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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Finally ready to get off the theme park ride

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89 posts found
  cyress8

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/05
Posts: 866

BOOYAKA!

1/16/12 3:58:33 PM#41


Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by DannyGlover

Q: I'm tired of themeparks. What should I do?
A: Wait for GW2 to come out.
/boggle



 My bad Danny, I forgot that GW2 isn't a Traditional THEMEPARK mmo

Fixed it for you.

BOOYAKA!

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

1/16/12 4:04:08 PM#42

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnl2ScjsWvk&feature=relmfu

So GW2 has a cow race also?

/facepalm

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13273

1/16/12 4:08:49 PM#43

Guild Wars 2 is going to be very much a theme park game.  So will TERA.  I'm not convinced that ArcheAge won't be mostly theme park, either.  They'll do some things differently from your typical WoW clone, but so did Guild Wars, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Wizard 101, and a number of other games that are very much theme park games.

If the original poster had played, say, WoW, SWTOR, LotRO, Runes of Magic, and some other games that were trying too hard to be WoW-clones, then I'd suggest that maybe a rather different theme park game is in order.  But there's a decent variety in that list of games he's played.

  pierth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1515

1/16/12 4:11:18 PM#44
Originally posted by NBlitz
@Teala
Come on Teala, have some sympathy.
They (those jumping out of the TORtanic) now know better and I believe they shouldn't be kicked even further when they're down.
How it all is going down speaks for itself.
Many are having enough humble pie. There's no need to cram some more down their throats :)

Agreed, and a good attitude to have. I can see the temptation though, I wrote "I can't wait for the threads from people that blindly shelled out $150 for the CE and TOR doesn't turn out to be the game they wanted. I may need a towel handy for the schadenfreudegasm." back at the end of October, and believe me January hasn't disappointed me whatsoever but it's still a shame when anyone loses a pasttime interest. Can only hope they don't buy hype next time. I guess we'll see with GW2.

  Speedhaak

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 286

'At the end of time the ultimate computation will simulate the Universe and resurrect the dead!'

1/16/12 4:11:31 PM#45

Money is king. Publishers are making all the calls for this genre. None of the major contenders (EA, Activision, Ubisoft ect...) are going to chance money on a Sandbox game that has to this point - no real proven forumla for success. I hate to say it, but I honestly think we're stuck with Themepark MMOs for the foreseeable future. 

  Halfmad

Mortal Online Correspondent

Joined: 12/16/04
Posts: 83

1/16/12 4:16:13 PM#46

Keeping any eye on Dominus at the moment, has potential but I have high hopes for Darkfall 2.0 whenever that actually happens, never played the first Darkfall myself although I do have a friend who loves it (I just haven't had the time). Hopefully if DF2 happens I'll jump all over it.

Sadly I can't see either of them out anytime soon which leaves me at a loose end. Tempted to give Darkfall a shot but I dont' want to start it only to find out DF2 pop out 2 months later!

  ukforze

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/06
Posts: 367

1/16/12 4:18:30 PM#47
Originally posted by jpnole

I am old enough to have played the first mmos but I didn't get started until 2005 with WoW. Since that time I played GW, AOC (max level), COH (40s and several alts), Rift (max level) and SWTOR (level 21). By no means am I a mmo vet like some folks on here, but I've played my share. Rewind to Rift. I bought a 6 month sub somehow thinking that it was a different game. It was like I was under a spell. After a month and a half, I hit max level, maxed out my crafting and suddenly it dawned on me that I was just going through the motions. I didn't play for most of the remaining 4 months of my sub time. Now with SWTOR, I had the same burnout at the 3 week mark. I was only level 21 but I maxed out a crafting tier and had the same realization. Fortunately, I only had 30 days of included box time so I was able to cancel today. I realized that I was just chasing that carrot on a  stick. No matter what the game, whether you are level 5, 10, 50 or max level, you are on an endless treadmill with no purpose other than to hit the next level, tier, etc.

 

I think I am finally ready to say good bye to the same tired old theme park formula and just wait for the right mmo to come out. Who knows when it will be. Due to the SWTOR beta and early access, I didn't get a chance to fully explore Skyrim so at least I have that to provide some sandbox entertainment, albeit non-mmo. I can't count the number of times I saw someone trash theme park games in favor of sandbox games on here.... now I understand why. I never played any of the pre 2005 sandbox mmos so I feel like I have missed out. Maybe Archage will be that game. Do we even know enough about TSW, Tera or GW2 to determine if they will be just the same old formula? I am no longer going to be a paying lab rat for these mad scientist theme park mmo creating devs. No more carrots!

I've felt this way for nearly 7yrs now m8, it doesn't get easier with time, it's unfortunately never

going to change, the devs don't care for me, you or the thousands like us...

