Can we stop using the  term "competitive pvp" for "instanced pvp" or "group vs group pvp".

Most instanced pvp matchs are adhoc or pugs... i fail to see how that is competitve .

No..competitive pvp is the name Arenanet have given it, and I think it fits fine. There will be hot-joinable pvp, but Arenanet want to make it an e-sport and there will be no random teams at that level.

The term ArenaNet has given it is Structured PVP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP

It's competitive because everybody enters it at max level with access to all skills.

It's also competitive because of the tournaments, the first three of which require teams.  From the link above...

Tournaments come in the following flavors:

• Pickup: single-elimination tournaments wait for 8 teams to join before starting. This tournament has 3 rounds of eliminations, with winners receiving qualifier points.
• Monthly: Require an amount of qualifier points from the pickup tournaments to join.
• Yearly: These grand tournaments feature the winners from the monthly tournaments slugging it out for the right to call themselves the best PvP players of the year.
• Player-Run: customized by players, these tournaments allow for great flexibility and unique bragging rights.

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Can we stop using the  term "competitive pvp" for "instanced pvp" or "group vs group pvp".

Most instanced pvp matchs are adhoc or pugs... i fail to see how that is competitve .

Some mmorpgs call themselve revolutionary and the best... doesn't mean i have to follow suit.

Lets be honest their "competitive pvp" are battlegrounds. But they want to market them otherwise.

I am not one to let others change my thinking or the dialog with rhetoric and marketing. So i ask agian can we just call it instanced pvp or BGs.

If not thats fine, everyone is free to do as they wish; just as i am free to encourage people to reject such marketing ploys.

Cali59 pretty much answered your question OP. How you make it sound, you also do not think basketball, football, soccer, etc., are also not competitive. Normal, everyday people play those games in their own little areas. Also, they will have major tournies with players fighting for prizes and such. That pretty much defines something being competitive in my book.

Well I must first ask have you played Gears of War 2-3? And if so do you think it's competitive?

If not, say so then I'll post you a link of some pvp in Gears of War 2 and then ask you do you think it's competitive.

Originally posted by cyress8

Cali59 pretty much answered your question OP. How you make it sound, you also do not think basketball, football, soccer, etc., are also not competitive. Normal, everyday people play those games in their own little areas. Also, they will have major tournies with players fighting for prizes and such. That pretty much defines something being competitive in my book.

So if i am outside playing some B with my bros downing a few brews its competitive?

That answer to this is obviously no.

See it could be competitive, but for vast majority of the "competitive pvp" matches will be pugs just doing w/e.

Thus competitive pvp is not really anything different than a BG system wow currently has.

Lots of things are competitive or can be. Heck you can be a competitive eater. Does that mean every night when you sit down you ask your family are you ready for the competition ? No, once again rhetorical, lets be honest this a re-branding of an long existing game structure.

To use another posters example

"

Well I must first ask have you played Gears of War 2-3? And if so do you think it's competitive?

If not, say so then I'll post you a link of some pvp in Gears of War 2 and then ask you do you think it's competitive."

What happens if the dev of Gears said their next gears game is now an Competitive person shooter  (CPS).

They changed nothing really from previous fps structures that allowed them to be competitive, just re-branded existing game-play/system with maybe more ladder display options.

Would you be like yeah we should call it CPS or .. yeah its just an FPS that is attempting to create hype / interest via marketing (it still can be competitve however)?

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Can we stop using the  term "competitive pvp" for "instanced pvp" or "group vs group pvp".

Most instanced pvp matchs are adhoc or pugs... i fail to see how that is competitve .

No.

By my understanding of things, "competitive" means that players are put of equal ground, where neither side is unfairly advantaged by numbers, level, or skill level.  It is for that reason that players are ranked and matched with players of relatively equal skill in competitive games (well, the ones worth mentioning anyways).  The hot-joinable or pug format isn't competitive, and yet it is still instanced.  It is supposed to more relaxed.

I hope that answers your question.

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Originally posted by cyress8

Cali59 pretty much answered your question OP. How you make it sound, you also do not think basketball, football, soccer, etc., are also not competitive. Normal, everyday people play those games in their own little areas. Also, they will have major tournies with players fighting for prizes and such. That pretty much defines something being competitive in my book.

So if i am outside playing some B with my bros downing a few brews its competitive?

That answer to this is obviously no.

See it could be competitive, but for vast majority of the "competitive pvp" matches will be pugs just doing w/e.

Thus competitive pvp is not really anything different than a BG system wow currently has.

Lots of things are competitive or can be. Heck you can be a competitive eater. Does that mean every night when you sit down you ask your family are you ready for the competition ? No, once again rhetorical, lets be honest this a re-branding of an long existing game structure.

To use another posters example

"

Well I must first ask have you played Gears of War 2-3? And if so do you think it's competitive?

If not, say so then I'll post you a link of some pvp in Gears of War 2 and then ask you do you think it's competitive."

 

What happens if the dev of Gears said their next gears game is now an Competitive person shooter  (CPS).

