Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

Thing is on this issue of sandbox I really dont THINK it has anything to do with possible customers. I THINK the demand would be there if it was in the market place. I THINK the real reason is simply because it costs more to develop and maintain...nothing more.

 

 

What you THINK is fine and dany. However, that is probably NOT enough for any investor to spend 10s of millions of dollars. The marketing company newszoo did lots of research on MMORPGs. I have seen reports about the growing trend (yes, with numbers, not wishy-washy OPINIONS) of F2P and things like that.

I wonder if they have info about the issue of hard core vs casual.

In fact, let me ask you this. Are YOU willing to bet 5 years of your career on making a hard core sandbox MMORPG?

again. I repeat my key point.

The reason I think they do not make sandboxes is NOT because of the demand or lack of demand but becuase of the cost of creating and maintaining.

You are addressing a secondary point which is fine but my key point is that I THINK it has nothing to with demand but everything to do with cost.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

again. I repeat my key point.

The reason I think they do not make sandboxes is NOT because of the demand or lack of demand but becuase of the cost of creating and maintaining.

You are addressing a secondary point which is fine but my key point is that I THINK it has nothing to with demand but everything to do with cost.

Same point. The demand is not high enough to offset the cost. If they have a guarantee demand of 10M, they will start making it tomorrow.

On the flip side, if the game is costing $5 to make, they don't need much demand.

It is always a comparison between demand and supply (i.e. cost).

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

again. I repeat my key point.

The reason I think they do not make sandboxes is NOT because of the demand or lack of demand but becuase of the cost of creating and maintaining.

You are addressing a secondary point which is fine but my key point is that I THINK it has nothing to with demand but everything to do with cost.

 

Same point. The demand is not high enough to offset the cost. If they have a guarantee demand of 10M, they will start making it tomorrow.

On the flip side, if the game is costing $5 to make, they don't need much demand.

It is always a comparison between demand and supply (i.e. cost).

no...I understand the demand to set of fhe cost arguement but I dont think that even comes into play.

I think its is 10000000000%%% nothing more than cost. peroid end of story. I dont think they ever even consider if the player base can be larger or not.

Sandboxes aren't intrinsically expensive.  A Tale in the Desert was made on a shoestring budget, and at its peak, had four paid employees.  I think part of the problem is that some people think of "sandbox" as meaning things that computers can't realistically be programmed to do.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Sandboxes aren't intrinsically expensive.  A Tale in the Desert was made on a shoestring budget, and at its peak, had four paid employees.  I think part of the problem is that some people think of "sandbox" as meaning things that computers can't realistically be programmed to do.

I can program a computer to do so many things. Its more that the hardware can't handle the software load. I think there are many ways of getting around hardware limitations, mainly with much simpler graphics and physics. For instance I could probably get a gamemaker graphics level game that satisfied the majority of sandbox requirements.

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Quizzical

Sandboxes aren't intrinsically expensive.  A Tale in the Desert was made on a shoestring budget, and at its peak, had four paid employees.  I think part of the problem is that some people think of "sandbox" as meaning things that computers can't realistically be programmed to do.

I can program a computer to do so many things. Its more that the hardware can't handle the software load. I think there are many ways of getting around hardware limitations, mainly with much simpler graphics and physics. For instance I could probably get a gamemaker graphics level game that satisfied the majority of sandbox requirements.

Sure, there's a lot that can be done.  But some people seem to want endless amounts of choices and branching that means that they'll miss 99% of the content, but still want there to be plenty of content that they do do.  You can give a game a lot of scripted content, but infinite content is harder.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Sandboxes aren't intrinsically expensive.  A Tale in the Desert was made on a shoestring budget, and at its peak, had four paid employees.  I think part of the problem is that some people think of "sandbox" as meaning things that computers can't realistically be programmed to do.

well that is a good point actually I concede my position.

In fact I forgot about how deep a LOT of inexpensive games have been so I totally withdraw my statement :)

Xyson is another example, although in all fairness not sure its actually working

Originally posted by Quizzical

Sandboxes aren't intrinsically expensive.  A Tale in the Desert was made on a shoestring budget, and at its peak, had four paid employees.  I think part of the problem is that some people think of "sandbox" as meaning things that computers can't realistically be programmed to do.

I dont think anyone is (or should) argue that sandbox MMOs are not being made. However, certainly there is no AAA development in this space.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Quizzical

Sandboxes aren't intrinsically expensive.  A Tale in the Desert was made on a shoestring budget, and at its peak, had four paid employees.  I think part of the problem is that some people think of "sandbox" as meaning things that computers can't realistically be programmed to do.

I can program a computer to do so many things. Its more that the hardware can't handle the software load. I think there are many ways of getting around hardware limitations, mainly with much simpler graphics and physics. For instance I could probably get a gamemaker graphics level game that satisfied the majority of sandbox requirements.

Sure, there's a lot that can be done.  But some people seem to want endless amounts of choices and branching that means that they'll miss 99% of the content, but still want there to be plenty of content that they do do.  You can give a game a lot of scripted content, but infinite content is harder.

Well actually you can generate endless content, its quite easy. The main issue is the graphical nature of the game and possibly how to modulate the challenge of auto content for players of varying levels. But then sandbox wise even scripted content might present challenge issues where some areas are more dangerous but in a sandbox its iffy to tell people that for exploration reasons.