Trending Games | Landmark | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade | Camelot Unchained | Elder Scrolls Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,919,458 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,309,833
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I miss olfschool PvE

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search
91 posts found
  Torik

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2328

1/08/12 1:25:36 PM#61
Originally posted by rutaq

It is like being an adult and arguing that playing tic-tac-toe is a better game than chess.   You can still have fun playing tic-tac-toe but you have no basis to proclaim it being some amazing game.    

 

 

From my perspective the 'old school' players act like they are playing chess when in fact they have just been playing way too much tic-tac-toe.  So while they are telling me how they are 'adult' and superior to 'new school' players, all I can think of is that they should probably be kept away from sharp objects and I should probably tell their parents.

  Valkaern

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/03
Posts: 513

1/08/12 1:25:47 PM#62
Originally posted by kishe

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

I'll agree with you for sure.

Also, not to be neglected are the social elements open world dungeons brought to the table.

I've had the most memorable experiences and social interactions in games where I was NOT dragged along by the nose from task hub to task hub but was allowed to advance through levels by, get this, just going out and experiencing the game world.

It never once felt like a 'grind' to me as the interaction of other players adds a lot of dynamics that are not present in a linear repetative one-way mini instance dungeon. Task hubs full of click 10 vase chores feels like a grind compared to pushing your group to its limits as you decend deeper and deeper into a dangerous, risk filled dungeon. And the rewards were sweeter as well.

How long since that room was cleared? Is it safe to pull or will we get re-pops? Which way should we go/which named should we check on? That coupled with the risk and difficulty level that was present before WoW nerfed MMOs made for some edge of your seat encounters that just hasn't been emulated in linear one-way instances no matter how much 'story' the developers try to shoehorn in to my adventures.

None of their stories could possibly rival those of my friends and I that we still recall a decade later.

The people that post comments like 'You can go grind mobs in (insert themepark clone)' clearly haven't experienced what gaming in a world without being dragged along the same stale path everyone else is on can be and have been. All of the happy accidents and unintended creative uses of abilities made for much better action as well in my opinion (Monk/SK FD pulling, Kiting, parking etc). These elements have all been squashed now to give developers more control over how we experience their content, singlehandedly removing any ability to approach encounters in creative ways. There is ONE waythe script will play out now. There is ONE tactic to beat the boss/raid encounter. Yawn. I liked when we were allowed to creatively approach situations rather than memorise some script from youtube.

  rutaq

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/06
Posts: 417

1/08/12 1:34:44 PM#63
Originally posted by Torik
Originally posted by rutaq

It is like being an adult and arguing that playing tic-tac-toe is a better game than chess.   You can still have fun playing tic-tac-toe but you have no basis to proclaim it being some amazing game.    

 

 

From my perspective the 'old school' players act like they are playing chess when in fact they have just been playing way too much tic-tac-toe.  So while they are telling me how they are 'adult' and superior to 'new school' players, all I can think of is that they should probably be kept away from sharp objects and I should probably tell their parents.

I can understand where you are coming from,

    I think it is because over the last 6 years the MMO genre has been pushing out nothing other than tic-tac-toe to try to make as much money as possible off the masses and the chess players are stuck with no where to play chess.  The Devs promise meaningful challenging content but mostly it never arrives or is "balanced" to appease the cry of the tic-tac-toe players when they can't easily win.

 

  Looking back at the birth of MMOs it is hard to argue that the quests in the original EQ didn't required much more effort and time to complete.  There were no floating icons,  mini maps, gps like arrows pointing your way,  no shading on the map to show exactly where to go, no glowy effect on the tiems to show you exactly where to click.   You read the quest text, puzzled through it and did lots of searching and kill monsters for faction.

  Raid content was somthing that required extraordinary skill to recruit, motivate and manage a group of 40+ people for just a chance to challenge the content and you didn't get rewards for losing.   Raiding was an achievement, not something that every average player could do while watching TV, texting on their phone and rolling their face across the keyboard.   Surprisingly most players didn't defeat all Raid bosses, they didn't have all the perfect gear for thier character, the game didn't need a treadmil of new Raid gear to grind because it could take years to complete the challenge of getting your first set, if ever.

 

 Sure, the old school game didn't have 10+ million subscribers, that is because there weren't 10+ million players that could meet the challenge, the time commitment, coordiination and group management skills needed to be successful.