They changed nothing really from previous fps structures that allowed them to be competitive, just re-branded existing game-play/system with maybe more ladder display options.

Would you be like yeah we should call it CPS or .. yeah its just an FPS that is attempting to create hype / interest via marketing (it still can be competitve however)?

So you telling me or trying to tell me Gears of War 2-3 doesn't have competitive pvp? That's all I want to know.

I also must ask what's competitive mean to you?

Nah, "competitive PvP" tells me more about the PvP than just "instanced PvP". It implies that PvP is played on equal terms: Teams have equal numbers, level and gear. Player skill matters. Instanced PvP tells me only that the PvP is instanced.

Warhammer Online's scenarios are a good example of instanced PvP whereas Guild Wars' PvP is competitive.

GW1 fans are already familiar with the term and know what it means.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Nah, "competitive PvP" tells me more about the PvP than just "instanced PvP". It implies that PvP is played on equal terms: Teams have equal numbers, level and gear. Player skill matters. Instanced PvP tells me only that the PvP is instanced.

Warhammer Online's scenarios are a good example of instanced PvP whereas Guild Wars' PvP is competitive.

GW1 fans are already familiar with the term and know what it means.

 

I figured that's what competive is in anything, mainly in sports, shit  lol I don't think the stuff you wear technically matters :/ It's why I am failing to see what the OP means, right now it just seems he doesn't like the fact they achieved an actual competitive PVP, I don't have to even favor GW 2 in order to think this as I thopught it was that even before I played and liked GW 2 lol.

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Quirhid

Nah, "competitive PvP" tells me more about the PvP than just "instanced PvP". It implies that PvP is played on equal terms: Teams have equal numbers, level and gear. Player skill matters. Instanced PvP tells me only that the PvP is instanced.

Warhammer Online's scenarios are a good example of instanced PvP whereas Guild Wars' PvP is competitive.

GW1 fans are already familiar with the term and know what it means.

 

I figured that's what competive is in anything, mainly in sports, shit  lol I don't think the stuff you wear technically matters :/ It's why I am failing to see what the OP means, right now it just seems he doesn't like the fact they achieved an actual competitive PVP, I don't have to even favor GW 2 in order to think this as I thopught it was that even before I played and liked GW 2 lol.

Its obvious the majorrity of GW2 fans disagrees with the OP wether or not he has vallid reasons. Its far more important that everyone uses the same word for competitive PvP, and that is "competitive PvP".  So if we are talking about competitive PvP in GW2 everyone is talking about the same thing.

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Originally posted by cyress8

Cali59 pretty much answered your question OP. How you make it sound, you also do not think basketball, football, soccer, etc., are also not competitive. Normal, everyday people play those games in their own little areas. Also, they will have major tournies with players fighting for prizes and such. That pretty much defines something being competitive in my book.

So if i am outside playing some B with my bros downing a few brews its competitive?

That answer to this is obviously no.

See it could be competitive, but for vast majority of the "competitive pvp" matches will be pugs just doing w/e.

Thus competitive pvp is not really anything different than a BG system wow currently has.

Lots of things are competitive or can be. Heck you can be a competitive eater. Does that mean every night when you sit down you ask your family are you ready for the competition ? No, once again rhetorical, lets be honest this a re-branding of an long existing game structure.

To use another posters example

"

Well I must first ask have you played Gears of War 2-3? And if so do you think it's competitive?

If not, say so then I'll post you a link of some pvp in Gears of War 2 and then ask you do you think it's competitive."

 

What happens if the dev of Gears said their next gears game is now an Competitive person shooter  (CPS).

They changed nothing really from previous fps structures that allowed them to be competitive, just re-branded existing game-play/system with maybe more ladder display options.

Would you be like yeah we should call it CPS or .. yeah its just an FPS that is attempting to create hype / interest via marketing (it still can be competitve however)?

 My answer was that it's not called Competitive PVP, it's called Structured PVP.  I linked the wiki, but also on their main website PVP page http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/pvp-overview/ they describe Pickup and Competitive as being the two sides of Structured PVP.

That should be enough to address the point of the thread, but I went on to detail why it might be called Competitive PVP even if it is casual.

One of the reasons was because it puts the players on an equal power threshold.  To use your basketball analogy, no you playing pickup ball with your friends wouldn't necessarily be called competitve (though it could, actually).  But what if instead, when you walked on the court you were each turned into Michael Jordan?  The game would then be decided by something other than physical ability (better tactics, better decisions, playing harder, whatever).

But I think you bring up a valid point.  Calling it competitive PVP, unless talking about tournaments specifically is technically incorrect.  People should use the more accurate "Structured PVP" when discussing it in general.

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by Quirhid

Nah, "competitive PvP" tells me more about the PvP than just "instanced PvP". It implies that PvP is played on equal terms: Teams have equal numbers, level and gear. Player skill matters. Instanced PvP tells me only that the PvP is instanced.

Warhammer Online's scenarios are a good example of instanced PvP whereas Guild Wars' PvP is competitive.

