Originally posted by DarVashiel

Originally posted by Sector13

Originally posted by Astropuyo

It's funny. I'm an old school mmorpg player.

I'm loving ToR.

Can't see what the issue is. It's almost creepy how you people attack every mmo in existance.

You really do give devs mixed signals and you wonder why the genre is so messed up?

I highly doubt it will be anything of a failure.

If anything if you dislike it, tor isn't for you. Don't get crazy emotional into the subject.

It's like people debating pepsi to coke. It is non-sense.

Don't see what being an 'old school mmorpg player' has to do with anything. If anything it's the people who have played WoW the most that are tired of games like this, not people who started with UO or EQ. If you can't see the issue then obviously you don't understand the other side of the argument which makes your opinion a little pointless towards an actual discussion. People have their opinions and they will express them whether you like them or not. People will claim that TOR is the greatest MMO ever made and I have a right to post my opinion against it just as much if I post that it will fail and they post that it wont. It's not non-sense just cause you don't understand it. That is just ignorance.

So because the guy loves the game, he's wrong and your right. heres my opinion, thats ignorant...

[Mod Edit]

Just enjoy your mmo's as they come. Sandboxes are great and they are fun. But how many of you "old schoolers" are playing Vanguard? That's as sandy as she gets right now. It's a great game and it throws you to the wolves.

Oddly enough people like this are not playing these games. UO is stil around I still have my sub (Whatever I enjoy my tower and decorating it, call me a simmer) I still log into a EQ classic here and there.

Meridian was my favorite personally. Pity they never updated it.

Originally posted by Astropuyo

 

[Mod Edit]

Just enjoy your mmo's as they come. Sandboxes are great and they are fun. But how many of you "old schoolers" are playing Vanguard? That's as sandy as she gets right now. It's a great game and it throws you to the wolves.

 

Oddly enough people like this are not playing these games. UO is stil around I still have my sub (Whatever I enjoy my tower and decorating it, call me a simmer) I still log into a EQ classic here and there.

Meridian was my favorite personally. Pity they never updated it.

I think it has to do with the fact they are perceived to be 'ignored'.

The past 7 years of WoW has shown everyone that people will pay for a WoW-like game more than 'sandbox' ones.

And the game studios are just responding to that, ignoring the niche sandbox guys.

There are sandbox games coming out still but it isn't as big as themeparks and unless people's taste change, it'll remain that way for a long time.

Nothing wrong with the above, it is just supply-demand / free market stuff; working as intended.

Don't expect people who are not educated on business, marketing, advertising, and economics to understand.

You are right, he wasn't just raving mad - he was also dead wrong.

Huge success, very innovative - crafting and companions are genius!  VO is the tip of the iceberg.

Easily the best MMO I have ever played.  Cancel my wow and rift subs.

Some people are never happy - I honestly pity them, anyway, done pooping, time to get back on.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Astropuyo

 

What I enjoyed is he went for my Xfire bait. I don't get folks like that. Ignorance is being unlearned in a certain degree of knowledge. Ignorance is exaclty what this guy/girl rolled out.

Just enjoy your mmo's as they come. Sandboxes are great and they are fun. But how many of you "old schoolers" are playing Vanguard? That's as sandy as she gets right now. It's a great game and it throws you to the wolves.

 

Oddly enough people like this are not playing these games. UO is stil around I still have my sub (Whatever I enjoy my tower and decorating it, call me a simmer) I still log into a EQ classic here and there.

Meridian was my favorite personally. Pity they never updated it.

I think it has to do with the fact they are perceived to be 'ignored'.

The past 7 years of WoW has shown everyone that people will pay for a WoW-like game more than 'sandbox' ones.

And the game studios are just responding to that, ignoring the niche sandbox guys.

There are sandbox games coming out still but it isn't as big as themeparks and unless people's taste change, it'll remain that way for a long time.

 

Nothing wrong with the above, it is just supply-demand / free market stuff; working as intended.

Actually...I would say that the past 7 years have shown that people will pay for "WoW," and specifically WoW, more than another game.  I mean...look at the facts.

The MMO market in general has grown explosively over the past 7 years.  And yet nearly every themepark MMO in exception for one has only had their subs go one place...down, in North America.  When the market is growing, and yet every game except for one is declining, what does that tell you?

Just check out these charts:  http://mmodata.blogspot.com/.  The only themepark game to demonstrate actual growth other than WoW is Aion, and that's only because it's primarily big in Asia.  AoC, Rift, WAR, they all start big and then have a meteoric drop.

In fact, one of the only MMORPGs to demonstrate constant, steady growth in NA other than WoW is Eve.

