EQ1 still being around is why "WOW killer" is a silly concept.

No game will ever kill WOW.  But if you make a super-polished game with superior gameplay, an awful lot of people will play it.  And eventually, like EQ1, WOW will simply slowly slip out of the picture.

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by kroz318

"How do you kill that which has no life"

OMG!! Are you saying MMORPG game player are immortal in real life?

hehe was a quote from the wow south park episode

No MMO ever made or ever to be made wants to kill WoW. They want to be WoW. They want 12 million people paying them $15 a month to do what most websites do for free. Be online and transfer content.  What do you think costs more to run, Youtube with gigs of video transfer or an MO server aray that redirects P2P traffic?

I'm going to start up a burger chain tommorow but the only way I will make it is if I become the Burger King killer. Would you want to come work for me?

WoW killer is some shit haters started on a forum that is exclusive to forums. The only thing that needs to die is the irrational hate for WoW. Blaming them every time a Dev team fucks up another game. Blaming them every time you get roped in to buying an MMO you really knew you weren't going to like in the first place. Blaming them because you played 150 hrs in your first month and burned out on the next sliced bread.

WoW did good. Gratz to WoW. Many more years Blizzard. Best of luck to you.

Originally posted by Teala

Why does any game have to kill WoW? 

Shhh. No harshing on the irrelevant.

1st of the only one that can kill WoW is blizzard.

2nd if want to build WoW kill you have need the most simple base core good vs evil and alow player to play both side and you also need really good core stroy in base.

For if you have this 2 basic core in bottom you can basic make really good mmo and also it should be unique thing with that i mean world, NPC, monster should be unique and you need to come up with really unique to make combat fun and fast take AoC there combat system is/are unique in way that you as player feel that you are actually part of your char when he do those thing you see on screen.

Both WoW and SWTOR have the simple click the button and lean back in chair and see you char do by itself which is really bored for you are not apart on how your char execute the move you only have move around your char stand still and press button.

Also make PVP and PvE content equally with that i mean you should keep both update and try to even them both out if you char get uber in PvP you nerf him in both PvE and PvP and if char get uber in PvE you nerf him in both PvE and PvP and try to keep the both content update if you add a new dungeons in PvE you add new Battleground in PvP and so on.

1. As others have mentioned, once people have invested into a player character, they want to keep it. Thus killing any established MMO, including WoW, is unlikely.

2. If you want to make a new game, do NOT try to make it a "WoW killer". This will just result into a WoW clone. Instead, at least try to address the problems people have with WoW, such as:

- Overall too low challenge level.

- The game is a race to endgame at which point you do raiding, raiding, raiding. Yawn.

- Raiding gear is hopelessly overpowered, raising the efficiency by factor 10 and more compared to pre-raid gear.

- Old content gets outdated and useless. Players level too fast to see it any more.

- Drastic changes of the classes over the years.

- Missing popular classes such as Bard and Monk.

- Classes that exist are a joke to their class concept (the traditional tank Paladin can serve as pure healer, the traditional offensive mage Druid can operate as ANYTHING, ...)

- Classes do not have clearly defined group tasks. It depends upon their skilling. And reskill is simple and quite cheap. At least Blizzard now gave pure damage dealers more damage than the hybrids which can do anything, but seriously whats the bad idea of having people have a specific kind of playstyle if they play a specific class ? Why cant I know its a tank if I see its a Paladin ?!?!? And know the guy knows how to play their class.

- Realm vs Realm. Even less meaningful because there are only two realms and both have the same classes. If you do RvR, do it the right way, like DAoC did it - at least three realms, and each realm with their own classes. In WoW, RvR mostly limits the race choices of the player. Why cant people choose the race they like and then form player alliances ?

- Race limited classes. Why was that ever a good idea ?

- Ugly comic style graphics. Yeah its a good idea to have simple and low demand graphics, but do they need to be absurd ?

- Cross server interaction, destroying communities.

- Instances. Yes they address the problem people have with solving the same quests. But they also destroy the feeling of living in a MMO.

- Battlegrounds. IMHO not a good idea. Just make Arenas that allow group vs group challenges and you get the same thing without the logical faults.

- Microtransactions.

Beating WoW is like trying to beat Walmart. It cannot be done. Even people who have never played a computer game has heard of WoW.

The only thing to do now is to make something different from WoW. This hasen't really been done yet in a AAA format.

cause for it to be considered a wow killer it has to be a mmorpg!in the mmo world alone?yes wow was beat a lont time ago!

