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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The Magic Gone? Or Just Genre Too Popular

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27 posts found
  WellzyC

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/11
Posts: 546

Ceaseless

 
OP  1/11/12 5:03:08 PM#1
 
Yeah I played EQ, daoc, Asherons Call.. But I also had that feeling in Vanilla WoW and up to the first part of the Lich King. Considering that it wasn’t that long ago, I have to assume that mmos still have that power over me. Perhaps too many companies are trying to jump on the band wagon and are just Crapping out mmos to get a subscription fee.
 
 
Spending almost 200 bucks on new mmos in the past year and not playing them for more than 2 weeks. I really hope that  what I fear isn’t true.
 
 
I want a game that Makes me want to quit my job, lock my self into a closet with my computer and refuse to believe my real name isn’t my characters name.
 
Of course I would never admit that to anyone i actually know in real life.
 
Remember when you were playing an MMO and it was all you could think about at work? Looking at your watch itching to get home to defend your realm, or go on that awesome raid, or what ever it was. I really miss that feeling.
When you ACTULY had to decide to go to the irl party or goto the raid   =)  
 
 
Its been almost 2 years, I refuse to believe that the magic is gone. I really hope that its not that I’m losing interest in the genre and its more that the quality of the games are going down hill.
 
Here’s to 2012...  Hope it gets better!
 

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, Linear Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

1/11/12 5:08:37 PM#2

I think I read that the average age of an MMO player is 35ish. Why they continue to make games designed for 10 year olds is beyond me, execpt that maybe the focus is going to the east (asia) where there is a ton of people with cash and young

Correlation does not imply causation

  77lolmac77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 498

1/11/12 5:43:20 PM#3

same thing that happened to rap music:

Too much money got involved and instead of the focus being on the game it got focused on profits.

You can draw this comparison to a lot of things: Pro Sports, TV shows, POLITICS (yeah, thats a bold, italic, and underscore), Education system, Law enforcement (oh a $200 fine for not paying you guys $50 to reaffirm that I own this car thank you very much officer), certain tech products, etc

  Nerfmeh

Novice Member

Joined: 9/15/11
Posts: 36

1/11/12 6:36:10 PM#4

Same..no real MMO in 2 years or so ... only generic crap that interests u in 2 weeks max. Hope this year is a saviour for the genre  , personally getting hopes up for GW2.

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2541

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

1/11/12 6:43:06 PM#5

MMO companies are all about the lowest common denominator to the largest cash flow with minimal effort.

Don't expect to see that magic back anytime soon.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

1/11/12 6:44:48 PM#6

I fear you are displaying all the symptoms of growing up.

  Puremallace

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 1929

1/11/12 6:49:12 PM#7

We are living in the age of mediocirty where only mmo's based on popular IP's even stand a chance of winning and if not you are forced into the f2p model.

 

This genre is completely dead and the players are to blame. Only thing keeping me here right now is Rift. If that does eventually go down due to these f2p derps ruining the game, then I am done for good.

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

1/11/12 6:51:30 PM#8
Originally posted by WellzyC
 
Yeah I played EQ, daoc, Asherons Call.. But I also had that feeling in Vanilla WoW and up to the first part of the Lich King. Considering that it wasn’t that long ago, I have to assume that mmos still have that power over me. Perhaps too many companies are trying to jump on the band wagon and are just Crapping out mmos to get a subscription fee.
 
 
Spending almost 200 bucks on new mmos in the past year and not playing them for more than 2 weeks. I really hope that  what I fear isn’t true.
 
 
I want a game that Makes me want to quit my job, lock my self into a closet with my computer and refuse to believe my real name isn’t my characters name.
 
Of course I would never admit that to anyone i actually know in real life.
 
Remember when you were playing an MMO and it was all you could think about at work? Looking at your watch itching to get home to defend your realm, or go on that awesome raid, or what ever it was. I really miss that feeling.
When you ACTULY had to decide to go to the irl party or goto the raid   =)  
 
 
Its been almost 2 years, I refuse to believe that the magic is gone. I really hope that its not that I’m losing interest in the genre and its more that the quality of the games are going down hill.
 
Here’s to 2012...  Hope it gets better!
 

