It did not cost 300million why you think a mediocre game cost 300million lol. Well not in million years this game costed 300million maybe max 80 million but seems even unreal.

And i have the feeling your EA or Bioware employee whos payed to come here and beg players to keep there sub hehe.

Originally posted by Mephster

The mmo genre will never get better if people support rehashed ideas since Everquest. We're supposed to be moving forward not backward.

This.  The fact that they spent so much money making a game that is actually worse in some ways than the failed ones that came before it has me wishing them the worst.   You guys keep buying this crap, you'll keep getting it.   You want to see something new, then make this the most expensive burn a developer has felt to send a resounding message to others that this formula has been over-milked.

I don't expect that to happen though because it's Star Wars.   Remove that from the equation, and rename it Galaxy Online or something, and this game would be seen for the mediocre game it is and it would be the bargain bin in record time.

Originally posted by forest-nl

And i have the feeling your EA or Bioware employee whos payed to come here and beg players to keep there sub hehe.

That's what bugs me the most about this topic, and I don't even feel that this person is employed by Bioware. It's probably just a fan who believes he has a valid argument, though it's absolutely infuriating to me. Like you said, and the poster above you, why would anyone pay to sub to a game which is so mediocre in design when there's already so much available that, most of us, are probably established members of already? More over, why would anyone subscribe to a game they feel is subpar? To keep EA happy and providing content?

It's not our job to protect the companies we buy products from. It's their job to provide something we can justify spending money on, and if they can't do that, they deserve the result. It's like saying we should support sloppy work in hopes that the individual providing it will some day change his tune. Have we learned nothing about EA/Bioware? Dragon Age 2, anyone?

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by xfur24

It may sound shallow, but here's something to think about.

 

Companies that splurge on mega-marketing teams are just insecure about their product. Let's face it, the internet is filled with so many MMO-NEWS kinda websites and user reviews/gameplay videos are easily accessible. Over-hyping usually ends up with the product being very different from what was being marketed. Look at 2011, a year of over-hyping and stuff like that.. it's pretty sad that the MMO industry turned out like this.

Now that you mention it, rememer this?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-23-if-trailers-told-the-truth-article?page=2

 

second video down...I couldnt help but laugh.

First I was like...  and then I was like

Nice find

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by xfur24

It may sound shallow, but here's something to think about.

 

Companies that splurge on mega-marketing teams are just insecure about their product. Let's face it, the internet is filled with so many MMO-NEWS kinda websites and user reviews/gameplay videos are easily accessible. Over-hyping usually ends up with the product being very different from what was being marketed. Look at 2011, a year of over-hyping and stuff like that.. it's pretty sad that the MMO industry turned out like this.

Now that you mention it, rememer this?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-23-if-trailers-told-the-truth-article?page=2

 

second video down...I couldnt help but laugh.

First I was like...  and then I was like

Nice find

LOL that was hillarious and honestly it's almost exactly what I imagined the developers would be like back at the studios

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by xfur24

It may sound shallow, but here's something to think about.

 

Companies that splurge on mega-marketing teams are just insecure about their product. Let's face it, the internet is filled with so many MMO-NEWS kinda websites and user reviews/gameplay videos are easily accessible. Over-hyping usually ends up with the product being very different from what was being marketed. Look at 2011, a year of over-hyping and stuff like that.. it's pretty sad that the MMO industry turned out like this.

Now that you mention it, rememer this?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-23-if-trailers-told-the-truth-article?page=2

 

second video down...I couldnt help but laugh.

First I was like...  and then I was like

Nice find

LOL that was hillarious and honestly it's almost exactly what I imagined the developers would be like back at the studios

Second video is amazing!

So true...

Originally posted by cagan

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Originally posted by Bunks

Originally posted by xfur24

It may sound shallow, but here's something to think about.

 

Companies that splurge on mega-marketing teams are just insecure about their product. Let's face it, the internet is filled with so many MMO-NEWS kinda websites and user reviews/gameplay videos are easily accessible. Over-hyping usually ends up with the product being very different from what was being marketed. Look at 2011, a year of over-hyping and stuff like that.. it's pretty sad that the MMO industry turned out like this.

Now that you mention it, rememer this?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-23-if-trailers-told-the-truth-article?page=2

 

second video down...I couldnt help but laugh.

First I was like...  and then I was like

Nice find

LOL that was hillarious and honestly it's almost exactly what I imagined the developers would be like back at the studios

Second video is amazing!

So true...

I know...right.   It probably was just like that.  

I was really shocked at how poorly this game was made, But what i find even more shocking is the sheer amount of people who think this is a good quality game thats worth a monthly fee let alone the box price !

