Why people love f2p is beyond me,  this sort of stuff always happens.

Pay to win what? PVE? who gives a crap, if someone wants to waste tehre money to make there little stats better (which isnt even needed, ive been using armour i got at the start of moria and im 65) then more power to them.

Originally posted by Shivam

Originally posted by DKLond

I find it deliciously ironic that a game based on a book that's 100% about the dangers of corruption - has steadily been corrupted.

This has been obvious from the day they went F2P.

Now, there should be no doubt - even for those blinded by faith in Turbine.

Some people live in their own little world. Gaming is a business. Call it corruption or greed but they gotto make money and considering the tough economic times everyone has the right to be corrupt and pull all stops to survive and take care of their families. I run a small company so i know, do i give a damn about what idealistics like you think? nope.

Wow...just wow.....'everyone has a right to be corrupt'? Really? No, really?  And you run a small business? Please, tell me your business so I can avoid it.  What is this effing world coming to....

If one can't run a business without being corrupt, maybe one should get out of the business.

Originally posted by warmaster670

Pay to win what? PVE? who gives a crap, if someone wants to waste tehre money to make there little stats better (which isnt even needed, ive been using armour i got at the start of moria and im 65) then more power to them.

On one side this is true, but on the other it raises a valid question - why would someone take you in a group over someone else who's buffed himself up through cash shop? Math is math, after all.

Originally posted by spaceport

 NEUTRAL BALLLL, LET'S GOOOOO BERSERK

Don't you worry, im sure there are going to be cool stuff for you to buy when SWTOR goes f2p :)

Nothing is F2P..there is no such things as F2P. Even if SWTOR goes F2P (lol) i would still stick to 15 bucks a month. That is still best bang for my buck. 

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Shivam

Originally posted by DKLond

I find it deliciously ironic that a game based on a book that's 100% about the dangers of corruption - has steadily been corrupted.

This has been obvious from the day they went F2P.

Now, there should be no doubt - even for those blinded by faith in Turbine.

Some people live in their own little world. Gaming is a business. Call it corruption or greed but they gotto make money and considering the tough economic times everyone has the right to be corrupt and pull all stops to survive and take care of their families. I run a small company so i know, do i give a damn about what idealistics like you think? nope.

Wow...just wow.....'everyone has a right to be corrupt'? Really? No, really?  And you run a small business? Please, tell me your business so I can avoid it.  What is this effing world coming to....

If one can't run a business without being corrupt, maybe one should get out of the business.

 ehh? he called it corrupt not me. All i said was that if this what is considered  corruption than every company has right to be corrupt. Even though i see no corruption or lies but usual business practise. If all corruption in world would be to same level as Turbine this world would be much better place to live in.

You people get so emotional while punching your key board that you don't even bother to read.

Originally posted by Shivam

Originally posted by DKLond

Originally posted by Shivam

Originally posted by DKLond

Originally posted by Shivam

Originally posted by DKLond

I find it deliciously ironic that a game based on a book that's 100% about the dangers of corruption - has steadily been corrupted.

This has been obvious from the day they went F2P.

Now, there should be no doubt - even for those blinded by faith in Turbine.

Some people live in their own little world. Gaming is a business. Call it corruption or greed but they gotto make money and considering the tough economic times everyone has the right to be corrupt and pull all stops to survive and take care of their families. I run a small company so i know, do i give a damn about what idealistics like you think? nope.

 You think I - as a paying customer - care about the reason you choose to lie and corrupt yourself?

No, I just want to play a game that's worth what I invest.

LOTRO is no longer that.

It is quite obvious that you don't care. By the way i was using the words that you chose.. 'corrupt'. Even though i see no corruption just a usual way of conducting business. You want to see what corruption really means then visit India and Pakistan. You would know what the world really stands for.

You must live a very sheltered life if this is what you think what corruption really is.

 Corruption is a very simple concept. It's a about integrity, morals and honesty.

In this case, Turbine lied about not bringing items with stats into the item shop.

I guess because you have a business that you find tough, everyone who lies and changes their policies do so because they need to survive.

Right?

Sorry, but it doesn't quite work for me. Either you keep your promise, or you're a liar. Since they benefit from their lies - it's corruption. Pure and simple.

Every corrupt person will have a reason they corrupted themselves. It's still corruption, though.

That is called survival. Unless they are not hurting anyone emotionally or physically i wouldn't worry about it. Real corruption changes lives and effects people emotionally in a big way and if you are that emotionally invested ina video game where it becomes your personality and life then that is whole another issue and i wouldn't like to get into that.