So you may feel like the Old Timers have a superior atittude but in many cases they are experienced, patient, competitive players that chuckle at the insignificant challenges that current MMOs offer and luckily have found forums like MMORPG to talk about the state of MMOs and the easy mode money grab they have become.

 

 

  Rebornc

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 35

1/08/12 6:56:00 PM#64

I also find myself missing the good old xpgrind in a group i had in daoc.

Sure it was fun back then. But on the other hand i also remember how i enjoyed not having to do this anymore in wow :P

Now its my opinion that neither grinding a single spot nor questing all the time is a good solution. And if you mix both kinds with each other it gets even worse. All new developers need is a total new design of progress in MMOs. And there are serveral good solutions a competent team could do.

Quests should be things a player is doing while he is exploring the world. Naturally and not forced by some questhubs. Sure those could still exist but there should be a lot of other stuff.

For example: You are a lonely Hero walking around and find a castle full of orcs. If you try to discover that castle you could get several things out of there.  If you find the little treasure in the highest tower of that castle? You get XP for it. If you free some prisoners in the dungeon of the castle -> XP

How you manage those things should be your style. Stealth, brutal force, teleport whatever you want. You should just lvl by playing and not play to lvl.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

1/08/12 8:08:28 PM#65
Originally posted by yewsef

 

Don't we all miss that OP?

 

We being the people who tried both worlds. One being the Quest Driven content which you explained (going back to town taking 12 quests doing boring errands...etc) and the other style of being free doing whatever we want in the world (whether crawling a dungeon or grinding a spot).

 

Having tried both... I can tell you that I am SURE I find the freedom choice REGARDLESS of how people might call it (grinding) it was WAY more fun than soloing quests running 50% of your time from point A to B to C just because THEY want you to.

 

I'd rather decide where to go... find a group to do whatever we decide to do in that place.

 

Your example brings back beautiful memories from EverQuest even doing repetative XP grinds it was way more fun than running all the time collecting mushroom, alone. I am definite that a lot of other people miss those good old days.

 

You do NOT speak for all of us. I tried both too and find that the old EQ world is overwhelming boring, repetitive and not a very good game, compared to modern MMOs.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3460

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

1/08/12 11:44:04 PM#66


Originally posted by Dewm
More people play wow because it takes less time and because their friends play....not because its "more fun"


I have to ask this... How do *you* know what these other players define as fun? Your whole argument is based on the assumption that every (or nearly every) WoW player HATES the game and has absolutely no fun whatsoever playing it. That all these other factors pulled from wherever you are pulling them from are truly irrelevant. You are not addressing whether or not players find playing WoW fun. This is not about what anyone thinks is better.

I am saying that because players keep paying the sub fees, they must be having fun. I could be wrong, as there are masochists in the world. From your replies, it sounds like you play WoW, but have absolutely no fun whatsoever while playing. This totally escapes my way of thinking. If I am not having "fun" playing something, I stop playing it. Maybe that is where I am mistaken. Perhaps you are right and 9,000,000, no... hell... ALL of the 10,000,000 players actually HATE the game so much, they keep paying $15 a month to do so!

Heck, I may even go out on a limb and suggest that perhaps some players find playing with their friends is "fun." Maybe some of them even find an easy game "fun."

I guess I am confused why you are so adamant that NOBODY finds playing WoW fun...

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Dewm

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/29/09
Posts: 1347

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/09/12 2:55:31 AM#67
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Dewm
More people play wow because it takes less time and because their friends play....not because its "more fun"



I have to ask this... How do *you* know what these other players define as fun? Your whole argument is based on the assumption that every (or nearly every) WoW player HATES the game and has absolutely no fun whatsoever playing it. That all these other factors pulled from wherever you are pulling them from are truly irrelevant. You are not addressing whether or not players find playing WoW fun. This is not about what anyone thinks is better.

 

I guess I am confused why you are so adamant that NOBODY finds playing WoW fun...

First off...I have no clue when or where I said "nobody has fun playing wow" that is the dumbest thing I've heard all night. We were talking about WoW being "MORE fun, or not"

Second my assumptions are based off of my experience. I have 4 friends that play it.

