Originally posted by obii

Actually I like the idea that mmos are profitable with box sales and a few months of game play.

I think SWTOR will make a profit .. not an insane one, but profit.

It seems to have a nice story and I am sure people who cancelled will check it out when the next expansion launches with new stories.

   You want to change the genre in a negative way. A mmorpg is supposed to be long term immersive. Part of what gets me irked is that so many players of say FPS genre games have crossed over to mmorpgs, now that isn't a bad thing. The bad thing is that they bring the mind set of what you want from a FPS genre game over to a  online multi-player role-playing game world. Sadly the game developers have listened and the genre isn't what it could be or even what it used to be even. 

  These type of games are meant to be played for years, not a couple months before you move on ot the next quick fun distraction. I keep hoping that game developers will once again remember what the genre is about and stop catering to players who aren't invested in this genre of game. Because these players do not have any invested interest in the genre, they are looking for MOBA style or FPS style games. Nothing wrong with those genre of games I might add for those who think I am bashing those game genres, I think they have their place as well and are fun. I just would love to see the mmorpg genre to return more to what it used to be.

I couldn't agree more with the last three posts.  TOR will make a profit, probably a big one, and quickly.  I don't buy the 300 million figure at all.  Ask yourself what the money was spent on if other similar (or better) MMOs can be produced for a sixth of that amount.  EA did not get to the position they are in by wasting money.

I don't fault them for making a lot of money quickly...I would do the same if I was their CEO.  They're brilliant, good for their investers, and good for the economy. ... And for those who like the games they make, play on, and have a blast. 

My only issue is that I think they misrepresent the product they are putting out, and get a lot of people who were hoping for something else to buy their product.  Just like DA2 was bought by a lot of folks hoping for a true sequel to DAO, a lot of people are buying TOR believing that they are getting a well polished traditional MMO.  In the case of TOR, the immersive, persistent world many hoped for just isn't there.  And whereas when other companies burn a customer once or twice, they take the reputation hit for it...EA lets high reputation surrogates (in this case, Bioware) take the reputation hit.  In a few years, Bioware games won't be very highly thought of any more, but EA will keep coming out smelling like a rose.

Originally posted by teakbois

[Mod Edit]

EA/Bioware's business model looks to be pretty lose to Trions, add content and fix shit on a good schedule.  Patch 1.1 will be out before the game's one month anniversary with fixes to many problem issues, a whole new instance, and 4 new raid bosses.

Unfortunately I wish this was true, but Bioware is no Trion when it comes to hotfixing issues. They act like NCSoft when it comes to class balance even with over whelming evidence. I'll predict if TOR changes their business model it forces Rift and possible WoW to change also.

---

Are you implying SWG had 5000 players when it announced to be shut down? Because what I seen, for example from http://www.mmodata.net/, shows around 50.000 subs which is probably more than what WAR has now with only two-three servers left.

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<50k subs in Q3 2009... 2 years ago. There were other estimates up after that from various sites who track such things, but none with real good transparency in how they track and how sony tracks station pass.

That being said... if you extrapolated out the current trend the chart shows it would likely end up in the <10k range somewhere when it was finally shutdown.

*shrug* It was a ghost town the last few times i was on.

Originally posted by teakbois

[Mod Edit]

EA/Bioware's business model looks to be pretty lose to Trions, add content and fix shit on a good schedule.  Patch 1.1 will be out before the game's one month anniversary with fixes to many problem issues, a whole new instance, and 4 new raid bosses.

Comparing EA/BW with Trion at this stage of the products lifecycle I would say that Trion where streets ahead. Leaving aside the respective games I was pretty impressed with Trions developer productivity, customer support and general running of things. I am not with BW. To be honest they seem more Funcom that Trion to me.

As to the OP, I am sure they all sat in meetings thinking how much they could make if they managed to attract X,Y or Z subs but at the end of the day they must have known that they had it covered on pre-orders.

I don't think they will make much with the heavy licsence fees that they are purported to have signed up to, that's a big difference to Trion.

