All MMOS lack World Progression, Or rather story changing effects. Also they all lack what I would like to call True Immersion.

Simply put X people do the exact same thing, everyone is in the same static environment, and kill the same foes over and over again.

3 simple things that would change this.

1: No player made Guilds

2: You can never train everything, you have to take a path and stick to it. Given time you might branch out into diffrent areas..

3: Raid Objectives Die and make a significant Impact on the gaming world.

No player made Guilds

I can here you all go WTF are you saying moron... But my sugestion is make all Organizations Ingame Joinable. How? its easy. 

Now lets say we have a Capital Town. In this Town we have the following organizations (im using genaral names to describe what they do). The Kings Body Guard, The thief guild, The assassins Guild, The Craftmanship Guild, The wandering Traders guild, The Mercanary guild, The Heroic Heros guild. The Lands Army guild and the Mage Guild, The secreat sociaty guild, The Nobles guild and etc etc we can make up alot more but lets start with these simple once.

Evryone starts out with some basic skills but, as you progress thrugh the game you train up your skill towards what you want your charecter to become. That means if you want to make a theif you train skills like sneak, pickpocket, shadowing and knifewielding and backstabbing etc. If you want to be a crafter you train in smithing and leatherworking and recource gathering etc. To help you along with quest chains and equipment its obvious you will benefit by joining the organization that best suits your play style. This dosent mean that your mercanary that uses a two-handed sword and heavy armour plays the same as your friends mercanary that likes dual wielding and light armour... or that other player who prefer axes and a shield.. But you all decide to join the Mercanary guild.  

Now the fun starts, you prgress both in rank and status in your chosen guild and you all have the same base of Operations now. That large Tavern up on the hill. As time progresses more people join and you can do quest to make the Mercanary guild better... You get a large training area behind the Tavern, stables to keep Horses, One of your members have focused on smithing only and he gets a Blacksmith house were he can make weapons for the rest of you (for a price ofc) Also some of your members are really dedicated and advance to the leadership of the guild. Now is were the fun starts.. Why not give your mercanary guild Epic quests. These Epic quest involves the hole guild, say that you are about 100 people now. But its your RAID quests... they take time and effort but when you are done something World changing happens. To keep you bussy betwen these Epic Quest you can fight with your Rivals of other mercanary guilds from other Towns, Protect caravans, Catch Thieves that have bounties on them, Help out the city guard or just go out adventuring and explore that cave you heard the Tavern keeper speak about.. all these subplot quest works as usal quest do accept some of them might be made by players. If a thief player steals things, the victim players can put a bounty on him and you mercenaries are the once who get the contract. The traveling merchant (player, who has zero combat skills as he has to focus on other things) Needs to hire guards for his caravans. Two player nobles want to settle  a dispute but they let 2 mercenaries do the fighting for them etc etc... The possibilities are endless. But making people belong to Developer created guilds makes it easy to let the diffrent fractions Intreact with one another...

You can also only join one organization and this is final.. you cant be both a thief and a member of the Town gauard at the same time.. You have to make a decission and stick with it.

As the world evolves so must you... Every organization get a set number of Epic quest per year I say 6 per year, you have 2 months to do all the prequests and side quest to clear each one and you have to clear one to get the next one etc. Each epic quest make some change on the world and some may even have you fight against other players.. the wining side decides the outcome of the change... Example Kingdom 1 fights Kingdom 2 over a vally that lies betwen their kingdoms.. Army guild 1 fights army guild 2 untill the mather is resolved ( this involves scouting, takind down forts, espionage and assassinations) so other guilds might get involved also.. in the end Army 1 of Kingdom 1 wins and now the vally is theirs. Their soldiers patrol the roads, taxes are collected by them and the the largest town is left as a Ruin an ever reminder of what happend.. And a huge standing stone is Put up in kingdom One with all the names of the players in army guild 1 thanking them for their service to their country....