My brother inlaw, he plays it because he finds it FUN

my sister she bought it because another friend had it...and plays it PURELY for the social interaction. (She doesn't play ANY games besides that....so she wouldn't know if FFXI was more fun or not)

my cousin is almost the same way, he plays it because thats the only thing his friends play...he's never even tried another MMO...so he wouldn't know what was more fun or not.

and then my wife played it only because I played it...we both quite about the same time..it just got boring.

 

 

So out of those people 3 of them played it because their friends played it, not because it was "more fun then X MMO"

  Banquetto

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1033

1/09/12 3:15:10 AM#68


Originally posted by Dewm
my sister she bought it because another friend had it...and plays it PURELY for the social interaction. (She doesn't play ANY games besides that....so she wouldn't know if FFXI was more fun or not)
my cousin is almost the same way, he plays it because thats the only thing his friends play...he's never even tried another MMO...so he wouldn't know what was more fun or not.
and then my wife played it only because I played it...we both quite about the same time..it just got boring.
 
 
So out of those people 3 of them played it because their friends played it, not because it was "more fun then X MMO"


Ironic that you put this forward as a bad thing, when this thread was started by someone extolling the virtues of oldschool PvE because it was more social.. because you could "start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh", unlike modern MMOs which have reduced and removed the social aspects in favour of solofication.


But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

  Adamantine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3394

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

1/09/12 7:57:32 AM#69
Originally posted by Cuathon

People refuse to accept marketing as the power of WoW. As I explained in my ealier detailed post WoW was in the mainstream non-gamer consciousness prior to launch to a degree that no other game has, could, or will replicate. Just like Diablo vs every other roguelike and TES in srpgs. It doesn't mean those games are the best ever. WoW did a lot of things right in regards to accessibility although vanilla WoW wasn't on the level that current WoW is in that way. But that isn't the number one thing. Marketing is.

Excuse me ? TES has no special quality. Its basically a RPG so toned down and mainstreamed that even non-RPG-fans might enjoy it. But it doesnt have such an extreme success that it would overshadow all other RPGs. I dont believe marketing has much to do with how successful it was, either.

Had they not decided to bundle Skyrim with Streamworks, I would have bought it for sure. But so - meh.

 

  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

1/09/12 8:20:29 AM#70
Originally posted by Banquetto

But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

 

Raiding in WoW is an endgame thing. Level 1 to whatever the cap is now has always been a solo quest grind. I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned, leveling has always been the real meat-and-potatoes of mmos.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

1/09/12 11:31:04 AM#71
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Banquetto

But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

 

Raiding in WoW is an endgame thing. Level 1 to whatever the cap is now has always been a solo quest grind. I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned, leveling has always been the real meat-and-potatoes of mmos.

You haven't played WOW for a long time?

Leveling has not been a quest grind for a LONG LONG TIME. Most of the levelings are done in LFD. In fact, many would avoid questing on alts because they have done those quests before. And running dungeons are much faster anyway.

  Dewm

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/29/09
Posts: 1347

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/09/12 12:00:58 PM#72
Originally posted by Banquetto

 


Originally posted by Dewm
my sister she bought it because another friend had it...and plays it PURELY for the social interaction. (She doesn't play ANY games besides that....so she wouldn't know if FFXI was more fun or not)
my cousin is almost the same way, he plays it because thats the only thing his friends play...he's never even tried another MMO...so he wouldn't know what was more fun or not.
and then my wife played it only because I played it...we both quite about the same time..it just got boring.
 
 
So out of those people 3 of them played it because their friends played it, not because it was "more fun then X MMO"



Ironic that you put this forward as a bad thing, when this thread was started by someone extolling the virtues of oldschool PvE because it was more social.. because you could "start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh", unlike modern MMOs which have reduced and removed the social aspects in favour of solofication.

 


But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

 

I wasn't saying that it was a BAD thing..What I was saying is...out of the people that I know in real life...none of them play it because they found it a suppioror MMO. Most of them never even knew what a MMO was.. 

 

And as far as the leveling thing goes...its kinda ironic that its true that its a raid focused solo-play game...

 

You solo from 1-80 (you level to cap without saying a single sentence in chat) And then as soon as you hit level cap you jump the the tredmill and raid untill you die..

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

1/09/12 12:06:57 PM#73
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Banquetto

But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

 

Raiding in WoW is an endgame thing. Level 1 to whatever the cap is now has always been a solo quest grind. I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned, leveling has always been the real meat-and-potatoes of mmos.