If things carry on this way the mmo genre is going die because no one is going to invest in this garbage any more becuase this crap they keep trying shovel down our throats. 

Problem is that developers & publishers seem to produce games that have more and more in common with single player / ordinary multiplayer games than with long-term games.

Many players just buy your average EQ / WoW clone mmoprg level character till max level ,then run instances over and over for couple weeks and he / she then "finishes the game" and stop playing.  Some stay a bit longer to level few alts.

Miniority stay for long-term.

Until mmorpg's devs will start to create games that create COMMUNITIES and make players BUILD something and get attached to it , then we will see same scenario over and over.

Flood of players pre-ordering and buying boxes short after premiere and then massive drop.

World of Warcraft was succesful with it's model with millions of long-term players because it was first really mainstream mmorpg that 90% of playerbase played at first mmo ever. ( Second thing is that levelling in WoW took ~6 months at beggining and not 2 weeks like it does atm so players had fun and groupped at low and mid levels as well on same server)

WoW-clone in it's core "create character get on rail-road and run instances over and over at max level" gathering millions of players committed for long years will just NOT happen again.

If devs want long-term playerbase they have to create diffrent kind of mmorpg. Simple as that.  Propably will have to aim for smaller playerbase as well.

It will be either big playerbase at beggining but shrinking in size fast OR small-medium sized at beggining but long-term and loyal with some slow growth potential.

Just fanatical millions-sized commited for years playerbase will NOT happen in mmorpg's again.

In mmofps or mmo-something or just whole diffrent genres? Maybe ,maybe not. 

Not in mmrprg's - at least not in WoW-cloned ones (that includes even slightly diffrent yet similar mmorpg's like WoW / War /Swtor / etc)

Some companies think F2P will cure this problem as well. Wrong.  Not all mmos will be as succesful as f.e. DDO with their transition to freemium.

Most will gather big initial audience but it will wither fast as well. It already starts to happening. They lose players faster than first p2p->f2p games.

Simply becasuse problem does not lie in business model, at least not core of the problem.

I am one of these players who already quit on SWTOR. Actually I played every single mmo that ever came out in NA, and I have never quit on a game before at least the second month. I even stayed with Vanguard, AoC and WAR beyond the first month, and these game releases were a disaster.

The reason for me leaving the game is that it is getting painful for me just to log on. The storyline is amazing, but that is it. The game mechanics are just not there. PvP really sucks and the game is just not fun, it's just not about content.

Another thing is that this is a product, EA is one of the richest gaming companies out there, their EA sports IP make them so much money it's ridiculous. It is not up to me as a consumer to pay for an unready product. They need to make a ready product, launch it and make me purchase a finished product, if not the customer gets pissed.

I got caught in the CE scam, I call it a scam for several reasons, the ingame items are just plain stupid, nothing noticeable. The figurine has not value whatsoever, I took it to a collector and asked him if this would ever take any value with time, he said no, I asked him how much he would estimate it at, he said tops $20. So I paid $150 for nothing. Now I am more pissed at myself for falling into it, but you know in life we make mistakes, and this is one of them.

Actually the only reason I would come back to SWTOR is if they completely change their game mechanics and the game basics and of course everything that has to do with PvP.

Peace

Originally posted by forest-nl

It did not cost 300million why you think a mediocre game cost 300million lol. Well not in million years this game costed 300million maybe max 80 million but seems even unreal.

And i have the feeling your EA or Bioware employee whos payed to come here and beg players to keep there sub hehe.

Having worked in the industry over ten years now, TOR certainly feels like a 300M game.  It's way more than what you could feasibly accomplish with 80M.

Whether you get all grognardy about the game being a Themepark's Themepark is another matter, but clearly for the overwhelming number of players I talk to ingame they're totally satisfied with it (and I hear a ton of "this is the best MMORPG ever" in chat, followed by agreeing players.)

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by forest-nl

It did not cost 300million why you think a mediocre game cost 300million lol. Well not in million years this game costed 300million maybe max 80 million but seems even unreal.

And i have the feeling your EA or Bioware employee whos payed to come here and beg players to keep there sub hehe.

Having worked in the industry over ten years now, TOR certainly feels like a 300M game.  It's way more than what you could feasibly accomplish with 80M.

Whether you get all grognardy about the game being a Themepark's Themepark is another matter, but clearly for the overwhelming number of players I talk to ingame they're totally satisfied with it (and I hear a ton of "this is the best MMORPG ever" in chat, followed by agreeing players.)

I would guess They spent the nearly all the budget getting blur studios to make those cgi movie's for the game, Its the only thing about the entire game that has a any profesional production value, The game itself  is average and below average in regards to everything outside the story, Anyone in my class could make more lively world(i meant world zone planet thingy) in a month or even some fecking imaginative race models (animator btw). 

