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News & Features Discussion  » General: Should SOPA Be Stopped?

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314 posts found
  Dhaeman

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/03
Posts: 529

1/17/12 1:30:13 PM#81

It seems like this post is a little behind the times but I am glad mmorpg.com is contributing to shining light on this problem.


SOPA and PIPA are short-sighted, terrible acts. Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot of work to convince Congress not to pass any of the related billls (regardless of what new names they come up with). Meltdown, you are pretty much right - any website with any sort of social community could be held liable and be essentially reduced to an IP number. 


 


  User Deleted
1/17/12 1:30:38 PM#82

Welp thanks all you folks that voted republican in November 2010 SOPA and PIPA are the results, along with them trying to kill unions, benefits, the middle class etc etc etc just another step backwards.


And yes SOPA should be killed in all its forms and names.


  troublmaker

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/11
Posts: 340

1/17/12 1:34:08 PM#83

SOPA and PIPA will not stop the undersirable things from being on the Internet. All it will do is sweep them under the rug and make them much more difficult for law enforcement to track down and apprehend those who are actually commiting crimes facilitated by the Internet. The damage will be to the myriad of legitimate sites and services that rely on the openess and freeness of the Internet to thrive.


i'll bite. first: china's great firewall is up to keep the public uninformed and moveable with propaganda. seriously. if you believe that "keeping our culture" thing then, well, you must live in china. second: cp and theft have existed long before, and will exist long after the internet. nothing new there. people do that. it's called human nature. third: america is supposed to be the home of the free remember? the place where people can go to escape suppression. but if this bill passes, and this sort of censorship and corporate domination is allowed to become the status quo for america, what then will happen to the rest of the world? if the land of the free has this sort of draconian law, then it is no longer striving for the ideals it should be.


 


Originally posted by Arforyon

SOPA does not mean fighting piracy, the companies that distributed andinjected softwares like Kazaa, Limewire, bittorrent and many many other sharing websites and software programs, the ones that made profit out of indulging people to share copyright music, videos and so on, are the same companies now the main contributors to SOPA, so that they can make even more profit by sueing people sharing files, mainly by using their own distributed software. 




If SOPA ever goes through, it means that you cannot upload a video to youtube with music or video in it, you cannot post a link in your facebook, sites like google, youtube, twitter, facebook, game streaming, even this one, would have tremendous ammounts of legal issues, some to the point of shutting down.




Even actual piracy being bad, SOPA won't stop it and that is not the intent either, SOPA is not about a moral concern on piracy, SOPA its about companies profiting with sueing people and controlling the internet.





 


Don't know how the forums separates these so responding in order.


1.  In SOPA there is an amendment to stop payment and advertising revenues for these people.  99% of the firms that do this are American.  By shutting these down foreign companies might start up to do this BUT foreign advertising markets have never been nearly as good as America's.  As well very few countries would allow for it anyway... only America.


2.  My little brother is studying Mandarin in China.  He has access to almost any website that I do.  But if he types in freedom suddenly he gets blocked.  Of course they block out ideas.  Freedom is largely a western ideology that is not shared by the remainder of the world.  Everywhere East of Germany  and South of America have practiced different forms of government and different forms of expression.  Other parts of the world when they get freedom their countries split off into smaller countries and constantly make war with each other.


3.  SOPA does not allow for companies to sue people for piracy.  That law is already in effect and companies can sue pirates whenever they want.  What the concern for SOPA is shutting down foreign hosting websites that allow for the piracy to occur.


I will aliken the Internet to gun control.  If you have no gun control anyone can have access to guns meaning that non-responsible gun owners (kids in schools) can shoot each other.  If you have gun control that means only law enforcement, military and responsible people will have guns


It is no surprise that the country that supports gun violence also supports child pornography and piracy.


Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/users/thetroublmaker

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2533

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

1/17/12 1:34:35 PM#84
Originally posted by itgrowls

Welp thanks all you folks that voted republican in November 2010 SOPA and PIPA are the results, along with them trying to kill unions, benefits, the middle class etc etc etc just another step backwards.


And yes SOPA should be killed in all its forms and names.

 Republican/Democrat is a false paradigm set up to keep people controlled and chained inside the proverbial box. The truth is, both sides are controlled by the same people who own the entire system.