 

Greed

 

The moment publishers realize that building a world around MONEY, rather than around QUALITY, is a failing prospect is the moment the MMO genre returns to a place of glory. Until that time, Greed will continue to destroy many publisher names until they are no longer operating. SOE itself has been FORCED to return to its roots (Planetside & EQ) in order to keep itself from ruin. If they ruin those two franchises their company is a bust.

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  SuprGamerX

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/05/09
Posts: 538

1/11/12 7:04:10 PM#9

  Heh , the magic our favorite MMO's once had isn't quite gone , just in a big slumber at the moment waitting on the right Devs to actually grab it by the horns and actually create something worth investing time and effort into it.

  The kind of MMO where you can grab a bunch of buddies and go on a bot killing spree with no remorce what so ever.

  The Kind of MMO where you grab your same buddies and camp around the same cave for hours while having a blast blowing some monsters head off.

 GW2 , the more I look and read into what will be the game , the more it scares me. I wasn't really a fan of fully instanced games and this is where Gw2 is heading , I will try it for sure , but for how long , depends on how much content over graphics they've put into it.

 SWtor on the other hand , I've played for a few days along with some friends , and we just can't get the fact out of our minds that beside the blasters and light sabers and the whole jedi/sith mumbo jumbo that it's just a empty shell with no new "concept" to show over any other MMO previously released. Which btw I find hard to believe this game has received a Goty award. We'll see how well the servers will be populated by June/July.    Remember ROSE online anyone when once released? Everyone was freaking out on how much that game will kick ass , the first week the beginners area was flooding with people , took hours to complete the first quest of the game!  A few months later , my PC was making more noise with it's fans then the actual game due to empty servers.

  MMO's never lost their magic , it's the people that see things and invent stuff to over hype a game that isn't and wasn't meant to be hyped in the first place.   FF14 anyone ?    lawls , pathetic.

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

1/11/12 7:05:19 PM#10
I think its because the genre has become so stagnant(due to WoWs success),that every big MMO that has come out is déjà vu.We've been there,We've done that, after a decade of this it's just plain old already.The magic has been long spent and yet the industry continues to try and replicate what probably will never be replicated again with the current MMO formula.
  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 956

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

1/11/12 7:09:17 PM#11

The magic never left, people just forgot how to wield it. The people who created the genre didn't get into making these games for the money, they got into making these games because they were fans of MUD's, or pen and paper, which eventually lead them to a desire for having a graphical interface for these games. At the beginning, which occurs with most mediums, it was pure passion.

 

Now? We have games designed by committee, DLC hubs that are little more than the skeleton of what was once a full content title, carbon copy game design used throughout multiple genre's because it's more efficient, and requires less creativity. Money is what changed everything, and it fucks up just about every other artistic avenue you can think of. Take television, as an example. It's not to say that well made or artistic broadcasting never gets made anymore, but the hurdles to jump in order to defeat efficiency for creativity is a difficult obstacle to surpass when so many of the people making decisions for these companies are bottom lining profiteers. So what do we get? Reality TV, so many variations on game shows I'm astonished anyone can tell the difference between them.

 

And yes, popularity is part of the problem. Many people think that the whole idea of "dumbing down content" is absurd, but the fact of the matter is that people in large groups are moronic, though individually are capable of amazing brilliance. When making something for a mass of inviduals, a product you want to appease to as many people as humanly possible, you cater for the lowest common denominator. It's a simple truth that we can't deny anymore.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  orsonstfu

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/08
Posts: 205

1/11/12 7:11:59 PM#12
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

The magic never left, people just forgot how to wield it. The people who created the genre didn't get into making these games for the money, they got into making these games because they were fans of MUD's, or pen and paper, which eventually lead them to a desire for having a graphical interface for these games. At the beginning, which occurs with most mediums, it was pure passion.

 

Now? We have games designed by comittee, DLC hubs that are little more than the skeleton of what was once a full content title, carbon copy game design used throughout multiple genre's because it's more efficient, and requires less creativity. Money is what changed everything, and it fucks up just about every other artistic avenue you can think of. Take television, as an example. It's not to say that well made or artistic broadcasting never gets made anymore, but the hurdles to jump in order to surpass efficiency for creativity is a difficult obstacle to surpass when so many of the people making decisions for these companies are bottom lining profiteers. So what do we get? Reality TV, so many variations on game shows I'm astonished anyone can tell the difference between them.

