nerdrage.

Joe Averageguy especially doesn't like getting offended in his free time either. When I think about it, you need to have a very specific personality to actually enjoy this, like it takes a very specific personality to enjoy 4chan.

Define popular. EVE is one of the most popular p2p MMOs on the market right now, so I'd say quite a few people have this "very specific personality" to be able to enjoy this game.

Popular defines itself by the most popular game in a given genre. If you are of course refering to Sandbox MMOs EVE is doing quite nicely.

Taking the whole MMO segment, not so much.

Then again there isn't any sandbox set in the same theme (space) available right now, so if you want a sandbox and space, you are going to play EVE.

I'd actually say, its the only space sim MMO out there, sandbox or themepark, so it lends itself to being popular. Well maybe Darkspace, but i just couldn't take the horrible UI and non-existant anything in that game. At least EVE is nice to look at.

Inb4 STO and Black Prophecy, both are arcade shooters not sims.

 

This is btw not diminishing of anything EVE achieved, its just a general observation of the market. "Hard" sandboxes tend to have small populations. EVE certainly is the best of the lot though.

Its as close as you can get to an "oldschool" AAA sandbox right now.

StarQuest online is actually the best Space simulator out. The graphics are trash, but it blows away any other game besides maybe Shores of Hazeron (Another example of your wrongness). This game actually does more than Eve, or SQO have even attempted by allowing you to be a person not a ship. You can walk around on planets, space stations, and  you have actual player crews running around with medical bays, brigs, cargo bays, Shuttlports, teleporters, and all kinds of customizable systems to repair. So Eve really isn't the only one at all. in fact I can name more if you'd like.

I fail to see what this has to do with my post at all.

Yes there are other space sims i am well aware of that.

My post was directly adressing the fact that games in which "epic trolling" and "drama" take center stage are and never will be popular amongst Joe Everygamer.

This statement is value-less.

Do you agree or disagree in your post?

Did you even read anything besides "blah blah blah EVE is the best blah blah"? Because if thats what you took from my post you need reading comprehention lessons.

This is what you said... I responed to it in plain english. In any FFA PVP you are going to have all of that crap on forums. 

Then again there isn't any sandbox set in the same theme (space) available right now, so if you want a sandbox and space, you are going to play EVE.

I'd actually say, its the only space sim MMO out there, sandbox or themepark, so it lends itself to being popular. Well maybe Darkspace, but i just couldn't take the horrible UI and non-existant anything in that game. At least EVE is nice to look at.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

This is what you said... I responed to it in plain english. In any FFA PVP you are going to have all of that crap on forums. 

 

Then again there isn't any sandbox set in the same theme (space) available right now, so if you want a sandbox and space, you are going to play EVE.

I'd actually say, its the only space sim MMO out there, sandbox or themepark, so it lends itself to being popular. Well maybe Darkspace, but i just couldn't take the horrible UI and non-existant anything in that game. At least EVE is nice to look at.

I'm truly sorry to tell you this, but the games you mentioned (while fine, im sure) have nothing to add to the conversation. They are neither popular nor comparable to the production value of EVE (which was the context of my post as you can plainly see)

I still see absolutely no correlation to my post at all.

I can see that you're one of those who is always right... Don't know why I ever even quoted a Bronie...