R.I.P. Left-Right Paradigm

So let’s summarize a few effects of the left-right political divide:

1) ignites the political theater of the “left vs. right blame game”, creating false targets and enemies and dissipating potentially upsetting energies into harmless directions
2) distracts people with a relentless focus on trivial issues (i.e. gay marriage), to the complete exclusion of the critical issues (central banking, fiat money, etc) that silently ruin people’s lives
3) encourages people to believe that left-right are two extremes and no other ideas exist outside this spectrum, so alternative viewpoints are not represented (= a minimization of choice)
4) motivates people to favor political solutions for all problems, despite the fact that political solutions are by definition coercive in nature and thus only generate further discord and divisiveness
5) enables the divide-and-conquer technique to be utilized time after time (allow people to weaken themselves by fighting each other instead of fighting you with vigor)

read more...

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

1/17/12 1:34:36 PM#85

As with everything, the Devil is in the details of implimentation and if the designers of the Bill aren't carefull about how they setup how the mechanisms work they can and will be used to abuse and bully people who are actualy engaging in completely legitimate activity.


The DMCA has/had the same problem. The goal of protecting intellectual property rights online is a legitimate one. Allowing for mechanisms that can be EASLY used to prevent what are WELL ESTABLISHED and HISTORICALY SUPPORTED  Fair Use exemptions to copyright law....and placing the burden of proof upon the accused rather then the accuser (which runs contrary to principles the US legal system is based on) is just plain wrong-headed.


It's one thing to get a Court to issue an injuction to shutdown a site because some pirate is selling thousands of illegal copies of a work someone else worked hard to create. It's another thing to summarily shutdown a site because some idiot lawyer happaned to notice 1 file on it labled "Titanic" and couldn't be bothered to take the 15 seconds to check that it's actualy some kids history term paper on the historical event rather then a pirate trying to rip-off some crappy hollywood movie his clients own the rights for.


  cherenga

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 19

1/17/12 1:35:23 PM#86

These dudes don´t want to restrict piracy, its just an excuse. They want to restrict our rights and opinions. Bunch of fascists, masters of crowd control.


  User Deleted
1/17/12 1:36:30 PM#87

Sorry for my immature analogy, but I do not think draining the ocean of water is a good idea to stop pirates.

  I can remember, back in the 1980-85, when me and my friends rented movies (and a movie-box) to watch movies. We had a guy (not saying it was me :P ) that copied those films using a simple cable and using 1 moviebox and the family VHS. Somehow they (The movie industry) actually fixed that at some point by making some sort of physical copy prevention system. So why can't they figure out something a little less far reaching than SOPA. I truly believe that there must be other paths they can go by besides actually trying to clog the tubes (CWIDT).

  I do not think that the internet in its present form is the problem and I strongly believe that some Industries (Movies and Music) were not intelligent enough to counter the copy issue and thus they are trying to force an awful law down on all of us.

 

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

1/17/12 1:39:26 PM#88

Originally posted by Zekiah


Originally posted by itgrowls


Welp thanks all you folks that voted republican in November 2010 SOPA and PIPA are the results, along with them trying to kill unions, benefits, the middle class etc etc etc just another step backwards.




And yes SOPA should be killed in all its forms and names.



 Republican/Democrat is a false paradigm set up to keep people controlled and chained inside the proverbial box. The truth is, both sides are controlled by the same people who own the entire system.


R.I.P. Left-Right Paradigm


So let’s summarize a few effects of the left-right political divide:


1) ignites the political theater of the “left vs. right blame game”, creating false targets and enemies and dissipating potentially upsetting energies into harmless directions

2) distracts people with a relentless focus on trivial issues (i.e. gay marriage), to the complete exclusion of the critical issues (central banking, fiat money, etc) that silently ruin people’s lives

3) encourages people to believe that left-right are two extremes and no other ideas exist outside this spectrum, so alternative viewpoints are not represented (= a minimization of choice)

4) motivates people to favor political solutions for all problems, despite the fact that political solutions are by definition coercive in nature and thus only generate further discord and divisiveness

5) enables the divide-and-conquer technique to be utilized time after time (allow people to weaken themselves by fighting each other instead of fighting you with vigor)


read more...



 




Yup,


Looks like some people are quick to forget that it was the Clinton Whitehouse that gave use the oh-so-wonderfull-and-non-abused-because-it-came-from-my-side-of-the-aisle DMCA.


