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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Something that I have noticed

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112 posts found
  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1058

12/23/11 7:40:41 PM#61
All failed games because of vastly different reasons. You think the things listed above were responsie for their lack of success?
  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4647

12/23/11 7:42:39 PM#62
Originally posted by stealthbr
Originally posted by fundayz

Something that I have noticed.... is how willing fanboys are to turn a blind eye to some of the glaring problems/lacking features of the game:

 

1. Linear progression. Only one zone per level range seriously hampers the replayability of the game; sure, class quests are different but those are only like 25% of the leveling content. Even if I level a different class I will still be doing most of the exact same content.

2. Awful character creation/customization. 2008 games had better character creation systems, and the fact that there is no way to customize your gear aside from orange items is mindboggling. Also, no way to alter appearance after character creation.

3. Over sharding of zones. It was a good idea because nobody like fighting for quest kills but they took to an extreme, you barely see any other players.

4. Lack of ambience. No ambient sound, mobs and NPCs are rarely animated/pathed outside of cutscenes, lack of day/night cycles. All of this (plus #3) results in lifeless zones that seem more like a movie set peppered with props rather than a living world (you know that little thing MMOs are known for?).

5. Subpar graphics and animation. Characters are stiffly animated, high res textures are note even available.

6. Terrible optimization. Even people with monster computers get sttuters, shaders kill performance, PvP zones cause massive performance drops for many players (even with good computers).

7. Lack of competitive PvP. No Group vs Group warzones or ranked PvP modes = nothing but casual PvP.

8. Outdated quest mechanics. Sure, they voice quest text but it doesn´t hide the fact that all non-class quests are "Kill X, Fetch Y". Pathetic considering WoW had more quest variety than this in 2007.

9. Subpar UI with no customizability. Galactic Trade, nuff said.

10. No addons or macros. MMO staples since early 2000´s

11. Boring combat. No real strategy required, just stand still and unload your skills while your opponent does the same. Kiting is as deep as it gets.

12. No real LFG tools. Having fun sitting in the Fleet spamming instead of actually playing the game.

13. Lack of guild features. No point in having a guild, it´s jsut a second friends list.

 

And what never ceases to amaze me is that some haters don't realize that most of these things are not considered to be major issues if an issue at all by many. Just give it a rest.


First of all I have to agree with fundayz. Many of these are very important, core issues to MMOs.

As for stealthbr, this is exactly the type of statement that baffles most intelligent gamers. You are basically brushing off CORE features (not just to TOR, but to any MMO that has been released in the passed decade), as irrelevant. It really reads like "stop hating, this one has lightsabers" instead of an actual, coherent thought.

The game is fun, but there's just a lot missing. And I'm sorry, but if you compare it to ANY other AAA MMO that has been released in the passed decade, you should notice this.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15315

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/23/11 7:43:26 PM#63
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by stealthbr

 

And what never ceases to amaze me is that some haters don't realize that most of these things are not considered to be major issues if an issue at all by many. Just give it a rest. You want non-linear progression, go play Darkfall or something. The realm of AAA MMO's does not suit you well.

speak for yourself most of those are very big deal to me and obviously the person who wrote them and I'm going to guess we are not the only two people that play these games that care about this stuff.. especially number 11 since most of the time playing this games revolves around combat

Why would you not say the same to the guy who spawned the above post? He's the one trying to project his own gripes, as gripes everyone should have.

I agree with a lot of his gripes, but I wouldn't begin to think everyone should.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

12/23/11 7:45:07 PM#64
Originally posted by stealthbr
All failed games because of vastly different reasons. You think the things listed above were responsie for their lack of success?

in some ways yes and in some no.. but for swtor to be a long term success I feel some major issues do need to be addressed in particular end game play.. I really don't see why year after year MMO developers fail at the end game content game.. this one will feel it more than others since you can reach end game faster than most others..

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  alakram

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 2227

12/23/11 7:45:11 PM#65
Originally posted by i_own_u
Originally posted by Perramas

I like the game and I will be playing for a while. Having said that if you do not like something why would you spends days doing it?

I completly understand that, but it just seems odd that they aren't even giving an effort into trying to like the game. It is almost like their mind is already made up before they even start playing it.

That truly happens a lot. Not everybody knows how to really try a game.