GW1 fans are already familiar with the term and know what it means.

 

I figured that's what competive is in anything, mainly in sports, shit  lol I don't think the stuff you wear technically matters :/ It's why I am failing to see what the OP means, right now it just seems he doesn't like the fact they achieved an actual competitive PVP, I don't have to even favor GW 2 in order to think this as I thopught it was that even before I played and liked GW 2 lol.

If the stuff you waer doesn't matter than wearing different stuff doesn't matter.

See you want it one way but not the other.

"I figured that's what competive is in anything, mainly in sports"

Do B ball teams come with the same players, all with the same skills? No

Are they still competitive yes. Thus you prove your own points of the differnce between instanced pvp from say wow and instanced pvp from say GW2 false. As both are still competitive (thats to say as you have said B -ball is competitive or sports in general)

Originally posted by cali59

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Originally posted by cyress8

Cali59 pretty much answered your question OP. How you make it sound, you also do not think basketball, football, soccer, etc., are also not competitive. Normal, everyday people play those games in their own little areas. Also, they will have major tournies with players fighting for prizes and such. That pretty much defines something being competitive in my book.

So if i am outside playing some B with my bros downing a few brews its competitive?

That answer to this is obviously no.

See it could be competitive, but for vast majority of the "competitive pvp" matches will be pugs just doing w/e.

Thus competitive pvp is not really anything different than a BG system wow currently has.

Lots of things are competitive or can be. Heck you can be a competitive eater. Does that mean every night when you sit down you ask your family are you ready for the competition ? No, once again rhetorical, lets be honest this a re-branding of an long existing game structure.

To use another posters example

"

Well I must first ask have you played Gears of War 2-3? And if so do you think it's competitive?

If not, say so then I'll post you a link of some pvp in Gears of War 2 and then ask you do you think it's competitive."

 

What happens if the dev of Gears said their next gears game is now an Competitive person shooter  (CPS).

They changed nothing really from previous fps structures that allowed them to be competitive, just re-branded existing game-play/system with maybe more ladder display options.

Would you be like yeah we should call it CPS or .. yeah its just an FPS that is attempting to create hype / interest via marketing (it still can be competitve however)?

 My answer was that it's not called Competitive PVP, it's called Structured PVP.  I linked the wiki, but also on their main website PVP page http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/pvp-overview/ they describe Pickup and Competitive as being the two sides of Structured PVP.

That should be enough to address the point of the thread, but I went on to detail why it might be called Competitive PVP even if it is casual.

One of the reasons was because it puts the players on an equal power threshold.  To use your basketball analogy, no you playing pickup ball with your friends wouldn't necessarily be called competitve (though it could, actually).  But what if instead, when you walked on the court you were each turned into Michael Jordan?  The game would then be decided by something other than physical ability (better tactics, better decisions, playing harder, whatever).

But I think you bring up a valid point.  Calling it competitive PVP, unless talking about tournaments specifically is technically incorrect.  People should use the more accurate "Structured PVP" when discussing it in general.

Yeah thank you this is totaly what i missed at typing that out, DOH.

I have no issue people calling the tournament or "ranked group/team" play competitve. but everyone is callign the instanced pvp on these forums competitive, when most of the hot join instanced pvp will not be of the "competitive" nature. 

In otherwords its ranked.

(Still, i don't find the equip you wear a giant issue, apart from that fact you'll not need to grind for it Cheer [as pretty much everyone ends up with the same stuff if your serious]).

But to be fair:

"The term ArenaNet has given it is Structured PVP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP

It's competitive because everybody enters it at max level with access to all skills.

It's also competitive because of the tournaments, the first three of which require teams.  From the link above..."

Just as matter of record you did call structured pvp competitive which it will not be for the most part.

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Some mmorpgs call themselve revolutionary and the best... doesn't mean i have to follow suit.

Lets be honest their "competitive pvp" are battlegrounds. But they want to market them otherwise.

I am not one to let others change my thinking or the dialog with rhetoric and marketing. So i ask agian can we just call it instanced pvp or BGs.

If not thats fine, everyone is free to do as they wish; just as i am free to encourage people to reject such marketing ploys.

No. Calling it Battlegrounds is insulting to everyone who played GvG in GW1.

If structured PvP in GW2 is comparable to structured PvP in Guild Wars, then I am definately going to call it competetive PvP.

Comparing it to the usual, run of the mill, gear-dependant instanced PvP would be completely wrong.

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Can we stop using the  term "competitive pvp" for "instanced pvp" or "group vs group pvp".

Most instanced pvp matchs are adhoc or pugs... i fail to see how that is competitve .

Nope, we can't. Go play GW1 and you will see just how competitive instanced pvp is. And no, they are not battlegrounds. And no you can't just get two of your bros play for 30 min and get anywhere.

Competitive - it meas everyone play on equal terms and every has a chance to prove their better than their opponents. 

Also you can't randomly join GvG (the competitive instanced PvP) of GW. So you had to make a team. 

Can we also stop using the term Sandbox too please?