Originally posted by obii

Actually I like the idea that mmos are profitable with box sales and a few months of game play.

I think SWTOR will make a profit .. not an insane one, but profit.

It seems to have a nice story and I am sure people who cancelled will check it out when the next expansion launches with new stories.

Don't be so certain. Many people are losing patience with the game a lot sooner than the level cap.

I like the story and I know there is a lot of it there I will never get to experience because the rest of the game loses it's fun factor before you even hit level 30. I've purchases expansions for games that have only held me as a subscriber for a few months. I have never bought an expansion for an MMO that couldn't keep me beyond the first month, no matter how much hype surrounds the expansion.

Originally posted by rguilbert

I couldn't agree more with the last three posts.  TOR will make a profit, probably a big one, and quickly.  I don't buy the 300 million figure at all.  Ask yourself what the money was spent on if other similar (or better) MMOs can be produced for a sixth of that amount.  EA did not get to the position they are in by wasting money.

 

I don't fault them for making a lot of money quickly...I would do the same if I was their CEO.  They're brilliant, good for their investers, and good for the economy. ... And for those who like the games they make, play on, and have a blast. 

 

My only issue is that I think they misrepresent the product they are putting out, and get a lot of people who were hoping for something else to buy their product.  Just like DA2 was bought by a lot of folks hoping for a true sequel to DAO, a lot of people are buying TOR believing that they are getting a well polished traditional MMO.  In the case of TOR, the immersive, persistent world many hoped for just isn't there.  And whereas when other companies burn a customer once or twice, they take the reputation hit for it...EA lets high reputation surrogates (in this case, Bioware) take the reputation hit.  In a few years, Bioware games won't be very highly thought of any more, but EA will keep coming out smelling like a rose.

A company can NOT successfully sell through a million plus boxes of an MMORPG if they were ever to be honest that the game doesn't have legs and most people will only get a month or two of play before quiting.

Maximize initial profits, then cut and run, is the strategy of a failed MMORPG. Fail that way more than once and people will be a lot less likely to buy from you again.

The sad thing is that there is very clearly the potential for another $Billion+ subscription revenue MMORPG. EA had the advantage of deep pockets and a great i.p. and they still blew it due to corporate corner cutting and short sightedness. It's sad, espescially for Star Wars fans, as well as MMO fans waiting for the next game the masses will want to play for years, rather than weeks!

EA/Bioware better not screw up Mass Effect 3, or I'll be writing them off entirely.

Altough the story is the BIG factor why SWTOR is fun i dont think it justified a subscription of 15 euro a month.

I do have alot of fun and made several alts of classes but the way some things work in SWTOR feels to ancient and simple.

In this age and time people dont have the time nor patience to spam /1 for 30 min anymore, iam hinting on doing flashpoints/heroic quests.

The textures on characters are showing something alot of people dont like. even with a beast of a computer it loks horrible.

Alot of people already raced trough all contend or are full PvP gear within 1 month, and so alot of people/quit untill the next round of contend is released.

Some servers have horrible faction balance or are already becoming ghostowns.

What Bioware delivers the next weeks in terms of fixes and contend is crucial for the playerbase and when a server needs migration they better to this real fast or people /quit before the next sub need to be paid.

I dig SWTOR as a very sceptical and critical player, but i dont know for how long :)

When counting all the + and - i still see a + but barely a +

1 million mark is passed in release but i do not think they will grow much bigger then that.

Reasons are given by many people already and lets now forget the following -

Diablo 3

GW2

Archage

WoW - MoP

Its a dog eat dog world and 2012 is a very good year for any mmo / multiplayer :)

Originally posted by Mothanos

Altough the story is the BIG factor why SWTOR is fun i dont think it justified a subscription of 15 euro a month.

I do have alot of fun and made several alts of classes but the way some things work in SWTOR feels to ancient and simple.

 

In this age and time people dont have the time nor patience to spam /1 for 30 min anymore, iam hinting on doing flashpoints/heroic quests.

The textures on characters are showing something alot of people dont like. even with a beast of a computer it loks horrible.