-=AlaKraM=-
Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
My Lord of the Rings Gallery

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

12/23/11 7:45:54 PM#66
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by stealthbr

 

And what never ceases to amaze me is that some haters don't realize that most of these things are not considered to be major issues if an issue at all by many. Just give it a rest. You want non-linear progression, go play Darkfall or something. The realm of AAA MMO's does not suit you well.

speak for yourself most of those are very big deal to me and obviously the person who wrote them and I'm going to guess we are not the only two people that play these games that care about this stuff.. especially number 11 since most of the time playing this games revolves around combat

Why would you not say the same to the guy who spawned the above post? He's the one trying to project his own gripes, as gripes everyone should have.

i would of but I agree with his points so he isnt just speaking for himself.. I'm sure many others agree as well

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15315

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/23/11 7:51:52 PM#67
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by stealthbr

 

And what never ceases to amaze me is that some haters don't realize that most of these things are not considered to be major issues if an issue at all by many. Just give it a rest. You want non-linear progression, go play Darkfall or something. The realm of AAA MMO's does not suit you well.

speak for yourself most of those are very big deal to me and obviously the person who wrote them and I'm going to guess we are not the only two people that play these games that care about this stuff.. especially number 11 since most of the time playing this games revolves around combat

Why would you not say the same to the guy who spawned the above post? He's the one trying to project his own gripes, as gripes everyone should have.

i would of but I agree with his points so he isnt just speaking for himself.. I'm sure many others agree as well

I also agree with some of his points, but that's not the point. He wrote that under the premise if you don't agree you're a fanboi, that's the problem with many posters such as him.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

12/23/11 7:54:31 PM#68
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by stealthbr

 

And what never ceases to amaze me is that some haters don't realize that most of these things are not considered to be major issues if an issue at all by many. Just give it a rest. You want non-linear progression, go play Darkfall or something. The realm of AAA MMO's does not suit you well.

speak for yourself most of those are very big deal to me and obviously the person who wrote them and I'm going to guess we are not the only two people that play these games that care about this stuff.. especially number 11 since most of the time playing this games revolves around combat

Why would you not say the same to the guy who spawned the above post? He's the one trying to project his own gripes, as gripes everyone should have.

i would of but I agree with his points so he isnt just speaking for himself.. I'm sure many others agree as well

I also agree with some of his points, but that's not the point. He wrote that under the premise if you don't agree you're a fanboi, that's the problem with many posters such as him.

i see what you are saying and agree but then you have people who say just because these issue are a big deal to you, you are a complete hater and just here to troll

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15315

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/23/11 7:58:18 PM#69
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by Distopia
 

I also agree with some of his points, but that's not the point. He wrote that under the premise if you don't agree you're a fanboi, that's the problem with many posters such as him.

i see what you are saying and agree but then you have people who say just because these issue are a big deal to you, you are a complete hater and just here to troll

OF course, it's the cycle that posts like that spawn, it's all the same thing. You could even say that about the OP's topic. Even though I may agree certain people hardly give a game chance, and then act as though their word is the final word. Bringing it up isn't going to spawn a good discussion.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7431

"Really officer, they're herbs."

12/23/11 8:04:39 PM#70
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by stealthbr

 

And what never ceases to amaze me is that some haters don't realize that most of these things are not considered to be major issues if an issue at all by many. Just give it a rest. You want non-linear progression, go play Darkfall or something. The realm of AAA MMO's does not suit you well.

speak for yourself most of those are very big deal to me and obviously the person who wrote them and I'm going to guess we are not the only two people that play these games that care about this stuff.. especially number 11 since most of the time playing this games revolves around combat

Exactly...because that is why there ahve been numerous threads on these very topics on the official forums, not many, but a poo ton!  These things do matter to many people.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15315

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/23/11 8:06:34 PM#71
Originally posted by Teala

speak for yourself most of those are very big deal to me and obviously the person who wrote them and I'm going to guess we are not the only two people that play these games that care about this stuff.. especially number 11 since most of the time playing this games revolves around combat

Exactly...because that is why there ahve been numerous threads on these very topics on the official forums, not many, but a poo ton!  These things do matter to many people.

That doesn't change the fact the opposite is also true.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

12/23/11 8:07:31 PM#72
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Teala

speak for yourself most of those are very big deal to me and obviously the person who wrote them and I'm going to guess we are not the only two people that play these games that care about this stuff.. especially number 11 since most of the time playing this games revolves around combat

Exactly...because that is why there ahve been numerous threads on these very topics on the official forums, not many, but a poo ton!  These things do matter to many people.