 

And yes, popularity is part of the problem. Many people think that the whole idea of "dumbing down content" is absurd, but the fact of the matter is that people in large groups are moronic, though individually are capable of amazing brilliance. When making something for a mass of inviduals, a product you want to appease to as many people as humanly possible, you cater for the lowest common denominator. It's a simple truth that we can't deny anymore.

Sums it up quite nicely - I'd also like to add that modern developers tend to cater to only one group of people, instead of understanding that to have a full blow medieval world that feels alive you need ALL groups of people to be represented in your game.

Crafting, Roleplay, PvP, PvE, Exploration, Social, all these types of players are EQUALLY important.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17596

1/11/12 7:13:22 PM#13

genre is popular. Happens with everything that becomes popular.

  User Deleted
1/11/12 8:03:23 PM#14

In order to continually appeal to more players they need to remove a lot of unique mechanics and systems that made those older games great.

This isnt a genere that is appealing to a niche crowd of RPG players anymore, and the RPG in mmorpg is slowly  leaving the games to make way for generes that appeal to more people.

RPG players liked investing a lot of time to figure stuff out, build their characters, and enjoyed the journey.  Thats what RPG's were about. Getting into the character you were playing, getting involved in the world and story, making that character as you saw fit ect. Achieving a fully developed character (endgame i guess) was an achievement not every player could do. It meant something. Reaching that height meant you had extensive knwledge of the game and the world.  In fact endgame use to be nothing much more than hanging out on your character, socializing, getting pm's from people passing you by marveling at you and helping new players out.

Now its about stomping people below you laughing at them and ignoring everyone who isnt in your direct circle of friends.

Newer games are about action action action.  How can we get the most amount of people right to the "good part" as fast as possible?  Everyone must reach endgame before they get bored in the newer games, so reaching endgame isnt a big deal and doesnt feel special.  On top of that they make the trip the endgame boring, its something people try to avoid and little time is spent on the journey.  Theres no learning, you go to the website that tells you what class is best what rotation what gear where to get the gear ect.  Straying from what is written as the best is a way to get shunned as an idiot.

So yeah...the magic is gone.  There cant be magic like the older games because..well newer games make more money with bigger crowds and its about money not passion or making a quality game that appeals to RPG player who want to play online with eachother.  People want to play a game where theres 50 full servers full of people they will never interact with, to them that means the game is the best.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13756

1/11/12 8:12:15 PM#15

What a lot of people really want is for another MMORPG to be the first one they've played, or at least one of the first few.  That is often what makes them remembered so fondly, more so than any particular game mechanics.

  acidblood

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 249

1/11/12 9:18:23 PM#16

While I don't believe the magic is gone completely, it will certainly take more than a standard MMO to bring it back for no other reason than we all (those burnt on recent MMOs) know how an MMO 'works'.

Think back your first MMO, be it EQ, WoW, Rift or anything inbetween... it was something new, it was exciting, you didn't know the rules so you spent time exploring them and testing them, you went off the beaten path hoping to find some rare treasure, you explored that cave for no other reason than it was there, and you had fun doing it, effeciency be damed. Now think of pretty much any MMO you played after that (especially recent ones), you know the rules, you know to talk to they guy with the ! to get the quest, you know that quest gives you the exp and loot you need to advance as quickly as possible, and you know there is no point smelling the roses as anything you find / do at low level is going to be replaced or can be soloed later, and you know that the 'real fun' starts once you hit the level cap.

Granted it doesn't help that modern MMOs (i.e. Rift) are designed with these mechanics in mind. Camparing Rift to Vanilla WoW for example, you pretty much can't explore, as there just isn't anything there, even leveling an alt your stuck on the same path, where as at least in VWoW there where enough zones that you could pick and choose; not all of them as fleshed out as Rifts' zones, but that wasn't nessecarilly a bad thing etiher, as it gave you a sense of the path less taken. The 'modern' internet a whole doesn't help either, with item databases and such telling you where all the best loot is, what build you should be using, etc. Even less directly related 'modern' web sites hurt MMOs; I mean why login to an MMO to be social when you can just fire up facebook, especially when getting a group in an MMO is as simple as clicking a button.