 


 


  Meltdown

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/09/03
Posts: 1190

1/17/12 1:41:34 PM#89
Originally posted by ZX81Spectrum

Sorry for my immature analogy, but I do not think draining the ocean of water is a good idea to stop pirates.

  I can remember, back in the 1980-85, when me and my friends rented movies (and a movie-box) to watch movies. We had a guy (not saying it was me :P ) that copied those films using a simple cable and using 1 moviebox and the family VHS. Somehow they (The movie industry) actually fixed that at some point by making some sort of physical copy prevention system. So why can't they figure out something a little less far reaching than SOPA. I truly believe that there must be other paths they can go by besides actually trying to clog the tubes (CWIDT).

  I do not think that the internet in its present form is the problem and I strongly believe that some Industries (Movies and Music) were not intelligent enough to counter the copy issue and thus they are trying to force an awful law down on all of us.

 

They do have ways to prevent people from copying/distrbuting games at least. It's called DRM and good luck getting the gaming community on board with that. 

 

**edit**

The point here (at least the government's view) is that it hurts the U.S. economy to essentially give away U.S. products by not protecting them and in effect hurting the economy. So instead of shipping CDs to Country-X for U.S. song-writers for $10-$20 a pop the music is being distributed for free and hurting U.S. companies...

 

That is a bit of devil's advocate, not saying I agree with the bills. It's sort of the right direction, but the wrong implementation. As someone else said, the ends do not justify the means.

"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath

  avalon1000

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 714

1/17/12 1:50:00 PM#90

SOPA is dead on arrival....


  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2533

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

1/17/12 1:50:05 PM#91
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Originally posted by Zekiah


Originally posted by itgrowls


Welp thanks all you folks that voted republican in November 2010 SOPA and PIPA are the results, along with them trying to kill unions, benefits, the middle class etc etc etc just another step backwards.




And yes SOPA should be killed in all its forms and names.


 Republican/Democrat is a false paradigm set up to keep people controlled and chained inside the proverbial box. The truth is, both sides are controlled by the same people who own the entire system.


R.I.P. Left-Right Paradigm


So let’s summarize a few effects of the left-right political divide:


1) ignites the political theater of the “left vs. right blame game”, creating false targets and enemies and dissipating potentially upsetting energies into harmless directions

2) distracts people with a relentless focus on trivial issues (i.e. gay marriage), to the complete exclusion of the critical issues (central banking, fiat money, etc) that silently ruin people’s lives

3) encourages people to believe that left-right are two extremes and no other ideas exist outside this spectrum, so alternative viewpoints are not represented (= a minimization of choice)

4) motivates people to favor political solutions for all problems, despite the fact that political solutions are by definition coercive in nature and thus only generate further discord and divisiveness

5) enables the divide-and-conquer technique to be utilized time after time (allow people to weaken themselves by fighting each other instead of fighting you with vigor)


read more...



 



Yup,


Looks like some people are quick to forget that it was the Clinton Whitehouse that gave use the oh-so-wonderfull-and-non-abused-because-it-came-from-my-side-of-the-aisle DMCA.


 


 

It's exactly this kind of information exchange that the bill's sponsors and endorsers intend to silence. It has NOTHING to with piracy, it's about censorship and information control.

Buzzwords, rhetoric and clever bill titles/language blind a lot of people to the truth.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  slickbizzle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/11
Posts: 450

1/17/12 1:53:02 PM#92
Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by slickbizzle


Originally posted by Cambruin


Oh come on. Freedom against oppression? When people/companies invest time into a project, expecting to be able to make a living of it, do you consider it normal for a bunch of college-dropouts and teenagers to simply download their products? You're not only stealing from these multi-billion $ corporations. You're also stealing from their employees, who may run out of jobs because their titles didn't sell well enough. You're stealing from small-time independant artists who may not get enough revenue for their next project, forcing them to quit their line of work.




 




Freedom against oppression? If violent thugs start having daily raids on whatever area, would you be surprised when law-enforcement applies zero tolerance? Freedom against oppression?




 




These illegal activites have to be stopped. If 'SOPA' is what it takes to do it, then so be it. Blame your fellow leeches for it. I know I am. I don't like that SOPA any more than they do, but I have it enforced upon me because of their selfishness and downright stupidity.


 


I agree with this.  


 


On the other hand:  I wish I lived such a drama-free life that I could convince myself that this is the most important cause I can take up.    I kind of envy the "They are trying to oppress us!" people.