Originally posted by kakasaki

Rule number 1 to making the "WoW" killer:

 

DO NOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE OR PLAY LIKE WoW!!!

I think that's one big fallacy

there is a reason why wow became so popular and it sure as fuck isn't the graphics or sound

it's the game play, the way quest work, the great dungeons along the way, the crafting etc, people like what's familiar and will be more interested into it if it is something they know and understand

call of duty didn't kill medal of honor by being nothing like it, UT didn't beat quake by being nothing like it, it's the reason we are at cod number 8 with minimal changes, it's the reason nintendo can release mario and know it will succed, it's the reason people screamed bloody murder for every thing SC2 changed from SC1 etc etc

Originally posted by LowFlyingHam

I know how to make a WoW killer... don't think about or look at WoW at any point during development, because you're going to fall into the same trap that Rift and TOR fell into... which is mimicing WoW.

rift failed because it didn't grasp what makes WoW popular

it's not the fucking endgame, most people don't raid, I remember reading that only something like 10% of the playerbase beat the first Burning Crusade 10 man raid, yet the other 90% still play and subscribe, despite never seeing a raid

wow became popular due to the rest, the leveling is great from start to finish, it never feels like a grind (although vanilla was a bit grindy for the last few levels), the dungeons are interesting and have some fun bosses with nice mechanics

if your game doesn't provide an interesting leveling experience it's going to fail even if your endgame is made to perfection for the simple reason that people won't even get to the endgame, they will give up sooner

wow clones don't fail because they are like wow, they fail because they don't grasp what makes wow popular in the first place (rift with it's focus on end game, war with it's focus on pvp) or don't have the budget/time to polish the game for the whole leveling experience (AoC is a good example here, with only the first few levels being decent, aion which turned into a grindfest from somewhere aound 25 on)

tor is way to early to call either way

God do some people never learn? There are already two Wowkillers Kotick and Greg Street and it shows. No other game will ever kill a game that is the exception and not the norm.

1. If developers want to get a teeth of the playerbase, first define which audience you want (ie. dedicated players are bored and fucked up with the dumbing down into an hack n slay) so you can easily grab them by making challenging more traditional MMOG instead of a soloplayerlike walk in the park.

2. Stick to you audience there will for sure be all sorts of easymode crybabies asking for dumbing features such as dual spec, automated LFG, quest helper and addons playing the game for them (ie TOR forums). So just ignore them or ban them the first day they are spamming the forums with their easymode crap.

3. No official forums. Face it back in the days they were a good thing now they are used by trolls, crybabies and other questionable human beings so instead of having one official forum let fansites do it, they are often smalleer so handeling the trolls will be easier for them.

4. PvE or PvP focus if you try both you wont please anyone. Either adopt the Everequest 1 model or go the Daoc route.

5. Don't sell yourself to EA or Activision both are horrible horrible motherships not interested in quality and just seeing $ instead of quality.

6. Don't promise things that won't be in for launch and play fair game with your community.

OP this idea could and will never happn I'm for one being thankful for that. After I've left that game big part of it was the scum the community turned into don't wanna play with these kind of people ever again.

Originally posted by Enosh

wow clones don't fail because they are like wow, they fail because they don't grasp what makes wow popular in the first place (rift with it's focus on end game, war with it's focus on pvp) 

War was a victim of its creator's success. the 300,000 or so DAOC vets latched on to WAR thinking it was going to be DAOC 2. even with repeated screamings from Mythic that WAR =/= DAOC. Despite this, you still ended up with a chunk of the playerbase pissed because they didnt get DAOC 2. (people even made absurd calls for a 3rd realm, totally ignoring the fact that Warhammer does not work that way.)

So i would say WAR fell victim more to players who expected a totally different game (even thought they were told ad nauseum otherwise) as opposed to WAR wanting to be WoW.

Originally posted by Swollen_Beef

Originally posted by Enosh

wow clones don't fail because they are like wow, they fail because they don't grasp what makes wow popular in the first place (rift with it's focus on end game, war with it's focus on pvp) 

 

War was a victim of its creator's success. the 300,000 or so DAOC vets latched on to WAR thinking it was going to be DAOC 2. even with repeated screamings from Mythic that WAR =/= DAOC. Despite this, you still ended up with a chunk of the playerbase pissed because they didnt get DAOC 2. (people even made absurd calls for a 3rd realm, totally ignoring the fact that Warhammer does not work that way.)