The key thing here is that Diffrent player will have totaly diffrent Experinces. Players of the mercenary guild will for example  see that the Old Monastary has been Rebuilt  outside of town... when they return from the campaign against the the Barabarian hordes of the north. And traveling out there they will learn that the "Monks guild" dedicated to the Great god have finaly after much effort rebuilt their temple.. And that the King has made It the state Religion again.. The players that are members of the Monks guild on the other hand will have done all the quest and worked to get it done.. Later the thiefs guild gets contracted to steel an artifact from the temple.. and if they succeed the Monks can hire the Mercenaries to catch them.. action and reaction...

When a world is Evolving so must your charecter Evolve... Ageing is a part of life and my sugestion is also to let charecters age.. Each year your charecter become older... He starts out young then becomes middle aged and then he gets old to finaly after 3 years of out of game time he has to Die or retire... OMG what a horrible Idea you say :). But we all know that the Next generation always surpasses the one before,  Just look at our Real word.. So after your first charecter Retiers or dies (your choise) you play his decendents (his child or his aprentice or why not play the villan or hero who killed him?) you keep all your experince but you can put them into other things, or just build on what you have allready done. You start out young again and play the 3 year cycle.. ( I would like to throw in some Immortal aspects, and a chans to become ancient) mages and charecters effected by other supernatural things might not age etc..  and you just keep playing them, but this is not an option for everyone.. plus some of you I think might Think its cool to play a Linage of Heroes/villans, whos actions you can trace back hundread of years of Game time?? or am I wrong :). Example: Your current charecter is a member of the Traveling Merchants that crosses the land, but 3,5 IRL years ago you were With the Great companions who killed the Black Dragon who plauged the land.. As you pass the place of the battle you can see the standing stones raised in your honor.. and you know that your old charecters name is forever Engraved on them... And your new charecter is his grandchild, and you can turn over to that Youngester( a noob player who has just played a few months) in your group and tell the story about the great battle that your grandfather was a part off... Or IRL it and say 3,5 years ago we killed a dragon here my charecters name is on that  stone, I link you my Linage achivments ;) and hold up your Engraved Family sword and say this is the weapon that did the final blow... 

On a side note I want Players to be able to become guild leaders/kings and Archmages, leaders of the organizations.. But becoming a leader means that you are now killable.. others can murder you and take your charecter out of the game. With great power comes great responcibility. So if you have the guts to lead you must also be ready to face perma death before your 3 year cycle is out... You still get your experince to transfer to your Aprentice/child etc.. and you can plan your revenge.. But If you are the Thives guild leader and get a knife in your back/poisen in your food.. that charecter dies then and there..

I think this would be an awsome game to play.. and it would actually mather what you do... And I dont think its that hard to do ..

I don't think you're going to realize how horrible your ideas are until you actually see them for yourself on a server somewhere, so I'll keep this short.

"All MMOS lack World Progression, Or rather story changing effects."

False. Most mainstream MMOs do.

"3 simple things that would change this."

1: You take away one of the strongest incentives and then put iin place a contrived system for creating incentives.

2: MMOs normally don't let you train everything.

3: That doesn't make raiding any more immersive, it just means a new arbitrary creature is in place of the previous one.

I'm not convinced you've made the case that player-made guilds are a bad idea - just that it would be nice for sufficiently large/important guilds to have a presence in the world and unique objectives.

Remember that any guild-specific questlines dilute developer time.  Instead of logging in to find X hours of work has been spent on the quests you will be playing, you get X/$number_of_guilds. 

Every time someone suggests permanent monuments / permadeath for NPCs killed, I ask them to imagine themselves in the role of one of the great many players who *aren't* part of any of the groups/events so immortalized, rather than fantasizing about being one of the few having their glory being immortalized.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

I don't think you're going to realize how horrible your ideas are until you actually see them for yourself on a server somewhere, so I'll keep this short.

 

"All MMOS lack World Progression, Or rather story changing effects."

False. Most mainstream MMOs do.

 

"3 simple things that would change this."

1: You take away one of the strongest incentives and then put iin place a contrived system for creating incentives.

2: MMOs normally don't let you train everything.

3: That doesn't make raiding any more immersive, it just means a new arbitrary creature is in place of the previous one.

Your derisive, laconic comments are uncalled for and don't contribute to the thread.  And if that vague, inconsiderate counter-argument is all that you were able to come up with, then I would be tempted to call you stupid.