 

What you and people like you are completely missing (which means you didn't read this article, since it addresses it) is that SOPA is worded in a way that creates a gray area for censorship beyond the scope of piracy. Very, VERY few people are complaining about the piracy portion of it. Most don't care. What people are concerned with is how this affects the internet and, ironically, the entertainment industry as a whole. Reading about the things you are defending is a good idea.

 

I lived a LOT of years before there even was the internet.  I can survive if they shut the thing down.   Whatever regulations they decide on is what they decide on.  I'm not going to turn an internet bill into a "righteous cause against what is destroying the very root of our society and my freedom" type thing. It's not that important to me. 

  adam_nox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2052

1/17/12 1:54:21 PM#93

I have to vehemently disagree with the last few posters.  This is about corporations lobbying relentlessly in order to increase profit margins.  This is a left-right issue as much as people want to put on tinfoil hats and pretend it's about anything more than profits and money.  It's not.  Never has been.  Everything leads to money.  Either for the masses or for the corporations.  That's the eternal struggle.

The fact that they are willing to go to any lengths shouldn't really be a surprise.  And yes it's republicans who primarily support this legislation.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6597

1/17/12 1:59:31 PM#94
Originally posted by troublmaker

The bill got quashed because it was largely misinterpreted from the public.  Whenever any freedom or right is challenged people always compare it to a country with little to no rights.  China censors their Internet to prevent foreign cultures and influences from hitting their people.  Japan most noteably has become hyper American and lost its sense of culture.  Why would China want the same?


China is by no means the only country in the world to DNS block.  As a matter of fact most countries other than America and third world countries DNS block.


In the late 90s and early 2000s there was a rise to two types of evils that had to be stopped.  The first was more obvious because it was a consumer demanded evil, piracy.  Piracy allowed people to get things that was once inaccessible to them as well as steal things that are accessible to them.


The thing that would cause Britian, Australia, and Canada to setup a DNS blocking system wasn't piracy but instead... child pornography.


Currently the only people who are not blocking child pornography in the world are America and the people who make it.  The demand for child pornography would not be curbed if America blocked, however their funding would be cut to shreds and they would not be as large of an industry as they are.


Honestly, a vote against SOPA is a vote for child subjugation and slavery, two industries greatly supported by an unmoderated Internet.


This is what the American Congress was sold on and this is why they supported it so strongly.  When the Internet's neutrality was attacked everyone came forward.  The developers of the Internet even came forward and lied stating it would "break" the Internet.  Really?  Break the Internet?  The Internet has not been broken in any of the 200 countries that use DNS blocking.


Overall this was a very powerful scare tactic deployed small studios and companies against giants.

First off, it is easy to get around DNS blocking, so it only effects the uninformed.  

At least understand what is in the bill before you go off the deep end and try to support it.   The bill eliminates due process,   With the current laws several sites have already been taken down without any method of appeal beyond filing suit against the government.  The judges allowing this won't accept appeals.   This just shouts the media companies being lazy and just want the government to do their dirty work.  Besides everyone knows how government agencies work, they act before they have any facts to support them.  Those sites taken down are mostly back up, but it took them almost a year to get them back up.  This bill will make that almost impossible. 

Secondly, the bills puts the responsibility on monitoring on the website.  Please explain how something like facebook, U-Tube, etc can even begin to monitor the millions of posts made every day.  Right, they can't.  That provision alone destroys the internet as we know it.

Piracy is a bad thing and I am all for something that controls it.  Neither of these two bills will do that.   When a bill is sponsored by the media companies you can bet it is bad for everyone else.  Their agenda is "we don't need to change" and "the world is out to get us".  

If you are for these bills then you completely do not understand what is in them.  You might want to take some time and read up on them.   There is a ton of information out there.

  Bookah

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/04/10
Posts: 237

"you are not prepared!"

1/17/12 2:03:45 PM#95



Originally posted by maplestone



I would point out that MMOs are a successful technical solution to the problem of piracy by changing the business model from selling a copy (the game client) to selling a service (the server) without any need for draconian laws.




 




Great point.






(Ohh and i love the word "Draconian".)






 






Also go Blizzard for not being represented by these wankers claiming to represent "The whole gaming industry."


 

  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1169

1/17/12 2:09:47 PM#96

Speak out all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that half the population of this community openly supports EA.