So i would say WAR fell victim more to players who expected a totally different game (even thought they were told ad nauseum otherwise) as opposed to WAR wanting to be WoW.

Same can be said for Everquest 2. People wanted EQ 1 with better graphics all they got was an instanced dumbed down EQ 1 and rushed out game.

Originally posted by Enosh

Originally posted by kakasaki

Rule number 1 to making the "WoW" killer:

 

DO NOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE OR PLAY LIKE WoW!!!

I think that's one big fallacy

there is a reason why wow became so popular and it sure as fuck isn't the graphics or sound

it's the game play, the way quest work, the great dungeons along the way, the crafting etc, people like what's familiar and will be more interested into it if it is something they know and understand

call of duty didn't kill medal of honor by being nothing like it, UT didn't beat quake by being nothing like it, it's the reason we are at cod number 8 with minimal changes, it's the reason nintendo can release mario and know it will succed, it's the reason people screamed bloody murder for every thing SC2 changed from SC1 etc etc

 

While gameplay did help WoW achieve the success it now has, a bigger factor was the time and enviroment in which WoW released. While sharring many of the features of EQ1, WoW made the game more casual friendly and accesible to a larger audience and more importantly, WoW was the first to do so. The MMO enviroemnt is no longer like this. The field is crowded with WoW like games and people have had their share of the WoW "formula". To again capture the kind of "magic" WoW created, you are going to have to create something that feels different from WoW. 

I have friends that still play WoW and beleive it or not, the reason is because of investment.  People just need to come to terms that it's a..............wait for it............GAME.  As for the phrase "WoW killer", we will never see it.  Thats not to say WoW wont some day die as all things do.  I suspect WoW will someday loss its sub base to multiple games both MMOs and the like.  I beleive the genre is large enough for all three types (Theampark, Sandbox and Hybrids).  Devs just need to make them right and by that I meane make then for their respective player base.  Theamparker are happy with hand holding, good graphics but not so good that they hinder their PCs.  Sandboxers like realism, content, etc and of course Hybrid enjoy a mix.

For me it's a Hybrid.  I played WoW for four years and because it was my first MMO, I'm a bit drawn to the hand holding of quests giving me something to do.  Now however, I no longer play WoW (simply because, well - it's become a numbers game now and I no longer enjoy it.  I raid to get better gear and I need better gear so I can raid...lol).

Anyway, A game that has both Theampark qualities like quest(s), large player base, etc (WoW).  Sandbox qualities like no phasing/instancing (I really dislike this), open world(s),  able to change the world (WURM).   Other: open pvp (but in specific lands) or against specific factions (EVE, FE),  Combat like Vindicus but with more than two abilities..lol.  And of course the big one Crafting.

What can I say about crafting?  It seem to alway make or break a game because not many want to admit they want crafting; yet, most do it.  Crafting has to be a major aspec of a long term mmo.  Anything else will fail.  Just look around,  every game with less than great crafting has either failed or is going F2P (P2W) - (with the exception of WoW which like I said, people just hang out because of investment).  Figure out a way to combine Wurm Online (craft EVERYTHING, somewhat realistic),  FE (again craft everthing but with modern items), EVE (make items discoverable, research), Vangaurd (being able to creat various qualities of items based on mats, skills).

And of course the dev has to make it so that the person not wanting to craft can get these items with level of ease.

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Originally posted by Quizzical
The way to make a WoW killer is to make a Stuxnet-style virus that targets Blizzard's servers.  Because nothing else except Blizzard itself can kill WoW in the near future.  < \sarcasm>

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Originally posted by Quizzical
More seriously, games don't kill other games.

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To the thread:
Over 10 million players think WoW is just fine. They aren't going to be leaving anytime soon, I think. As someone else stated, WoW was a one-time deal being at the right place at the right time. I don't foresee that happening again anytime soon. Then again, my "future-sight" has been on the fritz for, oh... forever!

"WoW-killer" is a pipedream. Just a wish and a hope.

Pretty sure this thread proves people do not actually read anything the OP writes lol

Why do people want to kill WoW?

Did it do something wrong,  other than give people satisfaction and fun?

...is it suddenly 'wrong' to make a shitload of money from your own ideas?

I smell socialism.

Wow ruined the genre for one...just like LOL killed mobas and cod killed fps games.