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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Innovation in the Old Republic

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120 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

1/13/12 11:15:13 AM#21

The real question... is are these 'innovations' important/good enough to keep players interested in the long term?

Rift was a very innovative game, but it unfortunately failed to keep many players interested as the core mechanics and playstyle was very similar to what's already been around for several years.

Will SWTOR encounter the same issues once the novelty of the 'new' features wear off?


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2428

1/13/12 11:15:33 AM#22

There are two definition for innovate. Introducing something new, what most are saying SWTOR doesn't do, or taking what has been done before and making it work differently, which SWTOR does well at with what is covered in the article. A common thing I see is people say if it's been done before then it isn't innovation- which is untrue.

I think Isabelle is right to say that BW choose correctly by having several small incremental innovations instead of a big flashy invention.




Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 132

1/13/12 11:17:39 AM#23

I'm sorry but i totally disagree with this optimistic article.

1) No auto attack? Innovative? You kidding, right? Even in WoW clones if you auto attacking as a caster (100% at end game content) means you suck hard. And no auto attack on melee classes in my point of view is a bad move really.

2) Companions is what ruined this game for me as a MMO. You just don't need anyone and ok playing with yourself. Is that good? Not for a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game in my point of view. This and SWTOR quest system that actually force people to be more solo oriented. I heard from a lot of ppl thing like "why the hell i need to group that will only ruin my experience with story line and quests". And i must admit they have a point. It's very irritating sometime to wait for a guy that read subtitles in quest dialogue to advance or something. So for me levelling in SWTOR till 50 lvl (Sith Inquisitor Sorcerer) was a mediocre KOTOR experience and worst MMORPG experience ever. And companions played a major role in that. Like why the hell i want to party with dudes when i can solo everything including most heroic 2+ quests as a healer (screw that heroic 4 - with so much troubles to get a party they don't worth that).

3) Crafting. It's actually ok since in theme park games (or WoW clones) end game crafting is almost useless for most of professions because gear from raids/hard modes >> crafted. That sucks, but as in WoW only 3 professions are ok end game wise.

All in all SWTOR is an another theme park and it's worth than most of current theme park MMORPGs like WoW, Rift or even Aion. But don't get me wrong - It was great experience to level up a Sith and a Jedi but after that this game can't offer you something interesting. At all! So thank you BioWare next time please do a great single player game like you (almost) always do (not a crap as DA2) and everyone will be happy. As it is now, i'm disappointed in SWTOR and cancelled my subscription.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/13/12 11:19:32 AM#24

I did not notice the missing auto attack, but I tend to play classes that don't have auto attacks (more the priests/mages/casters). That's a good point're always thinking a bit about what your character is doing. Agreed.

Companions are a cool aspect of the game. Agreed.

On crafting, there are some new aspects to it (sending companions, crafting missions coming from other crafting missions, etc.) but it's fundamentally the same as in other games. It's really isolated to the player, and at max level it seems to lose most of the utility. So, Disagree, even if I think it has potential.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.


Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 18382

1/13/12 11:21:14 AM#25
Originally posted by lthompson94


No other game in the history of games besides MMOs (maybe something I don't know about) have it.  It's not necessary.  Say what you want about 1,1,2,3,1,1 etc.  Every game ever does it.  Hell, FPS games are just click, click, click, right click, click click... and they are fun as hell.

more like the highlighted part. There are games that have had auto-attack.

The neverwitner nights games, actually Dragaon Age,

Baldur's gate and I would imagine all the games in that series

summoner had auto attack.

If I went through my old games collection I believe I could find more.

you have to know that there are people who don't like click, click click, click.



Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 1267

1/13/12 11:23:11 AM#26

This is blowing my mind. The combat is not innovative. City of heroes had no auto-attack and everyone could rez in city of heroes too just pass your groupmate an awaken inspiration. The crafting is just automated and doesn't require any player attention. It's like training skills in EVE Online. The companion idea just came from KOTOR. Heck the most innovative feature they did you completely missed. Fully voiced story. There must be a page 2 that I missed where you talk about the fully voiced stories...

How to post links.

"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  User Deleted
1/13/12 11:45:53 AM#27

Hey my smuggler girl char has a kick people in the nuts skill with animation no less :)

Pretty innovative lol.



Advanced Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2115

1/13/12 11:46:28 AM#28

As mentioned, CoH had no auto attack, DC universe had no autoattack, CO has no auto attack.  The first two have better combat than any other mmo.  Sadly TOR just takes WoW combat and removes auto attack without improving anything else.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 1267

1/13/12 11:51:03 AM#29

Well I guess they did add a cover mechanic for those gun slingers. I just find it unreliable. If you have something targeted you will roll to the little green outline. In pvp with the ability delay this can almost be a 5 second self stun. In PVE you can end up rolling right into a group of bad guys. If you rebind the cover in place hotkey to "F" and remove the roll to cover it's much better.

How to post links.

"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  User Deleted
1/13/12 11:56:52 AM#30
Originally posted by nilden

Well I guess they did add a cover mechanic for those gun slingers. I just find it unreliable. If you have something targeted you will roll to the little green outline. In pvp with the ability delay this can almost be a 5 second self stun. In PVE you can end up rolling right into a group of bad guys. If you rebind the cover in place hotkey to "F" and remove the roll to cover it's much better.