Alot of people already raced trough all contend or are full PvP gear within 1 month, and so alot of people/quit untill the next round of contend is released.

Some servers have horrible faction balance or are already becoming ghostowns.

 

 

What Bioware delivers the next weeks in terms of fixes and contend is crucial for the playerbase and when a server needs migration they better to this real fast or people /quit before the next sub need to be paid.

I dig SWTOR as a very sceptical and critical player, but i dont know for how long :)

When counting all the + and - i still see a + but barely a +

 

1 million mark is passed in release but i do not think they will grow much bigger then that.

Reasons are given by many people already and lets now forget the following -

 

Diablo 3

GW2

Archage

WoW - MoP

 

Its a dog eat dog world and 2012 is a very good year for any mmo / multiplayer :)

Actually the esitmate is between 1 to 2 million till EA releases official numbers. Even if it was 4 million someone would come up and say 'i don't see it growing any bigger than that'. People say same things about WOW. '10 million? i don't see it growing bigger than that'.

*rolls eyes'. people talk as if it is such a daily routine for MMOS to garner such numbers on release  sales and beyond.

Originally posted by rguilbert

The exodus, if it hasn't already begun, will start soon. Unfortunately though, we can't expect the developers to learn their lesson and make a better product next time.

 

The bean counters at EA are smarter than people give them credit for. Most seem to think that since they spent so much to make the game, two things would be true: 1) they need it to succeed/be popular with the players, and 2) it will be incredibly good.

 

Neither are true. The exact same thing that happened with DA2 is happening again. They cut costs by underfunding the actual production of the game (knowing people will still buy it due to the expensive licence, the partnership with a respected name-Bioware, the massive advertising, and the friendly/coerced/bought "professional reviewers").

 

EA will make a profit quickly through large full price initial sales plus the residual trickling in of money as the game dies off. User reviews will be less glowing, but will come out too late to change any of this (like with DA2). Eventually, when the game dies, people will consider it a failure-but EA will be laughing all the way to the bank. The only losers will be the players and Bioware's reputation. Later EA will buy another respected developer and fool us all again.

 

 

 

 

edit added breaks to eliminate the WOT

True They dont fool the players but the companies as well.After da2 and swtor im not thinking buying any other bioware products again.

If they ever make swtor more open more alive and add some sandbox things in it then i will think about it.Till then they have to learn not to release fails.The players are bored of these and they started open their eyes at  last.

For me swtor was the last mmo i was counting on.Now i dont believe there will be any other mmo that will deliver.Lets hope titan but this one is decades away.

Originally posted by rguilbert

"The exodus, if it hasn't already begun, will start soon. "

 

Stopped reading there.

Not rocket science with new game launches. Crowd rushes in - then population settles. Any new game needs around 3 months minimum (probably nearer 6) before the level of success can be realistically assessed

Originally posted by fiontar

EA/Bioware better not screw up Mass Effect 3, or I'll be writing them off entirely.

I wouldnt get my hopes up for ME3 from what i read its a conclusion to the game, i found ME2 very short personally i dont think ME3 will be much different. They clearly showed with DA2 they didint care much about what players want simply because people are sheep and buy them anyway. As far as im concerned im waiting for reviews before i buy it but then again theres so many sellouts nowadays.

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by rguilbert

I couldn't agree more with the last three posts.  TOR will make a profit, probably a big one, and quickly.  I don't buy the 300 million figure at all.  Ask yourself what the money was spent on if other similar (or better) MMOs can be produced for a sixth of that amount.  EA did not get to the position they are in by wasting money.

 

I don't fault them for making a lot of money quickly...I would do the same if I was their CEO.  They're brilliant, good for their investers, and good for the economy. ... And for those who like the games they make, play on, and have a blast. 

 

My only issue is that I think they misrepresent the product they are putting out, and get a lot of people who were hoping for something else to buy their product.  Just like DA2 was bought by a lot of folks hoping for a true sequel to DAO, a lot of people are buying TOR believing that they are getting a well polished traditional MMO.  In the case of TOR, the immersive, persistent world many hoped for just isn't there.  And whereas when other companies burn a customer once or twice, they take the reputation hit for it...EA lets high reputation surrogates (in this case, Bioware) take the reputation hit.  In a few years, Bioware games won't be very highly thought of any more, but EA will keep coming out smelling like a rose.