What this tells me is that games that try to imitate WoW, never live up to the real thing.  When the market is growing, and you're not, that's not good.

Originally posted by Astropuyo

Originally posted by Sector13

Originally posted by Astropuyo

It's funny. I'm an old school mmorpg player.

I'm loving ToR.

Can't see what the issue is. It's almost creepy how you people attack every mmo in existance.

You really do give devs mixed signals and you wonder why the genre is so messed up?

I highly doubt it will be anything of a failure.

If anything if you dislike it, tor isn't for you. Don't get crazy emotional into the subject.

It's like people debating pepsi to coke. It is non-sense.

Don't see what being an 'old school mmorpg player' has to do with anything. If anything it's the people who have played WoW the most that are tired of games like this, not people who started with UO or EQ. If you can't see the issue then obviously you don't understand the other side of the argument which makes your opinion a little pointless towards an actual discussion. People have their opinions and they will express them whether you like them or not. People will claim that TOR is the greatest MMO ever made and I have a right to post my opinion against it just as much if I post that it will fail and they post that it wont. It's not non-sense just cause you don't understand it. That is just ignorance.

Ignorance is your lack of understanding of this post. You have failed at the very fundamental you stated I lack. Thusly your double standard is almost enjoyable.

I started UO, Baja 1999.

Then Legends until 2003

The only issue I see is peoples lack of resolve to accept change. Change is good.

 

You took the highly defensive route here, if not offensive.

Allow me to counter (you've no choice as this isn't real time)

I as an old school mmorpger always wanted more. Quests, choice, the ability to see the world without being ganked by 34 roxxor friends at the moongates.

I wanted a game where I could enjoy my very limited time as I have a full time job that requires running a company that oddly enough sells digital distribution..hehe.

You clearly do not understand that not all of us enjoyed getting face ganked every 50 minutes. Sure most of us eventually learned to fight back (I <3 pvp by the way. I just don't appreciate my halberd of vanquishing being ganked by Penilord555)

Where was the claim it was the greatest? I stated it's a damn good game and not only do I stick to that I put my money where my mouth is.

Your ingorance in choice of automatically type classing me as a wow player for my 5 years ago xfire usage (which I leave strictly so I can hand you people your asses) is the best part.

I'm Corwin. I <3 ToR

Really? You are talking about my "Ingorance"  when you didn't even read my post properly. I said that you being an old school MMOer didn't matter and said the people who would be tired of the game would most likely be WoW veterans not old schoolers, so I wasn't talking about you. I also didn't claim it was you who said about the game being the greatest, it was another post which I mentioned "people will claim" again, not talking about you. So, I didn't class you as any type of player other then what you claimed for yourself. Next time learn to read properly before accusing others of ignorance.

Originally posted by Astropuyo

Originally posted by DarVashiel

Originally posted by Sector13

Originally posted by Astropuyo

It's funny. I'm an old school mmorpg player.

I'm loving ToR.

Can't see what the issue is. It's almost creepy how you people attack every mmo in existance.

You really do give devs mixed signals and you wonder why the genre is so messed up?

I highly doubt it will be anything of a failure.

If anything if you dislike it, tor isn't for you. Don't get crazy emotional into the subject.

It's like people debating pepsi to coke. It is non-sense.

Don't see what being an 'old school mmorpg player' has to do with anything. If anything it's the people who have played WoW the most that are tired of games like this, not people who started with UO or EQ. If you can't see the issue then obviously you don't understand the other side of the argument which makes your opinion a little pointless towards an actual discussion. People have their opinions and they will express them whether you like them or not. People will claim that TOR is the greatest MMO ever made and I have a right to post my opinion against it just as much if I post that it will fail and they post that it wont. It's not non-sense just cause you don't understand it. That is just ignorance.

So because the guy loves the game, he's wrong and your right. heres my opinion, thats ignorant...

What I enjoyed is he went for my Xfire bait. I don't get folks like that. Ignorance is being unlearned in a certain degree of knowledge. Ignorance is exaclty what this guy/girl rolled out.

Just enjoy your mmo's as they come. Sandboxes are great and they are fun. But how many of you "old schoolers" are playing Vanguard? That's as sandy as she gets right now. It's a great game and it throws you to the wolves.

 

Oddly enough people like this are not playing these games. UO is stil around I still have my sub (Whatever I enjoy my tower and decorating it, call me a simmer) I still log into a EQ classic here and there.

Meridian was my favorite personally. Pity they never updated it.

I went for your xfire bait? I didn't even look at it. Xfire is meaningless and thinking people would be 'baited' by it just shows your lack of forethought. Another sign that your ignorance is so bad that you don't even know when you screwed up. So, nice failing again. Again, learn to read properly before posting and looking less like an idiot. You are definatly a facepalm worthy person.

