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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Class Balance Is Terribad

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132 posts found
  bobfish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1623

12/22/11 7:50:02 AM#81
Originally posted by SanHor

Is there a class that could stand on its own without having to rely on companion all the time?

Some can do it better than others, like Commando or Mercenary, but none are designed to work without companions.

  Ragemaster

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/04
Posts: 133

12/22/11 7:51:10 AM#82

I realized early on that companions are absolutely VITAL for succesful PVE. As a Sith Juggernaught, who specced in the DPS tree, I soon learned Vette was a vital companion. Even in her crappy gear with quest greens she rivaled my DPS speced tank class who is using orange modified armor/weapons.

One thing i have not experiemented with is giving my companions better gear, as credits are in short supply and most of the gear I have been putting on my actual character. Ill see if i can change that. Also I am now experimenting with my second companion, not counting the droid, The healer quinn might actually be more useful to me then vette, which is unfortanate as i like the alien chick personality better then the stoic military guy.

But yeah, if your not utilizing your companion your doing it wrong.

ragemaster9999 Xfire Miniprofile
  bobfish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1623

12/22/11 7:59:56 AM#83
Originally posted by Ragemaster

I realized early on that companions are absolutely VITAL for succesful PVE. As a Sith Juggernaught, who specced in the DPS tree, I soon learned Vette was a vital companion. Even in her crappy gear with quest greens she rivaled my DPS speced tank class who is using orange modified armor/weapons.

One thing i have not experiemented with is giving my companions better gear, as credits are in short supply and most of the gear I have been putting on my actual character. Ill see if i can change that. Also I am now experimenting with my second companion, not counting the droid, The healer quinn might actually be more useful to me then vette, which is unfortanate as i like the alien chick personality better then the stoic military guy.

But yeah, if your not utilizing your companion your doing it wrong.

Keep them geared up, credits will flow more freely after 20. Also presence stat improves your companions, so keep an eye out for anything that improves that (datacrons, etc).

  User Deleted
12/22/11 9:07:31 AM#84
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by face30
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by jerlot65
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

Wait! are people seriously suggesting that you should kite with your melee class?? If you have to play your class in a manor that's completely contrary to it's intended design thats sort of suggest that something seriously wrong with the class...

 

 

Um, you can kite in melee.  Hit him and kite until your cooldoans are active againa nd hit him again, then kite some more.  Are you seriously saying becuase melee can kite there is something wrong with the game?  I call it a breath of fresh air when playing melee.

 

Back on topic.  i level a merc, an operative, a juggernaut, and assassin all to mid 30's and been having fun with all four in pvp.  i dont really see any over/under power with any of them.,  I can tell you thought like the above paragraph, melee has some nice starts to do (especially in pvp), that doesnt require you only to chase mindlessly people around hope to whack them with your sword a few times.  Again, breath of fresh air!

No, I'm saying if a melee class has to depend on kiting to complete class quest there is something seriously wrong with the class.

Hmm, not going the direction of an argument , but seriously ,using the proper companion is a big plus, trying to toe to toe an elite with you're a dps class and not a tank class....is in no way showing lack of balance. A guardian with a dps companion, toe to toe all you want, not the reverse.

Not being argumentative but the dev's are aware of the issues with the Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight and it's subclasses, they have serious issues which the devs are working on, the Jugg/Guards have a update in the wing. If the devs themselves admit that the class is broken, then it's broken. No if and buts about it.

It's possible I am wrong here........can you link me the post,I can't seem to find it, I've never seen it and would love to throw my input in that thread

Thanks in advance, probably won't be on here for a couple hours

  vtravi

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/25/08
Posts: 222

12/22/11 9:12:07 AM#85

I laugh, in every game people complain about class balance. I have played most MMO's and never really see all this unbalance stuff, but that is just me. One of these days a company is gonna say "fuck it we are just making one class!" But people would still say it is unbalanced, cause the unbalanced part is usually just the persons skill level

  Ragemaster

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/04
Posts: 133

12/22/11 9:46:10 AM#86

What exactly is wrong with Sith Juggernaughts? Im playing a juggernaught DPS spec ( far right tree, for forgot the name) and I absolutely DESTROY people in huttball. Thats using the balanced combat form and not putting tank/guard on anyone. If i had a pocket healer I would use guard and play a more defensive role but most of the pvp seems to be random scrub zergs so I go for maximum kills and gankage with my jugger.

The only thing I truely lament about the juggernaught is lack of a good throwback CC, I have a PBAOE snare and alot of saber moves but no channel cc and no way to knockback people, which is great in hutball for knocking them off pillars/into traps ect. I usually come out very high in the damage charts, not #1 but usually a few places under. The pvp defenetly reminds me of warhammer online, which is a good thing, as tanks/healers and DPS all must work together to succeed, unlike games of old which were mostly about burst dps and everything else be damned.

ragemaster9999 Xfire Miniprofile
  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 603

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

2/01/12 6:57:05 PM#87

Personally all BS about being a, 'bad player', aside in some instances Super does have a point, the issue however is many fold.