You haven't played WOW for a long time?

Leveling has not been a quest grind for a LONG LONG TIME. Most of the levelings are done in LFD. In fact, many would avoid questing on alts because they have done those quests before. And running dungeons are much faster anyway.

I miss old school PVE because I was new to MMOs at that time and I didn't know what "end game" was.  When you're leveling and you're not aware of "end game" who cares if it takes a long time?

 

And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

1/09/12 1:29:02 PM#74
Originally posted by Dewm

 

You solo from 1-80 (you level to cap without saying a single sentence in chat) And then as soon as you hit level cap you jump the the tredmill and raid untill you die..

Once again, I think people should not state something so blatantly false as if it is the truth.

First of all, the level cap of WOW is 85, not 80. Secondly, no one solo from 1-85 anymore. Most (unless those who are really anti-social and would NOT mind leveling SLOWER) level by using the LFD system.

My son just reached 85 on his main yesterday. He quested problay less than 5% of the time. It is done almost 100% by running dungeons.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

1/09/12 1:32:05 PM#75
Originally posted by Angier2758

 

And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

 

Me too. The good news is that the LFD runs are the same whether you are leveling or at the end game. I reallly like it when i can just pop in a dungeon with my sons, or a friend, or just with random people.

In fact, anyone accusing WOW of being a solo game is just wrong. It is moving towards small group content and I think it is the right way to go. In the next expansion, i am MOST excited about the scenario, which are essentially instanced based group quest. That *will* revive group quest as viable, particularly if the rewards are good.

  FrostWyrm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1038

1/09/12 1:40:32 PM#76
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Banquetto

But I guess WoW has always been criticised simultaneously for both being so solo-focused that it was hardly an MMO, and also for being raid-or-die with no other options.

 

Raiding in WoW is an endgame thing. Level 1 to whatever the cap is now has always been a solo quest grind. I can't speak for everyone, but as far as I'm concerned, leveling has always been the real meat-and-potatoes of mmos.

You haven't played WOW for a long time?

Leveling has not been a quest grind for a LONG LONG TIME. Most of the levelings are done in LFD. In fact, many would avoid questing on alts because they have done those quests before. And running dungeons are much faster anyway.

I'll admit its been a while. I played biefly after Cataclysm came out (Bliz gave me 10 free days to try the xpac). It honestly felt like they'd dumbed the game down even further. I ended up solo quest grinding to about 55 in the first week before getting bored and quitting again.

I'm not an antisocial person or anything, but WoW is just one of those games that I haven't (at least since vanilla) found a group of people I enjoy playing with.

I was tempted to try again after they introduced monks. Since vanilla WoW I'd been saying the game needs a monk class. Unfortunately I don't really feel up to trying the game out again. Or at least not paying for it. If Bliz gives me free time again I might give it another chance.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

1/09/12 1:52:06 PM#77
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
 

I'll admit its been a while. I played biefly after Cataclysm came out (Bliz gave me 10 free days to try the xpac). It honestly felt like they'd dumbed the game down even further. I ended up solo quest grinding to about 55 in the first week before getting bored and quitting again.

I'm not an antisocial person or anything, but WoW is just one of those games that I haven't (at least since vanilla) found a group of people I enjoy playing with.

I was tempted to try again after they introduced monks. Since vanilla WoW I'd been saying the game needs a monk class. Unfortunately I don't really feel up to trying the game out again. Or at least not paying for it. If Bliz gives me free time again I might give it another chance.

Ok. In that case, you may appreciate some more information. Let me give you some and see if you would like to come back and try.

1) Catalysm is actually MORE difficult than WOTLK. Players complained and the newer content is a bit easier. When i say more difficult, i mean the heroic dungeons. There are almost-instant death mechanics in several boss fight. Unless you are really over-gearing the dungeons, you have to know the fight. This is LESS true in the 4.3 heroic dungeons.

So if difficulty is what you want, play some H Cata dungeons (NOT the twilight ones) and see how you like it. Note that you have to be 85 to do those.

2) If you need to level, never never do it ONLY by quest. That is very boring unless you like the quest line (to see the sights, kill new mobs, that kind of things). I did my 80-85 main toon leveling probably at least half by dungeons. My alt did it 100% through dungeons.Not only it is MUCH faster, you get blue items. If you have a friend also playing, it is much more fun queueing dungeons together.