Originally posted by fony

 

imo, things don't look to be changing for EA.  when will they get it right?

 

 

 lol :D

EAlouse was obviously wrong because this game is not a failure by any means, there are millions of people already playing it. He was also wrong about the development team only proud of "the sound" which is also incorrect. The games best feature is story, and that was said millions of times in preveiws. Anyone who really believes all that nonsense coming off of someone who claims to have worked on the development team would have to have the brain of a chimp. Anyone can pose as anyone on the internet it's easy too do. It's just amazing to me how gullible you people are who believe all this crap, but yet again I shouldnt be surprised because when I see the American media on T.V it's no wonder why people are so uneducated these days.

Originally posted by pharazonic

Theodwulf is a wise person. I'm sure they would have a hearty chuckle reading some of the things posted here.

 

As for me? I think I will just sit back and watch it unfold. I have made my predictions numerous times ~:)

 

How I love being right!

Originally posted by pharazonic

Theodwulf is a wise person. I'm sure they would have a hearty chuckle reading some of the things posted here.

 

As for me? I think I will just sit back and watch it unfold. I have made my predictions numerous times ~:)

 

How I love being right!

 PLZ PLZ PLZ gtfo with all that noise same predictions can and are made about EVERY mmo AoC,WAR,Rift.etc etc

Here let me made a generalized prediction ready for it?  GW2 isn't gonna live up to its hype,GW2 is gonna make alot of people unhappy and be alot like other mmogs blah blah blah blah mark it down though alot of ppl are gonna hate gw2 rolls eyes.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by pharazonic

Theodwulf is a wise person. I'm sure they would have a hearty chuckle reading some of the things posted here.

 

As for me? I think I will just sit back and watch it unfold. I have made my predictions numerous times ~:)

 

How I love being right!

 

I have to agree. It's sad really. The game was simply not finished. It had tons of money, but blew it. Maybe it won't pull a Warhammer move. But it does seem done for. Already 6days in, and this wall of reality kicks in.

and how exactly have they blew it with ToR? I think you need to get back into reality, and out of your delusions of grandure almost every server is full, and there are already over a million people playing it. I think you need to get your facts strait. This game is doing great, and it will continue doing so for the next 4 - 5 years

good luck with your halfcocked theorys though

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

Actually...I would say that the past 7 years have shown that people will pay for "WoW," and specifically WoW, more than another game.  I mean...look at the facts.

The MMO market in general has grown explosively over the past 7 years.  And yet nearly every themepark MMO in exception for one has only had their subs go one place...down, in North America.  When the market is growing, and yet every game except for one is declining, what does that tell you?

Just check out these charts:  http://mmodata.blogspot.com/.  The only themepark game to demonstrate actual growth other than WoW is Aion, and that's only because it's primarily big in Asia.  AoC, Rift, WAR, they all start big and then have a meteoric drop.

In fact, one of the only MMORPGs to demonstrate constant, steady growth in NA other than WoW is Eve.

What this tells me is that games that try to imitate WoW, never live up to the real thing.  When the market is growing, and you're not, that's not good.

MMO's always have turn-over.

WoW has a 30% retain percentage. The current king of  'number of subs' has a 30% retain percentage. Think about it.

And RIFT showed once and for all a well-polished Themepark game will be financially successful. A new studio with a new IP is doing amazingly well financially. What does that tell other companies?

Originally posted by trash656

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by pharazonic

Theodwulf is a wise person. I'm sure they would have a hearty chuckle reading some of the things posted here.

 

As for me? I think I will just sit back and watch it unfold. I have made my predictions numerous times ~:)

 

How I love being right!

 

I have to agree. It's sad really. The game was simply not finished. It had tons of money, but blew it. Maybe it won't pull a Warhammer move. But it does seem done for. Already 6days in, and this wall of reality kicks in.

and how exactly have they blew it with ToR? I think you need to get back into reality, and out of your delusions of grandure almost every server is full, and there are already over a million people playing it. I think you need to get your facts strait. This game is doing great, and it will continue doing so for the next 4 - 5 years

 

good luck with your halfcocked theorys though

Sounds like someone is forgetting about every MMO launch post WoW. Even a small amount of belief in possible underperformance should be justified but you seem to be leaning way too far to the other side that has no real justification byond hope or to a greater extent delusion.

Whatever helps the whiners sleep at night.  

I'm sure EA is crying all the way to the bank.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Whatever helps the whiners sleep at night.  

 

I'm sure EA is crying all the way to the bank.

It's hasn't even been a week since the official release date. If anything, they should be on their toes.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Whatever helps the whiners sleep at night.  