Can all the problems be fixed, can the magic be brought back? Probably, at least for the most part. Will it happen any time soon? No idea. Games like Guild Wars 2, The Secret World and even Wildstar look promissing, but then so did Warhammer Online, Age of Conan and Rift.

 

  Rasputin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/03
Posts: 618

1/11/12 9:51:53 PM#17
Originally posted by Zekiah

MMO companies are all about the lowest common denominator to the largest cash flow with minimal effort.

Don't expect to see that magic back anytime soon.

You just described capitalism. And that is the root of the problem.

  Jayremy

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/10
Posts: 27

1/14/12 2:07:05 AM#18

I call if lack of game developer creativity. Making a competitive game of today's age now requires good money since WoW. Usually to get that type of money you need funds, investments, all the sorts typical to that of um... a publisher. Look at SWTOR, EA put their dollar on that because its something done over that works, these businessmen only like to do what works. They couldn't care less for game quality, as many game devs and programmers of today think the field of MMOs now are just cash grabs, to reach early retirement, there is no passion to it anymore.

 

Same happened to Blizzard, they saw all the cash, their got all star-eyed and that passion they once had when it was new, was gone. I mean stuff like "hey you found a really in depth exploit, you're hired as a QA tester" or " hey your posts on the forums were about warrior mechanics were great and accurate, you're a designer now", this stuff did happen when the company really cared and babied their product.

 

People aren't willing to take the risks, many just lack creativity too, not all people with resumes make the best game designers imo, its normal people with BIG passions and understanding for making a great game, no major degree or 7+ years in the industry needed. A lot of devs you see just hop company to company, like seeing the same hollywood actors in many movies, these people work on many titles due to a resume, so you get the works coming from the same minds. We need people to be innovative and push boundaries and are not too scared to introduce something new to gamers as well as the creativity to dream up the worlds, the gameplay, the tech and mechanics.

 

I miss games like Asheron's Call, I could use less of the griefing (or use more of anti-griefing measures) into today's games and more convenience with QoL improvements, but I miss the old school worlds. I miss the sand box worlds, and gameplay that isn't a copy paste feature of EQ and since (which is also WoW). My interest isn't gone because I am here hounding forums following the latest action RPGs and mainly MMOs, never being satisfied. We really haven't had good games out, yes we are burnt out a bit, but that is because existing games either have tech and designed in a way that is too old, like Asheron's Call or gameplay itself hasn't evolved in any dynamic way in years (like WoW).

Personally I really do feel like I could design better games than today's releases, I have even took hours of my time on the side writing premises for story and gameplay designs and multiple different ideas as placeholders for future work. I pretty much hit the ceiling like 2 years ago and wanting to design my own games due to my lack of being impressed from games of today, mainly int he MMO genre. If you ask me anyways I feel MOs and MMOs are the future of biggest success games.

Details can always change it's the idea that counts.

  User Deleted
1/14/12 3:38:46 AM#19

The magic is gone and personally I hate it the genre is quickly becoming something it was never designed to be  "mainstream" .

I want a game with deep character development, seamless world, dangerous and long travels and focus on grouping so flamers and people with bad behaviour won't have a place if they don't adjust.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3169

1/14/12 10:28:37 AM#20
Originally posted by Quizzical

What a lot of people really want is for another MMORPG to be the first one they've played, or at least one of the first few.  That is often what makes them remembered so fondly, more so than any particular game mechanics.

I see this comment often on these boards, and it is complete nonsense.

 

For that theory to be true, it would also have to apply to single-player games. I fondly remember games like Ultima, System Shock, Wing Commander, Freelancer and Civilization (all from ancient gaming history). At the time that they launched, I was totally blown away by their gameplay, played them to death and loved them immensely.

 

But that didn't mean that I couldn't equally be "blown away" by PC games that were released in later years. There have been quite a few titles since then that I have loved and enjoyed just as much as those early classics. Last year we had Deus EX and Skyrim, both excellent games that I played just as intensely as those PC games from 15+ years ago.

 

So why should MMO's be any different ?

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