Originally posted by Geriden

 

I would guess They spent the nearly all the budget getting blur studios to make those cgi movie's for the game, Its the only thing about the entire game that has a any profesional production value, The game itself  is average and below average in regards to everything outside the story, Anyone in my class could make more lively world(i meant world zone planet thingy) in a month or even some fecking imaginative race models (animator btw). 

Blur movies, voiceacting, all the systems and mechanics in the game actually feeling 90% as polished as WOW (whereas typical MMORPGs are a jumbled mess with terrible controls), huge expansive areas (tons of art), and if they're smart some awesome tools to fast track adding new content to the game.

The models not being ultra-cutting-edge graphics is a very smart business decision (ask AO and AoC how their launches went when they tried to dramatically up the graphics bar in an MMORPG, and nobody could run it.)  Personally I feel the art style they went with for ToR was very smartly made.

Originally posted by BigBadWolfe

Okay so I'm hearing a lot of reports from players saying that they like TOR but they don't want to stay subbed to it, or that they are going to cancel and resub back to the game when they've added more content/fixed issues.

DON'T DO THAT.

EA/Bioware spent a lot of money on SW:TOR, I'm hearing estimates around $300 million or so, that's the most money a company has ever tossed at the MMO industry.  You WANT them to toss money at us.  However in order to cover such a big investment, Bioware needs an evern bigger return, and that's where the MMO community comes in.  Unlike other gaming industries, MMOs need to establish a relationship with the playerbase to keep making money, and lately that relationship as soured. A lot of developers think the MMO community has turned into a bunch of loud-mouth, lazy, fickle bunch of spoiled brats.

We need to change our ways and have more realistic expectations of new MMOs if the industry is going to survive. 

1.) We need to understand that a game that just launched is simply not going to have as much end-game content as a game that's been out for over a 1-6years.

2.) We need to understand that if we want new content, we have to pay for it.  If you like the game but want more content, unsubbing isn't going to help, but only make things worse.

3.) We really need to stop comparing everything to WoW.  I think this is self-explanitory.

4.) We really need to stop wishing every MMO that's not your kind of MMO will fail.  Just because I might not like that style of MMO doesn't mean that it should fail, and nobody be allowed to play it.

I'm not a SW:TOR fanboy, I'm just concerned what will happen to the industry if a huge financial investment like TOR can't buy its way into the market.  I can imagine that it's failure will create another black hole, similiar to Warhammer, where the industry was stuck in the dark ages of bad mmos for another 2-3 years.  Or even worse, MMOs turn out to be an unprofitable fad and they pull the plug like they did with the Guitar Hero type games.

So in conclusion if you do like Star Wars: The Old Republc, give them your money.  TOR may not be the best game in the market, or any good at all, but it's definitely super expensive, and it's new, and EA gets really mad if they don't get paid.  We want to keep the relationship between MMO companies and communities good, or they might pull out and go make cheap browser games or something.

I changed my ways by being open minded and actually trying out games.

Read my history if you deem it so but I am already giving some faith after my experiences, not talking about SWTOR either.

However I don't think SWTOR sucks, I do think it sucks they left things out really just one big issue that's apparent out of the game that would have atleast make me consider playing it and subbing for a little bit.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Geriden

 

I would guess They spent the nearly all the budget getting blur studios to make those cgi movie's for the game, Its the only thing about the entire game that has a any profesional production value, The game itself  is average and below average in regards to everything outside the story, Anyone in my class could make more lively world(i meant world zone planet thingy) in a month or even some fecking imaginative race models (animator btw). 

Blur movies, voiceacting, all the systems and mechanics in the game actually feeling 90% as polished as WOW (whereas typical MMORPGs are a jumbled mess with terrible controls), huge expansive areas (tons of art), and if they're smart some awesome tools to fast track adding new content to the game.

The models not being ultra-cutting-edge graphics is a very smart business decision (ask AO and AoC how their launches went when they tried to dramatically up the graphics bar in an MMORPG, and nobody could run it.)  Personally I feel the art style they went with for ToR was very smartly made.

I agree about the art more I play more I have gotten used to the style. Also if you got a good gaming rig with nvidia cards do yourself a favor and get nvidia inspector and run the game with 8xS AA and 2x SGAA game looks a million times better imho and its still performs well(almost consistant 60 fps) on my intell 2600k, 560 ti sli setup.

My main beef with the game is how lazy if feels they went with the talent trees. I really dislike how little customization they provide to the limited number of classes and the fact you get very very few new abilities from the talent trees as most are just increase skill by x amount type talents. Also combat animations could use some work and make them blend better. For example Jedi Knights master strike is just it all over the place and hardly ever even hits the target(animation wise).

