i can give u 2

There fully voiced story with choices. No game does that not one , u get a litte of that in aoc tortage but it stops after like level 10 

Companions and no god no they arent just pets. Companions are so much more then pets

Story and VO is not new and innovative, even if no game before SW:ToR ever had VOed quest dialogue it still wouldn't be "innovative".

It's still fundamentally identical to wow's text slabs instead you get it read out to you it's just higher production value. What might be new are the responses you can throw back even if they for the vast majority of the time result in (Accept quest) (reluctantly accept quest) (refuse quest)

Originally posted by dlld

 What might be new are the responses you can throw back even if they for the vast majority of the time result in (Accept quest) (reluctantly accept quest) (refuse quest)

Someone posted which game that multiple choice quest system is from but i don't recall, it's definitely not new and in this thread tho.

Originally posted by Scypheroth

I played SWTOR for a total of 2 1/2 weeks...in wich i unsubbed and deleted the game off my computer...to me it was boring as hell...offerd nothign i havent seen b 4 and frankly i was dissapoinShur SW offerd some things "new" to the MMORPG games...but ill say this...

 

You can polish a piece of S*#$ over and over its still goign to be a piece of shiat.

 

OR

 

You can put all this money into a civic to make it have 600 hp...its still goign to be a civic...

Loved your post but i must point out (not because i wanna enrage you or nothing but i thought it was funny) that you still have the SWTOR signature on your posts. Might wanna remove the signature code. :) BTW I 100% agree with everything you said.\

Edit: Wanna know something funnier? Mine's not loading at ALL and i just noticed HA.

Originally posted by slickbizzle

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Souldrainer

It cracks me up when people say that diologue choices are not new because of AOC.  AOC had dialogue "choices."  SWTOR has dialogue CHOICES.  The difference is that in SWTOR dialogue affects your character in a number of ways.  Gearing, titles, and character appearance all come from these choices.  Taking it to that level in an MMO is new.  It's one of the hardest features to implement in single player games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age.  Seeing this in an MMO blew my mind.

 

Yet, there's really not much of a choice as you either have to go pure good or pure evil due to gear, title, character appearance requirements.  There's no real "If I was this character, what would I do?"  No real options for neutrality.  It's either good vs. evil.  Not much of a real choice there.

 

Well..... "good or good" would mean there is no real choice.  "Good or Evil" means there is a choice.

 

Glad I could clear that up for you.

 

I'll be here all week.

Sorry, your logic is flawed.  Read my post again and you'll understand.

Originally posted by kakasaki

Originally posted by slickbizzle

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Souldrainer

It cracks me up when people say that diologue choices are not new because of AOC.  AOC had dialogue "choices."  SWTOR has dialogue CHOICES.  The difference is that in SWTOR dialogue affects your character in a number of ways.  Gearing, titles, and character appearance all come from these choices.  Taking it to that level in an MMO is new.  It's one of the hardest features to implement in single player games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age.  Seeing this in an MMO blew my mind.

 

Yet, there's really not much of a choice as you either have to go pure good or pure evil due to gear, title, character appearance requirements.  There's no real "If I was this character, what would I do?"  No real options for neutrality.  It's either good vs. evil.  Not much of a real choice there.

 

Well..... "good or good" would mean there is no real choice.  "Good or Evil" means there is a choice.

 

Glad I could clear that up for you.

 

I'll be here all week.

Not really. This is a trend affecting the entire game industry. Why have a game with "moral choices" if you only get rewarded for being the biggest dbag this side of Jersey Shore or being a saint like Mother Teresa? Moral choices are only fun when the choices are not black or white but endless shades of grey...

 

I'll be here all year if you need more help.  

You speaketh the truth!

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by Souldrainer

It cracks me up when people say that diologue choices are not new because of AOC.  AOC had dialogue "choices."  SWTOR has dialogue CHOICES.  The difference is that in SWTOR dialogue affects your character in a number of ways.  Gearing, titles, and character appearance all come from these choices.  Taking it to that level in an MMO is new.  It's one of the hardest features to implement in single player games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age.  Seeing this in an MMO blew my mind.

 

Ohhh you mean those choices that 95% of the time the only difference is the first sentence in the resonse and how in the end it doesn't matter what choce you made, that it all end the same?  Or how you just get to kill a few extra mobs but in the end it does not really affect the FP at all?

You sound like you never played the game.  95% of all dialogue choices have the potential to affect either alignment or companion affection.  If you pick the neutral "meh" choice for your companion almost all the time, you might overlook this.  But, when going to 50 with characters that have somewhat different "personalities", it becomes much more apparent.