Originally posted by maplestone

I'm not convinced you've made the case that player-made guilds are a bad idea - just that it would be nice for sufficiently large/important guilds to have a presence in the world and unique objectives.

Remember that any guild-specific questlines dilute developer time.  Instead of logging in to find X hours of work has been spent on the quests you will be playing, you get X/$number_of_guilds. 

Every time someone suggests permanent monuments / permadeath for NPCs killed, I ask them to imagine themselves in the role of one of the great many players who *aren't* part of any of the groups/events so immortalized, rather than fantasizing about being one of the few having their glory being immortalized.

 

 

 

 

The idea was that you would try and get about 80% of the playerbase into one of the Premade guilds.. that way everyone get their special something :)... 

For example to cut down on workload you would have to have Mirror guilds.. Say we have 3 Kingdoms, each kingdom host their own little thiefs guild.. They all get 6 Epic quest per year but they get basicly the same kind of quest but maybe Randomized so they arnt doing the same one at the same time... If they kill a boss of some sort you change out the name but the prequests remain the same etc.. Do this for most organisations and you can have say about 40 Uniqe Premade guilds, and about +60 that are modified version of them... 100 guilds of diffrent kinds in total.. In these guilds you have no upper cap on numbers... Then I personaly would like to make about 40 more Unique smaller guilds that have a cap on members for the real hardcore people... These guilds have fewer epic quests but get other benefits... Assassin guilds/spy guilds/Mayors and their staff guilds/religous guild/cabal of necromancers/Vampire Cabals/wearwolf hunting packs.. and other secreat organizations that have other things to deal with then just there epic storylines.. I would say they get about 3 per year.. but other perks should keep the players of those guilds happy..

The main expansions of a game like this is making  new Epic quest content each year... And changing the game world after what quest have been compleated etc...Having a delayed deployment of  2 month cycles for the ordinary guilds and 4 month cycle for the special guilds.

Adding in that you seed Repetative quest through the leadership of the guilds... Example...

The thieves guild leaders can always give out say 10 jobbs... Robbing/pickpocketing a mark/Braking into a Noble/merchant house and steal things etc.. These are repetative but locations change but its the one pickpocket jobb works the same even if it is in another town or city...

Mercanary guilds can hand out Protection jobbs, Boddy guard jobbs, Guarding the manor house jobb, protect the caravan from A-B etc..

Merchant guilds can give out transport jobbs, picking up a shipment from another town, Bribing guards/officals so they dont take tax% etc.. As some of these jobbs might Involve dangours things(roads are not safe from bandits).. You can also put another twist on this and let Merchants make contracts that they can bring to a Mercanary guild, with payment and the players from the Mercenary guild can be hired, and you have added another player to player Interaction... Smuggling drugs into a city you might need the help of the local thiefs guild etc... 

By Linking these Repetative jobbs to other guilds and organizations, you get a real comunity/shared world experince..

Just finding someone from the thiefes guild to start the next step on the quest might be an Adventure just in it self :) if you get what im saying here. And they might refuse or Robb you instead and when you get back and report what happend your Merchant guild leader can contract the assassins guild to kill thier (now killable) guild leader to show them that you dont mess with the merchants guild, because they have gold and can hire REAL killers..

This way one Basic easy programed jobb becomes something totaly Unexpected :)

Developers are lazy and it would take a dedicated team to produce 360 EPIC quests per year.. but I think it can be done... Also I pesonaly think that if people are paying money EACH month, that developers should focus their efforts on creating new content and not sit back and have thier players run around in mouse wheels for gear while they  sit back and do nothing..

You also have to have Ordinary quest etc.. But in this type of game you should not get Experince for compleating quests you get Experince for using your skills, and The grind is going to be a nightmare in the end..  Or you do it like EVE and have training over time.. this Puts the developers in a good control Position when it comes to creating new content.. as they know exacly how far people would have gotten.. I personaly prefer the Train over REAL time method, as it makes balance much easier.. when you creat PVE content..