Although i wonder how many times you have been able to keep all the promises you made to others in life.

Your attitude is why the world looks like it does.

No one is "hurting" anyone - they're just adding to ever more layers of corruption and greed and calling it survival.

As the wise person stated a few posts before this, capitalism is a nice idea that doesn't survive humanity. Especially not when people like you are so abundant.

I have broken promises - but the key is to be accountable. To pretend it's "ok" because I needed to survive is dishonest and pathetic.

This whole "survival" angle on every business squeezing that extra drop when they don't need it, isn't convincing. It's just another excuse to be greedy.

Originally posted by DKLond

Originally posted by Shivam

Originally posted by DKLond

Originally posted by Shivam

Originally posted by DKLond

Originally posted by Shivam

Originally posted by DKLond

I find it deliciously ironic that a game based on a book that's 100% about the dangers of corruption - has steadily been corrupted.

This has been obvious from the day they went F2P.

Now, there should be no doubt - even for those blinded by faith in Turbine.

Some people live in their own little world. Gaming is a business. Call it corruption or greed but they gotto make money and considering the tough economic times everyone has the right to be corrupt and pull all stops to survive and take care of their families. I run a small company so i know, do i give a damn about what idealistics like you think? nope.

 You think I - as a paying customer - care about the reason you choose to lie and corrupt yourself?

No, I just want to play a game that's worth what I invest.

LOTRO is no longer that.

It is quite obvious that you don't care. By the way i was using the words that you chose.. 'corrupt'. Even though i see no corruption just a usual way of conducting business. You want to see what corruption really means then visit India and Pakistan. You would know what the world really stands for.

You must live a very sheltered life if this is what you think what corruption really is.

 Corruption is a very simple concept. It's a about integrity, morals and honesty.

In this case, Turbine lied about not bringing items with stats into the item shop.

I guess because you have a business that you find tough, everyone who lies and changes their policies do so because they need to survive.

Right?

Sorry, but it doesn't quite work for me. Either you keep your promise, or you're a liar. Since they benefit from their lies - it's corruption. Pure and simple.

Every corrupt person will have a reason they corrupted themselves. It's still corruption, though.

That is called survival. Unless they are not hurting anyone emotionally or physically i wouldn't worry about it. Real corruption changes lives and effects people emotionally in a big way and if you are that emotionally invested ina video game where it becomes your personality and life then that is whole another issue and i wouldn't like to get into that.

Although i wonder how many times you have been able to keep all the promises you made to others in life.

Your attitude is why the world looks like it does.

No one is "hurting" anyone - they're just adding to ever more layers of corruption and greed and calling it survival.

As the wise person stated a few posts before this, capitalism is a nice idea that doesn't survive humanity. Especially not when people like you are so abundant.

I have broken promises - but the key is to be accountable. To pretend it's "ok" because I needed to survive is dishonest and pathetic.

This whole "survival" angle on every business squeezing that extra drop when they don't need it, isn't convincing. It's just another excuse to be greedy.

You mean people like me who don't judge others without first having a look in the mirror? okie!

Step out of that room of yours dude..i  hardly doubt you even know what the state the world really is in, if all your comparisons come from a freakin video game.

You mean people like me who don't judge others without first having a look in the mirror? okie!

Step out of that room of yours dude..i  hardly doubt you even know what the state the world really is in, if all your comparisons come from a freakin video game.

 Oh, so you're not "judging" by stating - as a fact - that Turbine is doing what they do to survive, and nothing more. You're not "judging" me when you state - over and over - that I don't know what the world looks like and I need to step out of my room?

I'm not "judging" you - I'm going by what you're telling me. You're saying lying and being corrupt is "ok" - because it's not AS corrupt as what you consider real corruption.

Oh, and I DO look myself in the mirror every day. I was raised with love and I learned that money isn't everything. In fact, I learned by looking around that most people are wasting away chasing something that - even if they get it - will never make them happy. They're so obsessed with chasing this "survival" thing called money - that they don't much care what happens to the people that get in the way when they're doing business.

I'm sorry, but corruption is a very easy concept to grasp - and Turbine has PROVEN themselves corrupt here - regardless of any fantasy scenario of them starving. What LEVEL of corruption you want to call it, is your business. But it's 100% flat-out corruption.