Yes I have and no matter what choice you pick 95% of the time the dialogue remains the same from the NPC and in the end your choice is irrelevent to the outcome.  Sure there are some here n there that really affect but nothing substantionally.  BW has said that actions does impact later on but I'll see before beleiving.  Prime example is ME2, choices didn't really impact the story all that much.  And no I don't consider squad mates dying or everyone dies in the suicide mission as changing the story.

I'm not talking bout alignment or rewards or any other stuff, just the dialogue itself and actual impacts on your toon.  Alignemt is a severely flawed system as people will min/max for gear that require X alignment.  The same goes for companion affection.  All that does is potentionally pigeonholes people into X choice to get max affection with their companion or for X ligt/dark points even though normally they would never pick those options.

OP's post was about innovation, not improvement on an idea or system already in existance. People are getting off track. There is nothing innovative about someone else's idea. need an example? Fine, Windows. There you go.

wow turned the mmo population into pussy's. EQ had it right you die you lose xp ... many times i deleveled because of bad choices. stwor doesnt do anything to change that but it certtainly has an awesome story line to follow. I've broken down and tried wow found myself grabbing quests without reading them and not giving a shit why I was collecting x to bring it to y then finally giving up. . Swtor makes me care about what Im doing. Bioware did a great job. Anyone who has enjoyed their past games will love this one. Regardless of what the nay sayers have to say. 

btw love diablo and starcraft and the warcraft series and am impatiantly waiting for diablo III so this is not a slam against blizzard. 

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by Ambros123

Originally posted by Souldrainer

It cracks me up when people say that diologue choices are not new because of AOC.  AOC had dialogue "choices."  SWTOR has dialogue CHOICES.  The difference is that in SWTOR dialogue affects your character in a number of ways.  Gearing, titles, and character appearance all come from these choices.  Taking it to that level in an MMO is new.  It's one of the hardest features to implement in single player games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age.  Seeing this in an MMO blew my mind.

 

Ohhh you mean those choices that 95% of the time the only difference is the first sentence in the resonse and how in the end it doesn't matter what choce you made, that it all end the same?  Or how you just get to kill a few extra mobs but in the end it does not really affect the FP at all?

You sound like you never played the game.  95% of all dialogue choices have the potential to affect either alignment or companion affection.  If you pick the neutral "meh" choice for your companion almost all the time, you might overlook this.  But, when going to 50 with characters that have somewhat different "personalities", it becomes much more apparent.

Yes I have and no matter what choice you pick 95% of the time the dialogue remains the same from the NPC and in the end your choice is irrelevent to the outcome.  Sure there are some here n there that really affect but nothing substantionally.  BW has said that actions does impact later on but I'll see before beleiving.  Prime example is ME2, choices didn't really impact the story all that much.  And no I don't consider squad mates dying or everyone dies in the suicide mission as changing the story.

I'm not talking bout alignment or rewards or any other stuff, just the dialogue itself and actual impacts on your toon.  Alignemt is a severely flawed system as people will min/max for gear that require X alignment.  The same goes for companion affection.  All that does is potentionally pigeonholes people into X choice to get max affection with their companion or for X ligt/dark points even though normally they would never pick those options.

 The op said MMO, so please stop comparing to a single player rpg lets stop moving the goalposts to "win". If we are supposed to be talking about blue, don't start talking about goddamned turquiose.

And I am telling you now if you believe that your story choices don't affect the outcome of what happens then you have not played the game.

I call Shenanigans!

Not to mention name one mmo where your choices affect your story at all and I can solve a problem different from you.

Not to mention I will bring up one that is irrefutable that I mentioned previously. Progressing through a dungeon differently because of having different skills, yes this has been done in a Bioware single player game before, but NEVER in an mmo.

Also please check DarkPony's post.

{mod edit}

I say who cares really every MMO we see is copy of a copy in way or another. Just like any movie, fps, rts, strategy and or rpg. The point is entertainment value did you enjoy the story was it fun to play with your m8s yes or no? Did you enjoy the game for 60 hours plus which is the average game play for some big budget single player RPG's.

If you did great, the 60 dollars you put down was well worth it. The question is will you coninue to dish out money to continue to play and see what new content is provided in the future. Thats your choice I am sure plenty of us have a stack of games that being online or single player that made us enjoy the game at first then it became very mundane very quickly.

Bash the game all you want for not doing something new but did you enjoy the game? Yeah it has issue's what MMORPG has had zero issues from day one. In fact what single player game has not had a patch to fix this or that like backward flying dragons in Skyrim to DX11 in Batman being busted.

