Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

Originally posted by kishe

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

Pretty sure in green would be described as grinding?

Originally posted by 77lolmac77

Originally posted by kishe

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

Pretty sure in green would be described as grinding?

There is no definition of grinding.

To one person doing dozens of kill / bring x quests would be grind and to other it would not.

To one person killing mobs for xp would be grind and to other it would not.

To one person doing same dungeon(s) over and over to get enough tokens would be a grind and to other it would not.

To one person crafting would be a grind and to other it would not.

etc,

You get the point?

There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.

Originally posted by kishe

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

Sounds very close to my expeirence with FFXI, and the ONLY reason I am still looking for a MMO. One of these days I will find it again. 

I played FFXI for around 8hrs a day (back before I had a job)....and it was NEVER "grindy" it was awesome.

Agree with you %100

Originally posted by dlld

There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.

how is it clear?

I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?

I agree with the OP. If the combat is fun, I would much rather spend 2 hours of constant combat in a group—even fighting exactly the same enemies from the same camp over and over—rather than be shuttled here and there among quest hubs to do 3 minutes of fighting before being ushered on to the next enemy type. And if the combat isn't particularly fun, I'd still rather be in a static stationary camp because it's conducive to social interaction. I do hope that at some point a retro game like that comes along.

"29 Monk, Looking for Ledge Group."

Yeah. /signed.

Don't we all miss that OP?

We being the people who tried both worlds. One being the Quest Driven content which you explained (going back to town taking 12 quests doing boring errands...etc) and the other style of being free doing whatever we want in the world (whether crawling a dungeon or grinding a spot).

Having tried both... I can tell you that I am SURE I find the freedom choice REGARDLESS of how people might call it (grinding) it was WAY more fun than soloing quests running 50% of your time from point A to B to C just because THEY want you to.

I'd rather decide where to go... find a group to do whatever we decide to do in that place.

Your example brings back beautiful memories from EverQuest even doing repetative XP grinds it was way more fun than running all the time collecting mushroom, alone. I am definite that a lot of other people miss those good old days.

I really hope that a game finds a way to combine the socialization and flexibility of old school group grinding with the variety of quest grinding.

And I think the key is to...

STOP TYING QUESTS TO INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS.

THIS is the reason you can't group up in modern theme-parks like you used to in old school ones.  It's because every player in the game will inevitably be at a different point in all their quests than you, so grouping up just winds up being a major pain:

Bob:  "Hey want to group to kill Blackpaw?"

Mary:  "Nah, I still have to kill 10 gnolls and 20 gnoll mages before I get that quest.  Did you want to group to kill Whiteclaw?"

Bob:  "Nah, I already did that one...oh well, cya!"

Mary:  "Cya!"

Imagine if a game that still had quests complete with storylines and all, but didn't tie these quests to the player, and instead tied them to the world.  In this way, whenever a player came across a quest, they could do it, right there and then.  No prerequisites needed!

You could just do quests by randomly running around the world with your friends!

So instead of asking players what quest they are on when you want to group, you would just say, "hey want to group?"  And they would say "sure!"

---

Originally posted by Dewm

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Originally posted by dlld
There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.

---

how is it clear?
I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?

---

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

---

Originally posted by Dewm

---

Originally posted by dlld
There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.

---

how is it clear?
I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?

---

10,000,000+ WoW subscribers voting with their pocket books?

 

9,900,000 of them never played not-quest-based mmo. (hell most of them even don't propably know that there are mmorpg's existing or possible to do that don't copy WoW-pattern).

Even though I partially agree where you come from.

Still @Creslin123

Originally posted by Creslin321

I really hope that a game finds a way to combine the socialization and flexibility of old school group grinding with the variety of quest grinding.

And I think the key is to...

STOP TYING QUESTS TO INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS.

THIS is the reason you can't group up in modern theme-parks like you used to in old school ones.  It's because every player in the game will inevitably be at a different point in all their quests than you, so grouping up just winds up being a major pain:

Bob:  "Hey want to group to kill Blackpaw?"

Mary:  "Nah, I still have to kill 10 gnolls and 20 gnoll mages before I get that quest.  Did you want to group to kill Whiteclaw?"

Bob:  "Nah, I already did that one...oh well, cya!"

Mary:  "Cya!"

Imagine if a game that still had quests complete with storylines and all, but didn't tie these quests to the player, and instead tied them to the world.  In this way, whenever a player came across a quest, they could do it, right there and then.  No prerequisites needed!

You could just do quests by randomly running around the world with your friends!

So instead of asking players what quest they are on when you want to group, you would just say, "hey want to group?"  And they would say "sure!"