 

We are destined to float from game to game, never finding that lost love & moaning like old men for eternity 

 

**EDIT**

I too am keeping an eye on dominus, this will be my last ditch effort, if that fails, then no more games for me.

The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR

  Roland_Aseph

Novice Member

Joined: 9/02/04
Posts: 138

"Speak softly and carry a damn Big Sword!"

1/16/12 4:18:32 PM#48

Fallen Earth 

 

Sandbox

 

F2P

 

Currently playing, has a good & growing community with a solid base.

 

Just thought I'd mention it.

 

RA :)

"It'll be dark soon."
"Aye...that it will."

  Meltdown

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/09/03
Posts: 1190

1/16/12 4:18:57 PM#49

Get into an indie game, make some friends, contribute to the development community. If you really want to get off the theme park train, it requires a bit of effort on your part. Make an effort and you will find surprises where you least expect them... the hardest part of this whole thing (and why I find it difficult to do this) is my friends always want to play the latest and greatest themepark MMO and have... choice words... for any of the indie games I've played... oh well...

"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath

  stayontarget

Guide

Joined: 10/04/08
Posts: 6125

Girlfriends come and go but Epic battles are Soulbound

1/16/12 4:21:32 PM#50
Originally posted by Quizzical

Guild Wars 2 is going to be very much a theme park game.  So will TERA.  I'm not convinced that ArcheAge won't be mostly theme park, either.  They'll do some things differently from your typical WoW clone, but so did Guild Wars, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Wizard 101, and a number of other games that are very much theme park games.

If the original poster had played, say, WoW, SWTOR, LotRO, Runes of Magic, and some other games that were trying too hard to be WoW-clones, then I'd suggest that maybe a rather different theme park game is in order.  But there's a decent variety in that list of games he's played.

Quizz nailed it quite well imo.

Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5011

1/16/12 4:24:20 PM#51
Originally posted by Meltdown

Get into an indie game, make some friends, contribute to the development community. If you really want to get off the theme park train, it requires a bit of effort on your part. Make an effort and you will find surprises where you least expect them... the hardest part of this whole thing (and why I find it difficult to do this) is my friends always want to play the latest and greatest themepark MMO and have... choice words... for any of the indie games I've played... oh well...

classic story.

I played EQ2 and didnt really like it all that much but I assumed that  the top titles for MMO's would be as good as it gets because they had the money to spend.

One day I was thinking how cool it would be to have the whole clan have to work at getting the resources to craft something like a cannon which would then be taken on raids as a group.

The very next day I read about Darkfall a month later I played it and for me I was awe-struck on all levels. Now yes I know lots of people dont like the game and that is fine. The point is, in this business lots of money doesnt mean  better and one does have to get off the themepark

Correlation does not imply causation

  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 684

1/16/12 4:28:13 PM#52
Originally posted by jpnole

I am old enough to have played the first mmos but I didn't get started until 2005 with WoW. Since that time I played GW, AOC (max level), COH (40s and several alts), Rift (max level) and SWTOR (level 21). By no means am I a mmo vet like some folks on here, but I've played my share. Rewind to Rift. I bought a 6 month sub somehow thinking that it was a different game. It was like I was under a spell. After a month and a half, I hit max level, maxed out my crafting and suddenly it dawned on me that I was just going through the motions. I didn't play for most of the remaining 4 months of my sub time. Now with SWTOR, I had the same burnout at the 3 week mark. I was only level 21 but I maxed out a crafting tier and had the same realization. Fortunately, I only had 30 days of included box time so I was able to cancel today. I realized that I was just chasing that carrot on a  stick. No matter what the game, whether you are level 5, 10, 50 or max level, you are on an endless treadmill with no purpose other than to hit the next level, tier, etc.

 

I think I am finally ready to say good bye to the same tired old theme park formula and just wait for the right mmo to come out. Who knows when it will be. Due to the SWTOR beta and early access, I didn't get a chance to fully explore Skyrim so at least I have that to provide some sandbox entertainment, albeit non-mmo. I can't count the number of times I saw someone trash theme park games in favor of sandbox games on here.... now I understand why. I never played any of the pre 2005 sandbox mmos so I feel like I have missed out. Maybe Archage will be that game. Do we even know enough about TSW, Tera or GW2 to determine if they will be just the same old formula? I am no longer going to be a paying lab rat for these mad scientist theme park mmo creating devs. No more carrots!

What you describe usually happens to MMO gamers that play more than a few hours a week.

A kill quest is a kill quest & a delivery quest is a delivery quest....regardless if you're in WOW, Aion or SWTOR.

There might be some subtle differences in mechanics, LFD tool, wings, or companions....but at the core, its the same treadmill.  YOU (as a player) are defined by the gear you wear.  As a requirement to wear the good gear, you need levels.  So you run dungeons that gives gear that enables you to run the next set of dungeons that drop the next set of gear.....that allows you to run the NEXT set of dungeons...etc.