If you have a skill progression on say Two handed sword.. level range is 1-250 the first 100 levels shouldent be to hard but then you have to get x10 exp per level to 100-150 then its x30 for 150-200 and then its x80 for 200-240 and the last 10 levels are x100.. 

Lets say  you want to be a Two handed wielding, heavy armour using, Bow shooting warrior who will join a mercenary guild... IF you just focus on your warrior skills, for argument sake lets say there are about 30 of them it should take you 1,5-2 years to max them out, I say you can use some sort of perk tree and abilitie Unlocks on the way so you can Specialize him to what you want. Main thing though Hitting max level in a skills Will take some serious dedication... 

As I mentioned before that you die or retire after 3 years, your charecter should be maxed out by that time, this gives you the option to branch out into other fields, so carrers like warrior/mage. Thief/warrior, Thief/assassin, Necromancer/mage etc etc etc you can  combine skills from 2 diffrent paths... or you might wan to go full weapon master and learn how to fight with every weapon in the game and learn every style of combat, dual wielder, spear figther, two handed, bows, shields, all armours, Axes, swords, knifes, Maces etc etc.. all Health perks....

Point is sorry but if you have played the game longer and given it more of your time you will be able to do more and be more then the people who have just started out... Just like In EVE online :). That dosent mean you cant wield a sword as good as your guild master after a 3 months of play time, its just that your guild master can use Every weapon in game, because he has played for 3 years..

Originally posted by blognorg

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

I don't think you're going to realize how horrible your ideas are until you actually see them for yourself on a server somewhere, so I'll keep this short.

 

"All MMOS lack World Progression, Or rather story changing effects."

False. Most mainstream MMOs do.

 

"3 simple things that would change this."

1: You take away one of the strongest incentives and then put iin place a contrived system for creating incentives.

2: MMOs normally don't let you train everything.

3: That doesn't make raiding any more immersive, it just means a new arbitrary creature is in place of the previous one.

Your derisive, laconic comments are uncalled for and don't contribute to the thread.  And if that vague, inconsiderate counter-argument is all that you were able to come up with, then I would be tempted to call you stupid.

Are you saying my replies to his premise and his three fixes are incorrect? Not clear on what you really were contributing with that. His three solutions are built on a false premise and the conclusions themselves in some cases actively work against his goal of 'True Immersion.'

Do you feel they effectively achieve that goal? What are your thoughts on the statement that all MMOs lack world progression? Do you feel they are all static, as well? If so, what would be the top three ways you would go about making the game world more immersive and adding progression to the game world?

As Zlayer presents his preferred version of something as the 'True' or 'Real' version, it is clear he is pretty much set in his views, so I kept my replies short as it did not appear any amount of elaboration would really do much good. I'd really like to read your thoughts on the topic, however. If you rather discuss how I post, please send it in PMs and keep it off the thread.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

I don't think you're going to realize how horrible your ideas are until you actually see them for yourself on a server somewhere, so I'll keep this short.

 

"All MMOS lack World Progression, Or rather story changing effects."

False. Most mainstream MMOs do.

 

"3 simple things that would change this."

1: You take away one of the strongest incentives and then put iin place a contrived system for creating incentives.

2: MMOs normally don't let you train everything.

3: That doesn't make raiding any more immersive, it just means a new arbitrary creature is in place of the previous one.

I dont think you got my post :( when I said RAID this is what a mean by a raid in this game...

As this game would not have player created guilds... Robert( lets call our new player this) has decided to join the Assassins guild, called the "The Silent Blades". To get in he first has to make contact with them... In the Harbour of the city of Newport in a run down Tavern called the Spiders Eye, he has heard that if you tell the Bar man "Blood for Blood and let their souls rest in Darkness" he will let you into the back room for an Interview... Robert takes his Sneaky black Elf to this tavern and speaks the words to the NPC barman who tells him " that to join the Blades he needs to make an offering, 3 corrupted souls for one membership. (we will ofc make this a long and hard quest chain with lots of side quests etc) when its all done Roberts takes his place among hte Silent Blades...  He is taken to their headquarters.. and asked to Introduce himself to the other  members...  There are jobbs to be done and other plotlines to explore.. But before that the The NPC guild leader points to a charter on the wall and says that here are the names of all our known members... Robert looks at it and sees only his own charecters name on it.  He dose a few jobbs and then decides to call it a night and logs of the game.