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by forest-nl

It did not cost 300million why you think a mediocre game cost 300million lol. Well not in million years this game costed 300million maybe max 80 million but seems even unreal.

And i have the feeling your EA or Bioware employee whos payed to come here and beg players to keep there sub hehe.

Having worked in the industry over ten years now, TOR certainly feels like a 300M game.  It's way more than what you could feasibly accomplish with 80M.

Whether you get all grognardy about the game being a Themepark's Themepark is another matter, but clearly for the overwhelming number of players I talk to ingame they're totally satisfied with it (and I hear a ton of "this is the best MMORPG ever" in chat, followed by agreeing players.)

I'm sorry, but when GW2 comes out i would love to know thier price tag so we can compare. They had Lucas Arts and EA money, surely they could have done MUCH much better then the sorry excuse for a game outside of the movies and the VO's they put in! That's usually what everyone's refering to when they say it feels like a crappier game because they DIDN'T take the time to flesh out the entire game they just threw something at the SW fanbois to get them to be quiet and it DOES show in their game. Seriously compare and let me know because if GW2 is a smash hit and is completely fleshed out in all respects like they claim they are working on and their company only spent 60m on their game, then we can go back and stare down LA and EA like the rest of us are already doing because we are already asking the questions like "where's the ambiance, where's the AH, where's the critters, where's the npc interaction OUTSIDE of the VO cinematics" the list goes on. I hope someone does this comparison so the rest of you can see what those of us complaining are actually complaining about. They had all the money they needed and then they pull this crap it's a slap to the intelligence of every player.

Originally posted by BigBadWolfe

Okay so I'm hearing a lot of reports from players saying that they like TOR but they don't want to stay subbed to it, or that they are going to cancel and resub back to the game when they've added more content/fixed issues.

DON'T DO THAT.

EA/Bioware spent a lot of money on SW:TOR, I'm hearing estimates around $300 million or so, that's the most money a company has ever tossed at the MMO industry.  

Soooo even tho they insulted your intelligence by throwing a turd at you when they promised more, they spent huge amounts of money on this turd and still didn't deliver what they promised the players and the SW fans, AND even tho they are acting like a typical huge corporation and banning players for a simple offense using a bug that THEY THEMSELVES let slip during the ALPHA STAGE we should very much so support them anyways?! Wow...just wow.

Originally posted by BigBadWolfe

Okay so I'm hearing a lot of reports from players saying that they like TOR but they don't want to stay subbed to it, or that they are going to cancel and resub back to the game when they've added more content/fixed issues.

DON'T DO THAT.

EA/Bioware spent a lot of money on SW:TOR, I'm hearing estimates around $300 million or so, that's the most money a company has ever tossed at the MMO industry.  You WANT them to toss money at us.  However in order to cover such a big investment, Bioware needs an evern bigger return, and that's where the MMO community comes in.  Unlike other gaming industries, MMOs need to establish a relationship with the playerbase to keep making money, and lately that relationship as soured. A lot of developers think the MMO community has turned into a bunch of loud-mouth, lazy, fickle bunch of spoiled brats.

We need to change our ways and have more realistic expectations of new MMOs if the industry is going to survive. 

1.) We need to understand that a game that just launched is simply not going to have as much end-game content as a game that's been out for over a 1-6years.

2.) We need to understand that if we want new content, we have to pay for it.  If you like the game but want more content, unsubbing isn't going to help, but only make things worse.

3.) We really need to stop comparing everything to WoW.  I think this is self-explanitory.

4.) We really need to stop wishing every MMO that's not your kind of MMO will fail.  Just because I might not like that style of MMO doesn't mean that it should fail, and nobody be allowed to play it.

I'm not a SW:TOR fanboy, I'm just concerned what will happen to the industry if a huge financial investment like TOR can't buy its way into the market.  I can imagine that it's failure will create another black hole, similiar to Warhammer, where the industry was stuck in the dark ages of bad mmos for another 2-3 years.  Or even worse, MMOs turn out to be an unprofitable fad and they pull the plug like they did with the Guitar Hero type games.

So in conclusion if you do like Star Wars: The Old Republc, give them your money.  TOR may not be the best game in the market, or any good at all, but it's definitely super expensive, and it's new, and EA gets really mad if they don't get paid.  We want to keep the relationship between MMO companies and communities good, or they might pull out and go make cheap browser games or something.

Or, you know, they could go B2P. People have clearly shown they don't want to pay a sub for the game then why keep it? People are saying that they already made their money back with the box/digital sales, so why charge a sub fee right away? Why not offer buyable content DLC packs instead? Blaming the playerbase cause they don't want to think outside of the box is a sign of shortsightedness and they deserve what they get.