 

I'm sure EA is crying all the way to the bank.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/star-wars-the-old-republic/news/6312400/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-cost-ea-80-million-analyst

So according to the analyst if TOR would have sold 2 million boxes EA's cut would have been 60 million, they sold over a million but most likely didnt get near 1.5 million boxes sold but lets give em that anyways and tally it up to 45 million box sale profits.

Also noted in the link is that TOR would have to retain 1 million subs for a six month time span to generate a cut of 30 million.

Theoretically if the best case scenario plays out and TOR manages to hold a million subs till may 2012, EA would have recouped 75 million bucks from a game where the lowest ESTIMATED cost for development is 80 million bucks...as far as the estimates go you can find articles with estimates ranging from 80 million to 130+ million so i just went with the lowest.

EDIT: I didnt add the marketing cost coming right outta EA's pockets...dont recall seeing any marketing for it so it sliped my mind but you can tack 20 million on the deficit....

Who is this EA Louse and why should i care?

Originally posted by youngkg

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Whatever helps the whiners sleep at night.  

 

I'm sure EA is crying all the way to the bank.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/star-wars-the-old-republic/news/6312400/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-cost-ea-80-million-analyst

 

So according to the analyst if TOR would have sold 2 million boxes EA's cut would have been 60 million, they sold over a million but most likely didnt get near 1.5 million boxes sold but lets give em that anyways and tally it up to 45 million box sale profits.

 

Also noted in the link is that TOR would have to retain 1 million subs for a six month time span to generate a cut of 30 million.

 

Theoretically if the best case scenario plays out and TOR manages to hold a million subs till may 2012, EA would have recouped 75 million bucks from a game where the lowest ESTIMATED cost for development is 80 million bucks...as far as the estimates go you can find articles with estimates ranging from 80 million to 130+ million so i just went with the lowest.

 

EDIT: I didnt add the marketing cost coming right outta EA's pockets...dont recall seeing any marketing for it so it sliped my mind but you can tack 20 million on the deficit....

At the end of the day, EA's public statement was simply "The game has exceeded our expectations".  The game has also only been out for 7 days.   Since when did the total first months sales stop after 7 days?

Theres no cut off period.. SWTOR doesn't stop selling the game after a week and people don't magically stop buying it.  The 1 million mark was reached the 3rd day of release... 

Apart from that, all I'm seeing is what analysts say or "theoretically" ....  we don't know exactly how well SWTOR did so far.. and if you want to dismiss what EA says about the game "exceeding expectations" like the OP did... fine, have at it... but all of this theorycrafting will actually get you no where.  

The only chance we have at seeing how well the game actually has done and will do, will be when EA speaks to investors, or when they willfully release information.  Analysts will drop numbers left and right,  but EA really is the only one who knows...     so,  if they aren't happy with the outcome so far.... well.. they sure fooled me.

1. Who is EAlouse?

2. Who is Theodwulf?

3. Why should I consider their opinion?

4. I love SWTOR!

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by onthestick

Originally posted by sammyeli

Originally posted by onthestick

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

 

It's pretty credible that he mentioned that sound and VO are the only changes to an otherwise same-game MMO. I didn't even mention anything, anywhere, regarding the rest of his open letter, just the information regarding the VO and sound (and that's because he's right). I would agree that, if this letter was written after the fact, that the sound and VO information did come directly from Bioware's news or information, in which case still doesn't solve the massive problem by making a game that replicates others, but with improved sound.

Again it is an opinion not a fact. Same game is such a vague term because i find plenty of things different in SWTOR. As long as other persons view points confirm your own..it is credible otherwise it is not. Credbility means facts..and his blog had none.

and what are these different things that you have plenty of?

 

Just asking, because people say these things and never mention what it is really.

Never mentioned? i mentioned it like million times but i will do it again... different things for me or what i like to call non standard features... modding system, crew skills, companion system, change in appearance on basis of light/dark choices, V.O has already been mentioned. These are some things just from top of my head which make SWTOR quite a different game for me.

I've actually found that just giving a laundry list of features when trying to prove that one game is different from another in inadequate.  Why?  Because it may not reflect the actual play experience of the game.

For example, SWTOR could (hypothetical) be different from WoW in every single possible way when considering the crafting system.  But this really wouldn't mean that much because the vast majority of players spend most of their time questing/PvPing/dungeons etc.

You really have to compare games on a basis of what players spend the most time doing.  And when I play SWTOR I do questing/BGs/Dungeons.  When I play WoW I do questing/BGs/Dungeons.

And when you compare these features from SWTOR to the equivalents in WoW...they are pretty similar.