  Mendel

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 610

1/17/12 2:30:09 PM#97
Originally posted by Cambruin

Oh come on. Freedom against oppression? When people/companies invest time into a project, expecting to be able to make a living of it, do you consider it normal for a bunch of college-dropouts and teenagers to simply download their products? You're not only stealing from these multi-billion $ corporations. You're also stealing from their employees, who may run out of jobs because their titles didn't sell well enough. You're stealing from small-time independant artists who may not get enough revenue for their next project, forcing them to quit their line of work.


 


Freedom against oppression? If violent thugs start having daily raids on whatever area, would you be surprised when law-enforcement applies zero tolerance? Freedom against oppression?


 


These illegal activites have to be stopped. If 'SOPA' is what it takes to do it, then so be it. Blame your fellow leeches for it. I know I am. I don't like that SOPA any more than they do, but I have it enforced upon me because of their selfishness and downright stupidity.

My sentiments match this almost exactly.   Except for one thing.   SOPA/PIPA won't really cause the impact the legislators intend.

Instead of hampering off-shore piracy of movies and music (I've not seen gaming listed as a concern for these laws -- its all about movies, music and cosmetics), these will break a lot of internet security issues, by essentially enlisting the ISPs as the de facto enforcement agencies.  In order to spot the problems, ISPs will be required to filter the content of all traffic they recieve and block the source.  The real problem I have with SOPA/PIPA is that I don't want my ISP doing packet sniffing on everything that comes through them.  Theie service is slow enough as is, without adding additional and unnecessary administration in the way.

The way the legislation is written, the ISPs essentially have a free hand at blocking websites.  All it would take is an overzealous ISP noticing that Jerk_001 posted 'Get yer pirated stuff here!', and all of a sudden, MMORPG.com disappears for a number of users.   Even the current 'Conquer2: Invasion of Pirates' ad currently at the top of this page as I'm writing this reply could be misconstrued.  Putting enforcement in the hands of ATT, the cable companies and other miscreants isn't my idea of providing a secure internet.

Ultimately, this is simply bad legislation, and does not deserve to become law.  Theft is wrong, but SOPA/PIPA doesn't address the problem.

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  gbooster

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/06
Posts: 716

1/17/12 2:35:53 PM#98

The SOPA and PIPA bills is kinda like cutting your nose off to spite your face.


  mastersomrat

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 365

1/17/12 2:39:23 PM#99

It's a corrupt system when less that 1% of a nations population can even get a new law looked at, much less passed.  O wait, this is been going on foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! 

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3714

RIP City of Heroes!

1/17/12 2:39:34 PM#100
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Originally posted by Zekiah


Originally posted by itgrowls


Welp thanks all you folks that voted republican in November 2010 SOPA and PIPA are the results, along with them trying to kill unions, benefits, the middle class etc etc etc just another step backwards.




And yes SOPA should be killed in all its forms and names.


 Republican/Democrat is a false paradigm set up to keep people controlled and chained inside the proverbial box. The truth is, both sides are controlled by the same people who own the entire system.


R.I.P. Left-Right Paradigm


So let’s summarize a few effects of the left-right political divide:


1) ignites the political theater of the “left vs. right blame game”, creating false targets and enemies and dissipating potentially upsetting energies into harmless directions

2) distracts people with a relentless focus on trivial issues (i.e. gay marriage), to the complete exclusion of the critical issues (central banking, fiat money, etc) that silently ruin people’s lives

3) encourages people to believe that left-right are two extremes and no other ideas exist outside this spectrum, so alternative viewpoints are not represented (= a minimization of choice)

4) motivates people to favor political solutions for all problems, despite the fact that political solutions are by definition coercive in nature and thus only generate further discord and divisiveness

5) enables the divide-and-conquer technique to be utilized time after time (allow people to weaken themselves by fighting each other instead of fighting you with vigor)


read more...



 



Yup,


Looks like some people are quick to forget that it was the Clinton Whitehouse that gave use the oh-so-wonderfull-and-non-abused-because-it-came-from-my-side-of-the-aisle DMCA.


 


 

It's exactly this kind of information exchange that the bill's sponsors and endorsers intend to silence. It has NOTHING to with piracy, it's about censorship and information control.

Buzzwords, rhetoric and clever bill titles/language blind a lot of people to the truth.

It's a free speech issue for sure.  IF consumers want to say negative things about a product, bam, you can get shutdown.

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