I mean really how many new FPS come out that do the same thing point and shoot and some new eye candy. OH wait new weapons and new maps we added new buildings and made the zone larger in all its the same freaking game.

The key being entertainment value, new content, new story, and somethign different to look at and hear besides the sam old dragon in the same old dungeon with the same old elf.

Enjoy the games you play dont go by what fanboys, forum trolls, and just people that like to hate anything and everything just becasue they have nothing better to offer the world.

my two cents.... 

Originally posted by itgrowls

OP's post was about innovation, not improvement on an idea or system already in existance. People are getting off track. There is nothing innovative about someone else's idea. need an example? Fine, Windows. There you go.

 So multiplayer dungeons where the players all have input into the conversation choices that can lead to different paths is an improvement on what game's idea?

Please name the game I need to play it.

I can't give you one thing OP, you got me.

Originally posted by Maquiame

Originally posted by itgrowls

OP's post was about innovation, not improvement on an idea or system already in existance. People are getting off track. There is nothing innovative about someone else's idea. need an example? Fine, Windows. There you go.

 So multiplayer dungeons where the players all have input into the conversation choices that can lead to different paths is an improvement on what game's idea?

Please name the game I need to play it.

Most co-op games have choices that lead to different paths that players make together.  Anytime you are adventuring any ANY coop game and there is a choice, that is a choice that the group makes together.

SWTOR just dumbed it down by making it so each person votes and then the game randomly chooses one.  That way it minimizes interaction with other players as you decide as a group what to do next.  It also minimizes the effects of one person 'leading' the group.  It also removes the opportunity for group members to part ways temporarily or perminantly during an adventure.  So basically it REMOVES SOCIAL ASPECTS from co-op adventuring.  That is not innovative...

Oh and if you have played the game then I suggest four classes to see the gems of this game

1.Smuggler

2.Bounty Hunter

3.Inquisitor

4.Imperial Agent

5. Trooper

If you play the Jedi classes you are really limiting what this game has to offer

What does this game offer me that no other mmorpgs offer, the ability to shoot npcs in the face who piss me off, double cross everyone and their mother, and sleep with npcs that I want to sleep with. One npc I doublecrossed her behind her back which got me more credits, then gave her info that prevented her from being arrested which enabled me to sleep with her (I had been flirting with her the entire time we had been doing business) this also led to a nasty email from the cop who was trying to arrest me and her.

You ain't fuckin nobody in WoW bud, and you certainly aint shootin someone in the face (and having a what the fuck!!! reaction from your companion from doing it)

Yeah, dont like that guy that poisoned those people, well then shoot him in the damn face, after you conned him into giving you money to let him go.  In my latest storyline I set up a crime lord, jedi and sith in a three way fight against each other, name me one mmo that lets me do that, and then the next day save some kids from slavers. Why because my guy is a total selfish jerk, but he loves the chilluns- so don't you dare hurt the kiddies. He doesn't have to be black and white, he is not a bad guy 24-7, he is a total hedonistic greedy jerk who has a soft spot for Lil' Timmy, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

So this game gives me choice, even if its fake I would rather have fake choices than NO choices. I care about my character, and I laugh at his total greyness when it comes to how he operates.

Even though choices are limited this game lets me have choice in how I react, and two or four choices is better than no choices at all, so if you have ANY other mmo's that do this please write them below

Answers please......

This whole thread is very loaded, TOR is a themepark, and until themeparks start mixing sandbox features into them they are not going to be very innovative, so most of them at the end of the say are nothing more than single player games with other people (unless you are talking about Vanguard EQ and FFXI). And you know I can be the first to admit to not liking the typical "cheap whore" themepark mmo, but I have to say that out of all the "cheap whores" TOR is the best at making me feel like I am tearin that ass up because with presentation she is one hell of a faker, and is the best out the bunch right now. Yeah she needs better makeup, yeah she does need to do some pushups, and she is not as good orally as the other one (WoW), but man does she know how to throw it back and she certainly acts like I am the best damn piece since triple chcolate rasberry moouse cheescake, and for right now that is fine enough for me. *grins wickedly

Thats right babydoll, throw dat ass gurl.