F to roll if a little green silhouette appears. Shift+F (default) to take cover where you're standing.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/05
Posts: 594

1/13/12 11:58:42 AM#31

Originally posted by lthompson94

Originally posted by dead2soon

I would disagree that removing auto attacts is an innovation. To me this is more like lack or polish or attention to detail.


I'm so sick of auto attack in MMOs... this was a great way to improve combat subtely without reinventing the wheel.


No other game in the history of games besides MMOs (maybe something I don't know about) have it.  It's not necessary.  Say what you want about 1,1,2,3,1,1 etc.  Every game ever does it.  Hell, FPS games are just click, click, click, right click, click click... and they are fun as hell.

 AOC had a bit of a twist to this as you could not do "rotations" , you had to actually pay attention to where you wanted to hit the opponent. And there were "Combos" But yes the general Skills are on a bar numberered 1 to x, where/how else are you supposed to do anyhting otherwise.

I'm glad they moved away from auto-attack.  And lack of polish?  In what way?  That implies they intended to do auto-attack but didn't make it in time.  Nonsense...

Will probably be added soon.



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Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/06
Posts: 31

1/13/12 12:03:11 PM#32

There is nothing remotely innovative about this game.  The points mentioned here are a reach, and more like marketing spin.  No auto-attack probably grew from when the combat lead realized the attack animation transition timing would become significantly more complicated with auto-attack in place.  And likely the decision was made to describe no auto-attack as a feature.

For all the resources Bioware had to throw at this product, the end result is more a shadow of what could have been.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 1914

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.

1/13/12 12:05:57 PM#33



Warhammer Online Correspondent

Joined: 4/19/04
Posts: 1193

" mean three philippino women."

1/13/12 12:13:23 PM#34

Originally posted by mmoguy43

 A common thing I see is people say if it's been done before then it isn't innovation- which is untrue.

An innovation is "a new method, idea, product."  New.  The first thing mentioned in this article is auto-attack...which the author admits was in older games.  That's not innovative.  That's resurrection at best, regurgitation at worst.


Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

1/13/12 12:29:11 PM#35
Originally posted by TookyG

Originally posted by mmoguy43

 A common thing I see is people say if it's been done before then it isn't innovation- which is untrue.

An innovation is "a new method, idea, product."  New.  The first thing mentioned in this article is auto-attack...which the author admits was in older games.  That's not innovative.  That's resurrection at best, regurgitation at worst.


A new method on an old idea is still  innovation. Check your own definition.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 460

1/13/12 12:30:48 PM#36

I don't think SWTOR has much innovation. I cant think of one feature that I stopped and though all mmos should have this. 

Getting a little tired of the hype machine trying to make this game something its not. 



Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1945

1/13/12 12:35:36 PM#37

Did anyone at actually read this before it was allowed to be posted?

You cant say "oh no auto attack is innovative because it hasnt been done in a while". No, no that is NOT innovative. By no definition is that innovative. Its not something that was done before with a little twist. Its simply been done before in the EXACT SAME WAY.

I suppose you could say crafting was "innovative" in the sense it swapped out one grind for one thats much, much worse imo. You can either spend alot of time out in the game world looking for rare mats. Or doing instances/raids for rare mats (most other MMORPG) or you can spend credits and TIME, loads and loads of TIME not doing anything while your companions go on a "mission" to get it for you. Personally I would much rather be out in the game world doing other things while gathering my crafting mats. You can argue that once you get more than a couple companions its no longer "sit in your useless spaceship while your companions craft" and while thats somewhat true its also true that crafting in TOR can be more time and cash consuming than many other MMORPGs.

Lastly the companions. SWTORS one true claim to innovation. Like it or hate it (I fall on the hate it side. I hate companion classes) its new. Ok not new but alot more involved than other MMORPG's which is, infact innovation unlike no auto attack.

Lightside/darkside points and social points could have been innovative but the complete lack of fleshing out the system to be usefull takes any form of innovation away. Sorry but putting a system in that has NO point (just tossing a social, light, or dark side requirement on a couple pieces of gear doesnt count) isnt innovative. Its a usless system to con people into thinking its new and neat.


Advanced Member

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 1684

Playing GW2, ToR, PoE
Played AoC, Aion, DDO, EQ2, CoH, Rift, TERA, WAR, WoW

1/13/12 12:47:20 PM#38
Originally posted by Eir_S

Good points.  I like the companions in SWTOR.  Everyone expects games to pile on innovation, but nice little touches can go a long way, even if the thrill wears off eventually.  Other, future games can only benefit from these new ideas.

I have really enjoyed companions as well. It has been nice to be able to run a flashpoint / heroic quest with a single friend or family member. The difficulty level goes up but you can still do it. Companions help as well in learning your role as tank and healer.  


Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/05
Posts: 257

I have a wandering mind, but that's ok, it brings back presents.

1/13/12 12:59:44 PM#39

Lack of auto attack is a throwback to the early days. It's also an increased cause of carpal tunnel. They decided to do it specifically. Honestly I don't understand why, but it's still a fun game. (If all you're using is auto attack, you're not fighting something worth your time.)

Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

1/13/12 1:34:44 PM#40

Jeez, you guys really are doing your best to squeeze blood from the stone and I understand, you do need to make a buck. I tip my hat to you. Being a pro writer for a review site is a bitch, I know.


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