Hurring home from work and starting up the computer and loging into the game, He spawns in the celler of the Spiders Eye... He takes a look at the roster as he is heading up and sees that their are now 3 other names on the list.  And at the door the NPC guild leader tells him when he passes, " ha the new reqruit did you see that we have gotten a few more members" clicking on the Guild leader brings up a new quest that wasent there before.. "Yes this is a difficult task you need the suport of your guild brothers on this one" Use the whisper orb if you need to contact them.. Roberts heads over to the Whisper orb and sees that 2 of them are online... He contacts them and finds out that they are two Buddies who just joined the organization a few hours ago and have done 2 of the quests that Robert did yeasterday.. and they are just heading back for their reward now... Upon arriving Roberts share this new quest with them, or they can pick it up themselfs.. But before they can head out Another New player/member comes into the Guild hall, and they hear from accross the ROOm the NPC guild leader saying " and be sure to Introduce yourself to your fellow assassins of the guild" The new dude stands their looking around as Robert and his two new guild buddies Emerge from the shadows and Robert tells him " hello there brother we have just the jobb for you" 

Robert and his new guild buddies spend the next week doing jobbs and quests for their guild, some they need to do in groups others they can solo... More members flood into the Guild and at the end of the week they are now up to 30 members. Now the NPC guild leader sends out a letter that he needs to see everyone because he has an Important message. When Robert arrives some of the other members ( that were online when the letter was sent out) are also there. THe NPC guild leader Informs them that A VERY IMPORTANT JOBB has been placed in the guilds hands. It will take everyon to compleat it = FIRST EPIC quest starts.. But to compleat this jobb they need to fine tune their skills and prepare. The guild leader also Informs them that the guild must be at full strenght 50 people to be able to compleat it...  So if they find any worthy people be sure to send them our way... ( everyone of the guild now has the option of giving the starter quest to other players in the game. The quest have a 48 hour time limit on it, and if the new player do not compleat it by then he fails it, the Pool is at 20 right now but drops as soon as someone starts the first part of it).

3 weeks later the guild is at full strenght. It would have gone faster but 3 people did not resub to the game, and robert and the others found their names taken of the guild charter, and 3 contracts for killing them, should they ever show their face in the world again.. dynamic and fun.. If you join a secreat organization there will be consequences if you quit. If these players Ever resub and start playing again, the silent blades will be informed about it, and their charecters can get killed( if they do get killed they transfer their xp to their new charecter they make as usal, but its a fun twist).

Now Coming back to Robert and his fellow assassins. Most of them have now done lots of jobbs for their guild.. But now they can finaly start the first EPIC quest.. This is a very complex thing and it Involves a massive amount of man-hours and labour to be compleated, Lots of side quest and things that have to be done... Interaction with other guilds Like the thieves guild and merchant guild and a special Weapon must be forged by a Superior blacksmith( the only blacksmiths that can become superior are other players) so getting the Nasty dagger for killing the "Dreaded Vampire Count of Castle Evermore" proved to be the hardest part.. 1,5 months later they are done and can now do a JOINT raid on the Castle and kill him. Robert has the highest Knife skills and is chosen to carry the weapon, the others of the guild also agree as he was the first member he should have the Honor of the final blow... ( The Raid on castle Evermore is a two part 25 man Raid objective) When you have done the first part you can do the next part. Nobody can do both parts, and it can be compleated by a smaller group if they are good enough. The guild is given a list and everyone has to pick what part they want to do.. and The players themself have to agree on a time and place after everyone has signed up. There is a chans some members will miss the Event if IRL gets in the way.. But that is life.. when all is said and done they make as many attempts as they need to clear it... But a nasty twist awaits them after they are done

After returning to the guild HQ in glories triumph the players make a horrible discovery... Their guild master has been murderd... he lies dying in the arms of the Tavern keeper.. whit his last breath he Informs the players that this was the work of the Deathskulls.. a rival Assassins guild..(also full of players hehe) PVP action and rivalry Is unlocked... Without a guild leader the Tavern keeper ask the players to all cast a vote on the person they think best suited for the Jobb/and who is willing to take on the burden of Guild leader ( as mentioned before he can now be perma Killed)

Robert gets the most votes and assume the leadership of the guild.... (an old  NPC veteren is brought back out of Retirment) and is apointed as his Steward, and is now the one dealing with new reqruits and Epic Quest seeding.