In my own opinion and this is coming from someone with no interest in playing TOR is that no game in quite some time has really innovated much, I think the last real psudo innovation was phasing. Now days when you think innovation your usually talking about how its packaged or put together with maybe a few things that are different and original. The Second generation of mmorpgs really set the future innovations used by the third gen games like WOW and they just polished them up, like a more sane User Interface, Auction houses, etc. Even Guild Wars 2 the game I am waiting on isn't using new technology as much as it's packageing 2nd gen tools that were not used so much in most 3rd gen games, I mean skill based game with weapon based attacks and scripted events, try MU online, its just been packaged better and elaborated on with their own ideas in a game world that acts like the Fable RPG, so mostly these days its about packaging the game in a way to target audience. Personally I think TOR missed the mark a bit in that regard but I will defend most modern games including TOR when the innovation debate comes up. 

Another good question would be if innovation were so easy what is your innovative idea? I have some ideas but I dont think their as much innovations as elaborations on existing things already in place.

New and Innovative that isn't being done by other games...

You know that's impossible in a thriving market with many products.

Simple fact is if it's new, and it works, it will be copied by everyone.

If it's new and it sucks, nobody will copy it, and that product will either change or fail.

If it's new and only sucks because something else isn't advanced enough yet, then when the other stuff advances to the point where it doesn't suck and copy it, but for now, it still sucks and it will either change or fail.

You ever wonder why nobody have triangular handles on screwdrivers? It's because it's hard to hold. It would suck.

Ever question why axels aren't square? Because it's a waste of material and has increased stress failures in high torque environments. In other words, it sucks.

All these games are trying to do the same basic thing, and make it easy and fun for the players. Their designs are going to be very similar because of this. It would be moronic to do anything else, unless you've got the brand new ingenious wonderthingie that nobody had thought of before. And if you do, it's a very very temporary advantage, as everyone will copy it in nothing flat because it works so well.

So maybe instead of vainly trying to rate a game by it's non-conformity, try rating it by it's quality. I know my brother has put some really strange stuff in his omlets, but most of them make me gag. On the other hand, my cousin makes a great ham and cheese omlet that's always perfect.  

Originally posted by wormywyrm

Originally posted by Maquiame

Originally posted by itgrowls

OP's post was about innovation, not improvement on an idea or system already in existance. People are getting off track. There is nothing innovative about someone else's idea. need an example? Fine, Windows. There you go.

 So multiplayer dungeons where the players all have input into the conversation choices that can lead to different paths is an improvement on what game's idea?

Please name the game I need to play it.

Most co-op games have choices that lead to different paths that players make together.  Anytime you are adventuring any ANY coop game and there is a choice, that is a choice that the group makes together.

SWTOR just dumbed it down by making it so each person votes and then the game randomly chooses one.  That way it minimizes interaction with other players as you decide as a group what to do next.  It also minimizes the effects of one person 'leading' the group.  It also removes the opportunity for group members to part ways temporarily or perminantly during an adventure.  So basically it REMOVES SOCIAL ASPECTS from co-op adventuring.  That is not innovative...

Name the game sir, and please note that we are talking about mmos, the op said MMO's not co op games, stop moving the goal posts, name an mmo that allows this please.

The only thing it does is allow your party members to speak in the same quests giving you social points so you can use these to buy new speeders and clothing.

It has companions with a decent AI, but then most MMO's have a pet system of some kind with worse AI.

As for something completly new to the MMO market...... there is nothing ground breaking.

If you strip away its voice over acting all you have is a WoW clone set in Star Wars.

Originally posted by barasawa

New and Innovative that isn't being done by other games...

You know that's impossible in a thriving market with many products.

 

Simple fact is if it's new, and it works, it will be copied by everyone.

If it's new and it sucks, nobody will copy it, and that product will either change or fail.

If it's new and only sucks because something else isn't advanced enough yet, then when the other stuff advances to the point where it doesn't suck and copy it, but for now, it still sucks and it will either change or fail.

 

You ever wonder why nobody have triangular handles on screwdrivers? It's because it's hard to hold. It would suck.

Ever question why axels aren't square? Because it's a waste of material and has increased stress failures in high torque environments. In other words, it sucks.

 

All these games are trying to do the same basic thing, and make it easy and fun for the players. Their designs are going to be very similar because of this. It would be moronic to do anything else, unless you've got the brand new ingenious wonderthingie that nobody had thought of before. And if you do, it's a very very temporary advantage, as everyone will copy it in nothing flat because it works so well.

So maybe instead of vainly trying to rate a game by it's non-conformity, try rating it by it's quality. I know my brother has put some really strange stuff in his omlets, but most of them make me gag. On the other hand, my cousin makes a great ham and cheese omlet that's always perfect.  

That depends on your perspective. One could compare games to art and who in their right mind would try to copy a Rembrandt, change a few details, then try to resell it for a comparable high price? Same goes for most music.