A company can NOT successfully sell through a million plus boxes of an MMORPG if they were ever to be honest that the game doesn't have legs and most people will only get a month or two of play before quiting.

Maximize initial profits, then cut and run, is the strategy of a failed MMORPG. Fail that way more than once and people will be a lot less likely to buy from you again.

The sad thing is that there is very clearly the potential for another $Billion+ subscription revenue MMORPG. EA had the advantage of deep pockets and a great i.p. and they still blew it due to corporate corner cutting and short sightedness. It's sad, espescially for Star Wars fans, as well as MMO fans waiting for the next game the masses will want to play for years, rather than weeks!

EA/Bioware better not screw up Mass Effect 3, or I'll be writing them off entirely.

I am sure they must be rolling in bed through sleepless nights.

Why can't you people just enjoy the game for what it is? I swear these days no matter what game that comes out, people shoot it down because it appears that it does not live upto your every little expectation. If your such professionals in the field of MMO's, why don't you go make one and show us all how its done alright? Ive worked in development, I know the time and care it takes to make a living breathing world, and let me tell you, its not as easy as you think. You have alot of people with alot of ideas, and sometimes those people come togeather to play like a pug in Huttball, sloppy, messy, and don't score. Then you have folks that work togeather, faceroll people, and get their 6 points (WoW did this.). My point is for every game feature YOU enjoy, there are a million other people that might hate that, and these days, if you were to make a complex sandbox with a gigantic world fit for exploring, a difficult yet rewarding crafting system, engaging pvp across the land ect, you would only end up with about 300k or less in subscribers. People are sheep ok? They want to be lead by the hand, and shown where the fun is. (Why do you think WoW did so well? ) Everyone that made games the way I described tried to "BECOME" WoW (and still do) because of the sheer numbers of players and revenue they brought in. Folks just don't want to work in a video game anymore, they wanna get off work, grab a cold drink, faceroll some nubs for a few hours in a quickly made pvp scenario (warzone) then log off. Nobody wants to run around for several hours looking for some helpless nub who just so happens to be wandering all alone so they can get their fix.ATM this is where MMO's are, and its going to stay that way so long as the mighty dollar dictates what is and what is not popular, and comming on here and trying to inspire people to hate something cause you do is not working as intended, sorry.And for those of you that don't have a job, and burn through content in a week's time because you don't sleep, GET A LIFE!! Go get a girlfriend or boyfriend, and do something besides sitting in front of your computer all day eating hot pockets and slurping on energy drinks...

Originally posted by Marius6870

"... have a job, and burn through content in a week's time because you don't sleep, GET A LIFE!! Go get a girlfriend or boyfriend, and do something besides sitting in front of your computer all day eating hot pockets and slurping on energy drinks..."

Ad hominem - the internet tough guy's friend.

Originally posted by kishe

EA is strange company by the fact that it always lands on its feet...if SWTOR is a loss, they'll just release NHL2012.5 with lightly modified facial textures and they'll be covered.

 

Worst that can happen to Bioware is that EA will whore out the name untill word Bioware means nothing to people and then they'll just gut Bioware as a studio and blend it to what ever big name studio they purchase next.

 

 

This has already started:

Exhibit A:  New C&C game being developed by "Bioware/Victory Games."  I'm guessing that EA decided to help their troubled Victory Games studio by having the RTS experts at Bioware give them some advice (yeah right).

Exhibit B:  EA recently acquired the social game company "KlickNation" and renamed it to be "Bioware Sacramento" immediately after its acquisition.  In fact, there are now eight (EIGHT!) studios currently under the Bioware name.

I am about pretty certain that Bioware, as we all lovingly remember it, will be dead in about 5 years.  EA fully intends to "leverage" the brandname by putting out crappy products under it until the brand name Bioware doesn't mean anything anymore.