Also the guild now has the Option of Upgrading the Guilds HQ, They get the  requirements for what is needed. They can Hire a player who is a weapon smith by trade to build a forge and setup shop and make them items ( this comes with perks for that player who becomes a member of the guild, gets blue prints for making thier guild armours and weapons etc) They can make an escape tunnel, if they have the coin, Setup a POSIN labratory were members can brew poisen and conduct experiments) Tables, chests and other accessories can be bought to pimp up the guildhall... The guild can also make a choise to make one of the Dark gods of the land their special protector. And build an alter and chapel chamber in his name inside the HQ(preying here starts a hole new questline, for those of the guild willing to become Truly EVIL) The spiders Eye can also be uppgraded and the members of the guild can run it if they like. If Other players want to get a hold of an assassin it can be good to have some of the boys managing the place, the Tavern keeper preform this duty if nobody is around. Playing dice games and just chilling at the Tavern might actually be something people will do, As I mentioned before you need to eat in this game every 8 hours ( and a place with free food, will probably see atleast one member hanging around in the tavern from time to time).. This list can be added with many more upgrades these are just examples of what can be done...

Long wall of Text but hope you get what Im going with this...

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by blognorg

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

I don't think you're going to realize how horrible your ideas are until you actually see them for yourself on a server somewhere, so I'll keep this short.

 

"All MMOS lack World Progression, Or rather story changing effects."

False. Most mainstream MMOs do.

 

"3 simple things that would change this."

1: You take away one of the strongest incentives and then put iin place a contrived system for creating incentives.

2: MMOs normally don't let you train everything.

3: That doesn't make raiding any more immersive, it just means a new arbitrary creature is in place of the previous one.

Your derisive, laconic comments are uncalled for and don't contribute to the thread.  And if that vague, inconsiderate counter-argument is all that you were able to come up with, then I would be tempted to call you stupid.

Are you saying my replies to his premise and his three fixes are incorrect? Not clear on what you really were contributing with that. His three solutions are built on a false premise and the conclusions themselves in some cases actively work against his goal of 'True Immersion.'

Do you feel they effectively achieve that goal? What are your thoughts on the statement that all MMOs lack world progression? Do you feel they are all static, as well? If so, what would be the top three ways you would go about making the game world more immersive and adding progression to the game world?

 

As Zlayer presents his preferred version of something as the 'True' or 'Real' version, it is clear he is pretty much set in his views, so I kept my replies short as it did not appear any amount of elaboration would really do much good. I'd really like to read your thoughts on the topic, however. If you rather discuss how I post, please send it in PMs and keep it off the thread.

Im not really arguing anything here man... Im just pointing out that you can do some things diffrently if you want to... You might not like my kind of diffrent but, If you can creat something that has a sandbox/themepark mix to it I think you can actaully make an Innovation to a genre that has mostly stagnated for the past 7 years..

Technicly a game like Im describing will be hard to do... If you have say 5 servers each server will look totaly diffrent after 2 years of play time.. Diffrent fraction will have changed diffrent things... On one server The kings guard protected the Vally and its now a peaceful place on another the vally was run over by the bandits and are now a heaven for Thieves and outlawas...

Making new content and changing the game world is awsome in Theory but you really need to be at the top of your game to pull the shit Im asking for off... I think most people both lack the vision and Understanding to make a game like this.. sad but true

Holy walls of text batman!

TL;DR...:P

Come on wall of txt at least making it bit more with linea's and shorten it a little you say hundreds you could have said in 20 words.