3) MOP is adding scenarios, a kind of queue-able instance group quest. I think there will be more and better small group content in wow, which is what you seem to like.

 

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

1/09/12 2:45:36 PM#78
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Angier2758

 

And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

 

Me too. The good news is that the LFD runs are the same whether you are leveling or at the end game. I reallly like it when i can just pop in a dungeon with my sons, or a friend, or just with random people.

In fact, anyone accusing WOW of being a solo game is just wrong. It is moving towards small group content and I think it is the right way to go. In the next expansion, i am MOST excited about the scenario, which are essentially instanced based group quest. That *will* revive group quest as viable, particularly if the rewards are good.

 WoW is definitely not a solo game, and is not moving in that direction.

It is however, moving in the direction of the Guild Wars CORPG model.  Guild Wars was not a solo game, it was all about instanced, group content (like, the entire game).  This is what WoW is becoming like.

And really, themepark MMORPGs have been moving away from the traditional MMORPG model and creeping closer and closer to the CORPG model for some time.  IMO, I think that a genre split needs to happen.  Games like WoW and SWTOR just need to give in and become CORPGs...that's really what they are.  And there needs to be other games that actually emphasize MMORPG features to fill in the MMORPG void.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

1/09/12 2:54:09 PM#79
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Angier2758

 

And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

 

Me too. The good news is that the LFD runs are the same whether you are leveling or at the end game. I reallly like it when i can just pop in a dungeon with my sons, or a friend, or just with random people.

In fact, anyone accusing WOW of being a solo game is just wrong. It is moving towards small group content and I think it is the right way to go. In the next expansion, i am MOST excited about the scenario, which are essentially instanced based group quest. That *will* revive group quest as viable, particularly if the rewards are good.

 WoW is definitely not a solo game, and is not moving in that direction.

It is however, moving in the direction of the Guild Wars CORPG model.  Guild Wars was not a solo game, it was all about instanced, group content (like, the entire game).  This is what WoW is becoming like.

And really, themepark MMORPGs have been moving away from the traditional MMORPG model and creeping closer and closer to the CORPG model for some time.  IMO, I think that a genre split needs to happen.  Games like WoW and SWTOR just need to give in and become CORPGs...that's really what they are.  And there needs to be other games that actually emphasize MMORPG features to fill in the MMORPG void.


The problem is that srpg and corpg games masquerading as mmorgps have brought really high bars of graphical quality that the niche market of real mmorpgs can't afford.

Sandboxes are for players to make their own stories and in that context its not possible to have procedural worlds and creatures and lairs and even human made settlements that are as graphically complex as hand made never changing settings in themeparks.

 

  Dewm

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/29/09
Posts: 1347

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/09/12 4:02:24 PM#80
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Angier2758

 

And yeah I enjoyed WoW's LFD dungeon grind.

 

Me too. The good news is that the LFD runs are the same whether you are leveling or at the end game. I reallly like it when i can just pop in a dungeon with my sons, or a friend, or just with random people.

In fact, anyone accusing WOW of being a solo game is just wrong. It is moving towards small group content and I think it is the right way to go. In the next expansion, i am MOST excited about the scenario, which are essentially instanced based group quest. That *will* revive group quest as viable, particularly if the rewards are good.

 WoW is definitely not a solo game, and is not moving in that direction.

It is however, moving in the direction of the Guild Wars CORPG model.  Guild Wars was not a solo game, it was all about instanced, group content (like, the entire game).  This is what WoW is becoming like.

And really, themepark MMORPGs have been moving away from the traditional MMORPG model and creeping closer and closer to the CORPG model for some time.  IMO, I think that a genre split needs to happen.  Games like WoW and SWTOR just need to give in and become CORPGs...that's really what they are.  And there needs to be other games that actually emphasize MMORPG features to fill in the MMORPG void.


The problem is that srpg and corpg games masquerading as mmorgps have brought really high bars of graphical quality that the niche market of real mmorpgs can't afford.

Sandboxes are for players to make their own stories and in that context its not possible to have procedural worlds and creatures and lairs and even human made settlements that are as graphically complex as hand made never changing settings in themeparks.

 

Go check out Archeage... It looks pretty ****** epic.

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search