That doesn't change the fact the opposite is also true.

yup and in about 3 to 6 months we will so which side is the minority

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15315

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/23/11 8:09:01 PM#73
Originally posted by sanosukex
 

yup and in about 3 to 6 months we will so which side is the minority

That's really not important to me, but if I were to guess the number who don't like the game will be greater than those who do.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4647

12/23/11 8:32:00 PM#74
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by Distopia
 

I also agree with some of his points, but that's not the point. He wrote that under the premise if you don't agree you're a fanboi, that's the problem with many posters such as him.

i see what you are saying and agree but then you have people who say just because these issue are a big deal to you, you are a complete hater and just here to troll

OF course, it's the cycle that posts like that spawn, it's all the same thing. You could even say that about the OP's topic. Even though I may agree certain people hardly give a game chance, and then act as though their word is the final word. Bringing it up isn't going to spawn a good discussion.

This whole topic is kind of a tricky thing. Many of the points presented are pretty core issues. They are things that have now become staple features of the MMO and make playing easier, more accessible, and more enjoyable. By labelling players who don't agree fanboys, he does open himself up to a flame war, but that doesn't make his point any less valid.

The amusing this (and this is probably part of his reasoning), is that MMOs were getting criticized for the same issues before TOR came out, but now that it's released it's magically 'okay' and people who still don't think it's okay are now 'just haters'.

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

12/23/11 8:36:39 PM#75
Originally posted by aesperus

The amusing this (and this is probably part of his reasoning), is that MMOs were getting criticized for the same issues before TOR came out, but now that it's released it's magically 'okay' and people who still don't think it's okay are now 'just haters'.

this is a huge point.. I see many issues pop up that have been talked about for years and so many people here just say either it will be added eventually or it doesn't matter to them.. obviously these things have been issues for years and why bioware decided to not listen to several of them is beyond me...

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15315

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/23/11 8:44:35 PM#76
Originally posted by aesperus
 

This whole topic is kind of a tricky thing. Many of the points presented are pretty core issues. They are things that have now become staple features of the MMO and make playing easier, more accessible, and more enjoyable. By labelling players who don't agree fanboys, he does open himself up to a flame war, but that doesn't make his point any less valid.

The amusing this (and this is probably part of his reasoning), is that MMOs were getting criticized for the same issues before TOR came out, but now that it's released it's magically 'okay' and people who still don't think it's okay are now 'just haters'.

I agree to an extent, but you have to realize those who complained about those features may be different people than those who don't care about them, the internet is a big place afterall.

As for Fundayz, I got the impression that he wanted to start a flame war. Maybe that's just me though.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

12/23/11 8:44:41 PM#77
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by aesperus

The amusing this (and this is probably part of his reasoning), is that MMOs were getting criticized for the same issues before TOR came out, but now that it's released it's magically 'okay' and people who still don't think it's okay are now 'just haters'.

this is a huge point.. I see many issues pop up that have been talked about for years and so many people here just say either it will be added eventually or it doesn't matter to them.. obviously these things have been issues for years and why bioware decided to not listen to several of them is beyond me...

THIS, so much this.  This is why so many of us are frustrated.

I've seen people defend TOR for so many ridiculous reasons...especially in the area of BGs where I find it to be pretty lacking.  My favorite argument that people make is that since TOR is a real "RPG," it doesn't have to be "fair" or "balanced" in PvP like other games.  And it doesn't need to offer things like "dual spec" because it doesn't make sense that your character could just switch his skills.  It's all about the "story" and "character development," everything else should matter less.

These arguments would be mildy valid if it wasn't for the fact that SWTOR already has so many unrealistic conceits from copying the WoW model.  I mean, if I have to hit a dude in a t-shirt 30 times with a LIGHTSABER to kill him, then all bets are off.

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  Distopia

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Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15315

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/23/11 8:52:29 PM#78
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by sanosukex
 

THIS, so much this.  This is why so many of us are frustrated.

I've seen people defend TOR for so many ridiculous reasons...especially in the area of BGs where I find it to be pretty lacking.  My favorite argument that people make is that since TOR is a real "RPG," it doesn't have to be "fair" or "balanced" in PvP like other games.  And it doesn't need to offer things like "dual spec" because it doesn't make sense that your character could just switch his skills.  It's all about the "story" and "character development," everything else should matter less.