About your whole "video" game argument - we're on a VIDEO GAME website. We're talking about a VIDEO GAME - and we're talking about the VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY. 

realy offtopic......admins better close it then imho :p

As others have already pointed out, LotRO is primarily a PvE game. How can you pay to win in a PvE game? Pay to win what? The other thing I can't understand is how people are defending the out of date P2P model. Turbine has shown the way with the fremium payment model, turning around a failing game like Dungeons and Dragons and in turn, making an already successful game, LotRO into an even more successful one. After five years on the market, not only has LotRO not had to close or merge any servers, they  actually had to add more to cope with the increase in player numbers.

More and more games are changing to the freemium model because it has been shown to work. P2P is on its way out and newly released games like SWTOR and up and coming games such as The Secret World will have hard decisions to make in the coming year if they are to have a long term player base.

I'm sure we will see a huge drop in numbers playing SWTOR when the first sub becomes due in a couple of days time and the following months will see a steady decline, At some stage, conversion to some kind of freemium model will become inevitable.

The bottom line is that less and less people will be willing to pay monthly subsriptions in the future, when there will be so many games that won't require them.

Originally posted by reaperuk

As others have already pointed out, LotRO is primarily a PvE game. How can you pay to win in a PvE game? Pay to win what? The other thing I can't understand is how people are defending the out of date P2P model. Turbine has shown the way with the fremium payment model, turning around a failing game like Dungeons and Dragons and in turn, making an already successful game, LotRO into an even more successful one. After five years on the market, not only has LotRO not had to close or merge any servers, they  actually had to add more to cope with the increase in player numbers.

More and more games are changing to the freemium model because it has been shown to work. P2P is on its way out and newly released games like SWTOR and up and coming games such as The Secret World will have hard decisions to make in the coming year if they are to have a long term player base.

I'm sure we will see a huge drop in numbers playing SWTOR when the first sub becomes due in a couple of days time and the following months will see a steady decline, At some stage, conversion to some kind of freemium model will become inevitable.

The bottom line is that less and less people will be willing to pay monthly subsriptions in the future, when there will be so many games that won't require them.

 

You're taking the P2W concept literally. It's not about paying to win - but paying to progress faster than you would otherwise.

In modern MMOs (PvP/PvE) - in the current aftermath of the soon-to-be-dead subscription model - the basic design is to stretch out content to make it last as long as possible.

Most modern MMOs don't have more content than a big singleplayer game. They're just stretching it out by clever design. The design challenge for the MMO developer, is to make the process of progression appear fun, rather than a grind.

This used to work, because the novelty of the genre was powerful - and the CONCEPT of playing with thousands of people in a shared fantasy is - and likely always will be - VERY appealing.

Unfortunately, what happens to people when they discover they can generate a ton of profit with minimal effort, is that they jump on the opportunity. Modern MMOs is a result of that.

Now, the P2W model REPLACES the grindy progression with a slightly faster progression based on how much you pay.

I suppose that would be "ok" - until you stop and use your brain.

You're playing a game you're supposed to be enjoying, and you're supposed to be enjoying the levelling process - AND the discovery of loot and what not.

Guess what. The reason P2W models are so successful - is because people DON'T actually enjoy that process. They PREFER to pay their way to a faster progression - expecting some kind of rainbow at the end of the level cap. But there is no rainbow in modern themepark MMOs. There's just ever more stretching of ever less content.

If that's a good business model - you're either an idiot or a businessman. You most certainly aren't an informed consumer.

It's not P2W - it's P2C. Pay to Cheat... yourself.

The ONLY consumer-friendly business model in the current MMO market - is the B2P model. The Guild Wars model.

They're NOT obligated to keep you playing, and they're NOT obligated to stretch out content and hide the grind. They're ONLY obligated to make it FUN enough that you will come back and buy the expansion after a year.

THAT is the consumer's best model.

i am boring to see everyone cry , its a wonderful expansion , with good gameplay , good instances , nice community , nice boss fights , nice gear , nice art work , what more u want?pvp , i like the pvp , i know other game have better pvp than lotro , but thats it , on lotro u can die in 5 sec , its realistic , on other games like wow u fight 45 mins no one die and arena end draw!there is more coming on lotro , if u dont want to play it quit!

its so simple !! WoW have alot of players , but in every forum theu say something bad for this , now for TOR too , for Rift too , for LOTRO too . the point is that HATERS IS EVERYWHERE!!!!! if u dont like a game quit!!!!!