I dont think your innovations are not sufficient enough. And your talking themepark here so im not realy intrested, thats means you can ignore my reply:P

I would play a game like the one you described OP, but it's not going to happen because there is more money to be made on themepark MMOs. We would have to change the instant gratification mentality first, which won't happen. A game like the one you described would end up a barren with not enough players to interact with imho.

1: No player made Guilds: Ok so playing with my friends who I game with for years is a bad thing?

2: You can never train everything, you have to take a path and stick to it. Given time you might branch out into diffrent areas..:Ok I can see this some what but games like eve well they already reward players with no lives for shelling out years of subs and create an imbalance in pvp that generally disuedes casual gamers from wanting to pvp in it.

3: Raid Objectives Die and make a significant Impact on the gaming world.: Ok tthis will never work as there would be conflicts if multiple raid parties doing the same bosses at the same time could create a rather nasty error in the game and lead to server crashes....

In my opinion....yes my opinion....It seems you may be more happy playing single player games over mmo..You seem to not want to participate with people on regular basis and seem to not like the set up of mmos...Im not trying to be mean or critiical but all your suggestions are things you generally find in single player games....Not mmo's, nor could they work in mmo's cause there would be people who would exploit the hell out of the things you suggest.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

I don't think you're going to realize how horrible your ideas are until you actually see them for yourself on a server somewhere, so I'll keep this short.

 

"All MMOS lack World Progression, Or rather story changing effects."

False. Most mainstream MMOs do.

 

"3 simple things that would change this."

1: You take away one of the strongest incentives and then put iin place a contrived system for creating incentives.

2: MMOs normally don't let you train everything.

3: That doesn't make raiding any more immersive, it just means a new arbitrary creature is in place of the previous one.

Originally posted by Chivalry1978

1: No player made Guilds: Ok so playing with my friends who I game with for years is a bad thing?

2: You can never train everything, you have to take a path and stick to it. Given time you might branch out into diffrent areas..:Ok I can see this some what but games like eve well they already reward players with no lives for shelling out years of subs and create an imbalance in pvp that generally disuedes casual gamers from wanting to pvp in it.

3: Raid Objectives Die and make a significant Impact on the gaming world.: Ok tthis will never work as there would be conflicts if multiple raid parties doing the same bosses at the same time could create a rather nasty error in the game and lead to server crashes....

 

 

In my opinion....yes my opinion....It seems you may be more happy playing single player games over mmo..You seem to not want to participate with people on regular basis and seem to not like the set up of mmos...Im not trying to be mean or critiical but all your suggestions are things you generally find in single player games....Not mmo's, nor could they work in mmo's cause there would be people who would exploit the hell out of the things you suggest.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

 

Simply put X people do the exact same thing, everyone is in the same static environment, and kill the same foes over and over again.

Take this complaint, combine it with the wall-of-text Silent Blades example, and the problem becomes much more evident: you want to take away players' ability to do what they want, when they want. If they want to log in and do "the exact same thing", you'll force them to do something else.

If I log on and want to craft—oops!—I can't because there's a vital timed quest that requires me to raid with the guild. If I do a basic but awesome group dungeon with good rewards—nope!—can't run it again, that was just one part of the 1.5 month epic quest, all you can do is hope that there's a similar kind of quest in the distant future... and that you're allowed to be in the one group that does it. If I meet someone that I know from outside the game and would like to play with him regularly—bzzt!—I'll be permakill-on-sight to the old guild for leaving them. In fact, you didn't get to choose any of your guildmates. Good luck on getting along great with 30 random strangers.

You're explaining what you see as an epic game experience spanning the course of months, but only because it's exactly what you want to do exactly when you want to do it. You even go so far as to say that people should be forced to log on at a specific date and time: "The players themself have to agree on a time and place after everyone has signed up. There is a chans some members will miss the Event if IRL gets in the way.. But that is life.." Imagine this same so-called epic guild experience but switched around so that everything is terrible for you. The players who join your guild are people you don't like. Their playstyle doesn't fit yours; they're either much too serious or much too casual. You're forced into parties with guild members who shamelessly ninja loot and intentionally get their own party killed. The content that you prefer to do gets taken by other guild members first every time. Now how epic does it sound?