These arguments would be mildy valid if it wasn't for the fact that SWTOR already has so many unrealistic conceits from copying the WoW model.  I mean, if I have to hit a dude in a t-shirt 30 times with a LIGHTSABER to kill him, then all bets are off.

Many do not expect balance in an MMO, at least when it comes to class v class or faction v faction. I certainly don't our guild has always preferred the underdog side anyway, more PVP to be found.

If you're complaining about the system in place that levels you up for PVP, I agree, yet really don't care as I won't be doing BG's anyway.

Why would a game need to offer dual spec? I understand wanting the option, yet don't understand demanding the option.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

12/23/11 8:56:42 PM#79
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by sanosukex
 

THIS, so much this.  This is why so many of us are frustrated.

I've seen people defend TOR for so many ridiculous reasons...especially in the area of BGs where I find it to be pretty lacking.  My favorite argument that people make is that since TOR is a real "RPG," it doesn't have to be "fair" or "balanced" in PvP like other games.  And it doesn't need to offer things like "dual spec" because it doesn't make sense that your character could just switch his skills.  It's all about the "story" and "character development," everything else should matter less.

These arguments would be mildy valid if it wasn't for the fact that SWTOR already has so many unrealistic conceits from copying the WoW model.  I mean, if I have to hit a dude in a t-shirt 30 times with a LIGHTSABER to kill him, then all bets are off.

Many do not expect balance in an MMO, at least when it comes to class v class or faction v faction. I certainly don't our guild has always preferred the underdog side anyway, more PVP to be found.

If you're complaining about the system in place that levels you up for PVP, I agree, yet really don't care as I won't be doing BG's anyway.

Why would a game need to offer dual spec? I understand wanting the option, yet don't understand demanding the option.

 

Basically just expectations.

SWTOR has talent trees, most modern games with talent trees (or something like them) allow you to switch between them so you  can play different roles effectively with one character.  It gives you more variety of play, and people have begun to (rightly) expect this option.

On a practical level, dual specs also make it MUCH easier to find a healer for dungeons and crap.  Most healers don't like being specced in heal while they solo because it's inefficient, and respeccing can be expensive.

EDIT:  And as for balance...I'm sure "many" don't expect balance, but "many" do expect balance as well :).  I mean, no one likes to play a gimped class ESPECIALLY in PvP.  Imbalances are typically the root of issues like "FOTM" classes.

Actually, I've never talked to a person that did a lot of PvP and didn't care about balance.

DOUBLE EDIT:

ANother thing I wanted to add, is that this is why I think it's dangerous for a dev to make their game too similar to WoW.  It opens it up to comparison with EVERY aspect of WoW, and if the new game falls short in any field, the players won't be happy.

Dual spec is a great example of this.  It's only an issue because SWTOR has a similar talent tree setup to WoW.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15315

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/23/11 8:59:07 PM#80
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by sanosukex
 

THIS, so much this.  This is why so many of us are frustrated.

I've seen people defend TOR for so many ridiculous reasons...especially in the area of BGs where I find it to be pretty lacking.  My favorite argument that people make is that since TOR is a real "RPG," it doesn't have to be "fair" or "balanced" in PvP like other games.  And it doesn't need to offer things like "dual spec" because it doesn't make sense that your character could just switch his skills.  It's all about the "story" and "character development," everything else should matter less.

These arguments would be mildy valid if it wasn't for the fact that SWTOR already has so many unrealistic conceits from copying the WoW model.  I mean, if I have to hit a dude in a t-shirt 30 times with a LIGHTSABER to kill him, then all bets are off.

Many do not expect balance in an MMO, at least when it comes to class v class or faction v faction. I certainly don't our guild has always preferred the underdog side anyway, more PVP to be found.

If you're complaining about the system in place that levels you up for PVP, I agree, yet really don't care as I won't be doing BG's anyway.

Why would a game need to offer dual spec? I understand wanting the option, yet don't understand demanding the option.

 

Basically just expectations.

SWTOR has talent trees, most modern games with talent trees (or something like them) allow you to switch between them so you  can play different roles effectively with one character.  It gives you more variety of play, and people have begun to (rightly) expect this option.

On a practical level, dual specs also make it MUCH easier to find a healer for dungeons and crap.  Most healers don't like being specced in heal while they solo because it's inefficient, and respeccing can be expensive.

I guess that makes sense, you'll have to forgive me I'm a little unfamiliar with Themepark nuances and normalities.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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