Thats an over simplified view, but essentiall that is what exists at the core....and that's why your burnout rate carries over from themepark game to themepark game.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5011

1/16/12 4:31:08 PM#53
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by jpnole

I am old enough to have played the first mmos but I didn't get started until 2005 with WoW. Since that time I played GW, AOC (max level), COH (40s and several alts), Rift (max level) and SWTOR (level 21). By no means am I a mmo vet like some folks on here, but I've played my share. Rewind to Rift. I bought a 6 month sub somehow thinking that it was a different game. It was like I was under a spell. After a month and a half, I hit max level, maxed out my crafting and suddenly it dawned on me that I was just going through the motions. I didn't play for most of the remaining 4 months of my sub time. Now with SWTOR, I had the same burnout at the 3 week mark. I was only level 21 but I maxed out a crafting tier and had the same realization. Fortunately, I only had 30 days of included box time so I was able to cancel today. I realized that I was just chasing that carrot on a  stick. No matter what the game, whether you are level 5, 10, 50 or max level, you are on an endless treadmill with no purpose other than to hit the next level, tier, etc.

 

I think I am finally ready to say good bye to the same tired old theme park formula and just wait for the right mmo to come out. Who knows when it will be. Due to the SWTOR beta and early access, I didn't get a chance to fully explore Skyrim so at least I have that to provide some sandbox entertainment, albeit non-mmo. I can't count the number of times I saw someone trash theme park games in favor of sandbox games on here.... now I understand why. I never played any of the pre 2005 sandbox mmos so I feel like I have missed out. Maybe Archage will be that game. Do we even know enough about TSW, Tera or GW2 to determine if they will be just the same old formula? I am no longer going to be a paying lab rat for these mad scientist theme park mmo creating devs. No more carrots!

What you describe usually happens to MMO gamers that play more than a few hours a week.

A kill quest is a kill quest & a delivery quest is a delivery quest....regardless if you're in WOW, Aion or SWTOR.

There might be some subtle differences in mechanics, LFD tool, wings, or companions....but at the core, its the same treadmill.  YOU (as a player) are defined by the gear you wear.  As a requirement to wear the good gear, you need levels.  So you run dungeons that gives gear that enables you to run the next set of dungeons that drop the next set of gear.....that allows you to run the NEXT set of dungeons...etc.

Thats an over simplified view, but essentiall that is what exists at the core....and that's why your burnout rate carries over from themepark game to themepark game.

personally I dont have a problem with a gear based centric game. If you think outside of the box a gear centered game could be created that looks nothing at all like any game we have ever experienced as an MMO.

As a radical example take the Sims which is basically the same forumla as an RPG with gear focus as its core engine, but clearly COMPLETELY different from 'kill 100 rats'

Correlation does not imply causation

  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 684

1/16/12 4:48:38 PM#54
Originally posted by Speedhaak

Money is king. Publishers are making all the calls for this genre. None of the major contenders (EA, Activision, Ubisoft ect...) are going to chance money on a Sandbox game that has to this point - no real proven forumla for success. I hate to say it, but I honestly think we're stuck with Themepark MMOs for the foreseeable future. 

The reason the big publishers won't touch a sandbox is because the audience is too small to warrent a 10-100 million dollar project.  They would rather risk 10 million on a WOW clone with a DOWNSIDE of 300k subs, instead of spending that same money on a sandbox that has an UPSIDE of around 300k subs.

 

The indie developers have tried to fill this gap, but have fallen short in most cases because they are trying to compete with the likes of Blizzard, EA, and NCSoft in the polish & asthetics department and don't have the funds to create a fully fledged massive 3D world, award winning soundtrack, and complicated & advanced technologies.  Mortal Online tries to solve world hunger on a facebook game budget and fails misserably.  Sandbox gaming gets the blame when its the bad launch, bugs, glitches, and half of the advertised features inplemented.

 

Indie developers need to understand their audience.  You think EVE players are concerned with how sweet their gear looks, or that they get grouped with players from other servers?

 

Indie developers need to pull the scope in of their projects and reduce cost on the fluff items that mainstream MMO gamers find important...but aren't that important to MMO gamers that want to live & breathe in a virtual world.

 

Instead of spending a ton of money on the industries most advanced 3D engine, use a nice looking isometric view (think Diablo, Torch Light, Battle of Immortals) and save money there.

Instead of spending a ton of money on award winning orchestras to lay down the game soundtrack......find a good rennesance band that gets paid shillings to perform at festivals to put something together for a fantasy based game.