 

How do I know this? Well I have three characters one at 37, and two at 39.  The 37 is a Sniper and the 39's are Jedi Guradian and Sith Marauder respectively.

 

The Sith Marauder I've had a far easier time with the class quests then the Guardian.  The Sniper has been a complete doddle.

I think this may be for a couple of reason:

1. The companions play a part, as a Guardian you pretty much have to use Doc, who you don't get to Balmorra, that's around mid 30's.  Sith's go to Balmorra low 20's so get a healer much early making tougher mobs easier. 

2. Some of the class quests are just basically harder then other classes.  As Super elluded to, Tatoonie is a nightmare for Jedi, one quest I personally died on about 8 times and thats blowing cooldowns/stims.  In comparison the Sith's route was relatively easy..oh and don't start and the quest after Alderran, I almost quit the game trying to do that. 

3. Lag is an issue, like I say if there is lag timing when to use cooldowns becomes problematic, ( how many times have you seen your character with a third of it's health left, lag slightly...then dead? Happens more then I'd like on my Jedi, had a nightmare on Captain Jess on Quesh with some random dots out of nowhere..dead).

 

So I think the issue for some players has many parts to it, I actually don't think it's an easy thing to fix.  Do they decrease the mobs strength in class quests? Fine, but what about the other quests Jedi have difficulty and other classes have no trouble with? Buff the class on both sides? How would that work out endgame pvpv/pve?

 

A tough one to call to be sure...

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  ScoutMastr

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/06
Posts: 140

2/01/12 11:58:43 PM#88

I am now a level 50 Sentinel, but I haven't completed my story arc (I'm about at the 46-47 level of the story I think). I purposefully outlevelled my story because I was struggling waaaay too much with the harder mobs as I climbed the combat tree...it helped a little, but I think my bigger problem  is gear. From what I've been reading, these melee classes are very gear dependant, and unfortunately I'm always several levels above the gear that drops, or is rewarded by completing missions. I PVP, but I suck so bad at it I never worry about "PVP Gear"...I don't even know the difference between PVP gear and PVE, so all of my gear is regular PVE--it's orange for the most part, but my mods aren't all maxed out for my level, even in green.

 

So, that's my mission now--get all level 50 mods for me and my companions, even if they're green mods...I'm broke, so it might take a few days...in the meantime I'll just keep on PVPing until I'm ready to return to the story.

 

From what I hear, Watchman is better for levelling, but it didn't interest me--I figured the "combat" tree would be more useful since this game is 99.9% combat, but hey, what do I know? I just saw that the watchman tree was more about dot's, and I wasn't feeling that. One thing that aggravates me more than anything about fighting with my character, are the long animations--especially when it's a stuttering animation--my char will start, and then restart what seems like 2 or 3 times before it actually hits the fricken mob...it's annoying especially when I see my health dropping like a rock--I'm like "HIT HIM ALREADY!!!"

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1101

2/02/12 1:49:38 AM#89

This is the best balanced MMO ever released!

I think the only problem we've seen is the warrior classes don't get their CC's till later in the level range.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3191

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

2/02/12 1:56:43 AM#90


Originally posted by ArEf
Yeaaaah... The class balance is awful.
marauders are so underpowered it's unfunny.

I did great as a marauder, Top 3 dps and top 5 kills per warzone. Managed to hold my own in objectives too.

I didnt play all the classes but it might just be case of really connecting with your character to see all the tools they have.



TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Fennris

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/07
Posts: 273

2/02/12 2:14:45 AM#91

All of the good sentinels/marauders I have played with @50 are gone from my server.  They've either re-rolled or stopped playing.  I'm not running into them in WZs or Ilum or chat/who/friend lists.  Most of the guardians/juggernauts have, too, but they're being replaced at a decent pace by new 50s.  In a given WZ its getting rare for me to see a Sent/Marauder.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4142

Trolls will be ignored

2/02/12 2:17:26 AM#92
Originally posted by ArEf

Yeaaaah... The class balance is awful.

Sentinel / marauders are so underpowered it's unfunny. They can barely complete (and, in some cases, CANNOT complete) their class quests because of how squishy they are for a melee class. In all fairness, the juggernaut / guardian is also hopelessly underpowered.

Compare that with sniper / gunslinger (which I recently switched to) and it's just... light and day. You're a medium armour (like the sentinel/marauder) wearer but you have cover which provides a lot of range defence and you have range attacks and you do massive burst damage. Take down elites etc with ease, and most of the time you don't have to be in cover!

Of course, say this on the main forums and you get called a noob that doesn't know how to play. ._.

Anyone else got beef about class balance?

I've had no problem completing my quests with the juggernaut. Don't know what your issue with it is unless you're not keeping you and your companion's gear and stats up to date. For me it was much more simple than the Sith Assasin in the deception tree. Try rolling that one sometime. Then again I don't want an easy mode game.

 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Isawa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

2/02/12 2:19:40 AM#93
Originally posted by Tamanous

Glad you like sniper.

The operative actually makes a sniper look weak however. I solo 2+ heroics where my bud with his same level sniper just shakes his head and waits for me to help him as he dies in the doorway when solo.