Guild Wars 2 is coming soon.  Hang in there.

Originally posted by kishe

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

I always form those kinds of groups in games I play.  I actually do that in SWTOR as well.  Nothing like grabbing 4 other people and just running around clearing the heroic areas while messing around and maybe rp ing!  @_@

Some of the games I did this on that led to some really fun times  were :

Champions Online - Mixed with some open quests in a place where enemies were 5 levels higher = MEGA FUN and nice and challenging.  It starts losing steam at level  45 ish because you start running out of places to just kill and it all gets too easy.

Ragnarok Online - Wait this is what you normally do in that game o.o

WoW - ITs fun in the heroic areas.  I remember doing this in that undead place near stratholme was it?  Was fun! @_@

Anyways...I think the problem is finding people to just go do that with.  Everyone seems to be sooooooo focused on "I WANNA GET HIGHER LEVEL! " or "I WANT BETTER GEAR!" and its kinda annoying....

Originally posted by dlld

There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.

No its a superior way of levelling and getting rewards.  And most MMO players WANT to level fast and get their rewards fast.

How many posts do you see everyday with people saying "We need better quests" and stuff like that?  Im pretty sure if you made grinding mobs level you faster, people will rush to that and abandon questing.

I remember my first time with a quest based MMO (WoW) I was just shocked at the speed I Was levelling.  It was like "go to a hub, go out and do all the quests, go back and level" I was just doing those quests and levelling as fast as I can.  I wasnt doing them cuz It was fun.  I was doing them cuz it seemed like I was levelling fast.  And levelling is fun.  New talent point! whoopie!

Originally posted by windsoul44

Originally posted by Creslin321

I really hope that a game finds a way to combine the socialization and flexibility of old school group grinding with the variety of quest grinding.

And I think the key is to...

STOP TYING QUESTS TO INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS.

THIS is the reason you can't group up in modern theme-parks like you used to in old school ones.  It's because every player in the game will inevitably be at a different point in all their quests than you, so grouping up just winds up being a major pain:

Bob:  "Hey want to group to kill Blackpaw?"

Mary:  "Nah, I still have to kill 10 gnolls and 20 gnoll mages before I get that quest.  Did you want to group to kill Whiteclaw?"

Bob:  "Nah, I already did that one...oh well, cya!"

Mary:  "Cya!"

Imagine if a game that still had quests complete with storylines and all, but didn't tie these quests to the player, and instead tied them to the world.  In this way, whenever a player came across a quest, they could do it, right there and then.  No prerequisites needed!

You could just do quests by randomly running around the world with your friends!

So instead of asking players what quest they are on when you want to group, you would just say, "hey want to group?"  And they would say "sure!"

Guild Wars 2 is coming soon.  Hang in there.

 Heheh :).

I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

Originally posted by Creslin321

 Heheh :).

I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

I find it hard to believe that theres a single mmo player who isnt even slightly hyped for GW2 tbh...  Hai faiv for GW2!  ("")(^_^)

Originally posted by Castillle

Originally posted by Creslin321

 Heheh :).

I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

I find it hard to believe that theres a single mmo player who isnt even slightly hyped for GW2 tbh...  Hai faiv for GW2!  ("")(^_^)

 Hahah high five :).  I agree.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Castillle

Originally posted by Creslin321

 Heheh :).

I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

I find it hard to believe that theres a single mmo player who isnt even slightly hyped for GW2 tbh...  Hai faiv for GW2!  ("")(^_^)

 Hahah high five :).  I agree.

 

 

Personally I find it hard to believe there are still people who get hyped about upcoming MMO releases.  You'd think we'd have learned by now.  High expectations are the cause of disappointment, it will never live up to your hype.

Just sit back, relax, wait at release and see what is there.

Venge

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Castillle

Originally posted by Creslin321

 Heheh :).

I try not to explicitly mention it in my posts that are obviously talking about its mechanics because if I do, a bunch of people will say I'm an over-hyped fanboi lol.

I find it hard to believe that theres a single mmo player who isnt even slightly hyped for GW2 tbh...  Hai faiv for GW2!  ("")(^_^)

 Hahah high five :).  I agree.

Personally I find it hard to believe there are still people who get hyped about upcoming MMO releases.  You'd think we'd have learned by now.  High expectations are the cause of disappointment, it will never live up to your hype.

Just sit back, relax, wait at release and see what is there.

Venge

 There's a difference between "hyped" and "over-hyped."  There's nothing wrong about being excited for a game that you have a realistic view about.

There is something wrong with erecting a huge shrine in your room to a game that hasn't been released and you have very little information on :).

I've come to the conclusion that what many people call "grinding" is what I call "playing the game".