Instead of spending a ton of money on network engineers & complicated netowork technology to make cross server grouping, and instance farms....make a large persistant world where people have to interact with their own communities to overcome challenges in the game.

You don't have to spend a lot of time and resources on coming up with balanced rulesets.....just take Ultima Online's notiery system & overall game structure (minus the bugs) and BAM, problem solved on the cheap.

 

The formula is there.....its just that every indie developer that has tried to do something in the last 3-4 years have been trying to compete in areas of MMO gaming that aren't important to sandbox fans....and as a result have fallen short of development and had terrible launches.

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 895

There's some lovely filth down here.

1/16/12 5:00:13 PM#55

As far as the sandbox deal goes, I'm in the same boat as a lot of you guys.  Played Darkfall for a while, then went to play WoW again after Cata came out.  Couldn't take the themepark way of doing things.  Went back to Darkfall.  Tried Rift, got to about 30ish, couldn't take the themepark deal any more, went back to Darkfall.  Hopped on the TORtanic (I love that, btw whoever it was who previously quipped it), enjoyd it for a few weeks, and am now unsubbed.  And...back to Darkfall.

 

This makes the 5th or 6th "Return of Pink Floyd".  Feel free to kill me - doesn't take much.  Especially on a Friday night when I'm quite well knackered.

  pierth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1515

1/16/12 5:11:24 PM#56
Originally posted by RajCaj

The reason the big publishers won't touch a sandbox is because the audience is too small to warrent a 10-100 million dollar project.  They would rather risk 10 million on a WOW clone with a DOWNSIDE of 300k subs, instead of spending that same money on a sandbox that has an UPSIDE of around 300k subs.

Source? I have no doubt in my mind that if a big name publisher made a sandbox with the polish and accessibility of WoW as well as the standard advertising and hype that it would do at least as well as the WoW clones- even better if it drew from an established IP. The only reason why SWG didn't become the WoW of sandboxes was because of the horrible launch and eventually $OE f*cking the whole thing up. Look at how many people play Zynga games- you're really telling me that with that many people out there playing the -Ville games among others that there's no room to bring that idea to the next level and add tools for the more creative players to add things?

 

It's just short-sighted and lazy.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2847

1/16/12 5:42:47 PM#57
Originally posted by pierth
Originally posted by RajCaj

The reason the big publishers won't touch a sandbox is because the audience is too small to warrent a 10-100 million dollar project.  They would rather risk 10 million on a WOW clone with a DOWNSIDE of 300k subs, instead of spending that same money on a sandbox that has an UPSIDE of around 300k subs.

Source? I have no doubt in my mind that if a big name publisher made a sandbox with the polish and accessibility of WoW as well as the standard advertising and hype that it would do at least as well as the WoW clones- even better if it drew from an established IP. The only reason why SWG didn't become the WoW of sandboxes was because of the horrible launch and eventually $OE f*cking the whole thing up. Look at how many people play Zynga games- you're really telling me that with that many people out there playing the -Ville games among others that there's no room to bring that idea to the next level and add tools for the more creative players to add things?

 

It's just short-sighted and lazy.

Nobody really knows how big or small the audience for a good sandbox (or even sandbox/themepark hybrid) game will be.

 

We might get some idea if Archeage ever launches in the West, but even then it's leaning toward FFA-PVP might be a limiting factor on sub numbers.

 

The biggest obstacle is that the numbers are totally unknown, therefore it's a huge financial risk...

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15487

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

1/16/12 5:56:14 PM#58
Originally posted by Teala
 

Ummm...::shakes her head::: wait...what?   Is this the same guy that was trumpeting the greatness of SWTOR less than a month ago?  Also saying it would retain lots of players and you have all ready given up and teh first month is not even gone by?

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336175/page/1

What are you trying to show in this link and the following post ? The guy didn't say SWTOR was the "greatest ever" he only acknowledged the things it did differently, he didn't attack anyone in that thread, nor call you haters that I could see anyway,  wth?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  User Deleted
1/16/12 6:59:38 PM#59
Originally posted by xDayx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnl2ScjsWvk&feature=relmfu

So GW2 has a cow race also?

/facepalm

It's actually more of a cat.  It has horns for some reason, but also claws, fangs and catlike fur.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gMceI9FaAf8#t=202s

I can't find a good video of female character creation, but this picture should get the point across.

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 895

There's some lovely filth down here.

1/16/12 7:10:18 PM#60
Originally posted by cali59
Originally posted by xDayx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnl2ScjsWvk&feature=relmfu

So GW2 has a cow race also?

/facepalm

It's actually more of a cat.  It has horns for some reason, but also claws, fangs and catlike fur.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gMceI9FaAf8#t=202s

I can't find a good video of female character creation, but this picture should get the point across.


I shall call it MooCat, and it shall produce milk and purr when I rub its belly.

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