That said I am reserving all judgement until end game. There will be balance patches like all mmo's get, especially after release.

Ya, the classes with a healing spec can make any of the other classes look weak, especially when you take Heroics into account. Also any class with a nice any target cc can do 2+ heroics much easier than one without. Sage lvl 40 + experience versus (hardly ever used the major stun) my Sniper lvl 30. For my sniper though, I did take on 2 lvl 26 Elites plus a lvl 26 Strong while at 31, not too shabby...did the 2+ heriocs with him.

  ScoutMastr

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/06
Posts: 140

2/02/12 2:43:28 AM#94
Originally posted by eluldor
Originally posted by Tamanous

Glad you like sniper.

The operative actually makes a sniper look weak however. I solo 2+ heroics where my bud with his same level sniper just shakes his head and waits for me to help him as he dies in the doorway when solo.

That said I am reserving all judgement until end game. There will be balance patches like all mmo's get, especially after release.

Ya, the classes with a healing spec can make any of the other classes look weak, especially when you take Heroics into account. Also any class with a nice any target cc can do 2+ heroics much easier than one without. Sage lvl 40 + experience versus (hardly ever used the major stun) my Sniper lvl 30. For my sniper though, I did take on 2 lvl 26 Elites plus a lvl 26 Strong while at 31, not too shabby...did the 2+ heriocs with him.

seriously? you took on 2 elites with a strong and you won? I can barely win against one elite with my sentinel solo--If I die too often, I'll try using every companion until I accidentally win.

 

I did solo a champion droid on Hoth once though...I think it was a champion level anyway. Did it with my healing companion, and for some reason, he did an excellent job keeping me alive...I guess because there weren't any adds of any kind to attack him.

  Isawa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

2/02/12 2:57:50 AM#95
Originally posted by ScoutMastr
Originally posted by eluldor
Originally posted by Tamanous

Ya, the classes with a healing spec can make any of the other classes look weak, especially when you take Heroics into account. Also any class with a nice any target cc can do 2+ heroics much easier than one without. Sage lvl 40 + experience versus (hardly ever used the major stun) my Sniper lvl 30. For my sniper though, I did take on 2 lvl 26 Elites plus a lvl 26 Strong while at 31, not too shabby...did the 2+ heriocs with him.

seriously? you took on 2 elites with a strong and you won? I can barely win against one elite with my sentinel solo--If I die too often, I'll try using every companion until I accidentally win.

I did solo a champion droid on Hoth once though...I think it was a champion level anyway. Did it with my healing companion, and for some reason, he did an excellent job keeping me alive...I guess because there weren't any adds of any kind to attack him.

That was like a one time perfect combat moment for me. Mobs started out attacking me, when I got low on health, one elite was almost dead, then I had companion aggro all (my companion has 3 orange armors and an orange weapon), finished them off with just me standing. (edited since I remembered my companion died, then I turned the corner and was hit by three more heroic grade mobs and got wasted...)

Earlier I was fighting one elite and two strongs, and could kill 2/3 of them and then die or run and lose aggro, I guess the practice / failure may have helped me.

I have always taken on champions with my Sage :P

  eHug

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 201

2/02/12 2:31:31 PM#96
Originally posted by Tamanous

Glad you like sniper.

 

The operative actually makes a sniper look weak however. I solo 2+ heroics where my bud with his same level sniper just shakes his head and waits for me to help him as he dies in the doorway when solo.

You got to teach me how you do that =)

I was playing an Ops while waiting for Bioware/EA to fix the broken class quest on my first Sith Sorc and found it terribly weak compared to the Sorc gameplay. Since Bioware wasn't able to fix the issues that kept me from playing I rerolled another Sith Sorc and skipped most H2/H4 quests, thus was even lower level. Still I could mow through the mobs with ease where I failed with the higher level Ops.

  thexrated

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 1379

2/02/12 8:46:38 PM#97
Originally posted by ArEf

Yeaaaah... The class balance is awful.

Sentinel / marauders are so underpowered it's unfunny. They can barely complete (and, in some cases, CANNOT complete) their class quests because of how squishy they are for a melee class. In all fairness, the juggernaut / guardian is also hopelessly underpowered.

Compare that with sniper / gunslinger (which I recently switched to) and it's just... light and day. You're a medium armour (like the sentinel/marauder) wearer but you have cover which provides a lot of range defence and you have range attacks and you do massive burst damage. Take down elites etc with ease, and most of the time you don't have to be in cover!

Of course, say this on the main forums and you get called a noob that doesn't know how to play. ._.

Anyone else got beef about class balance?

Well, warrior classes are very gear dependant and also need strategy to complete those class quests. I did wipe on them few times with juggernaut, but could do them with a bit of thinking.

Juggernaut DPS perhaps could see some improvement for PvE, but for PvP they are more than fine both tanking and damage wise.

Havent' played sniper so can't comment on them, but most classes have their quirks. So far the easiest levelling experience has been with sorcerer and mercenary for me.

"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  ChromeBallz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/31/04
Posts: 272

2/03/12 3:18:59 AM#98

TBC resto druids.

/thread

Playing: EVE, TSW
Played (more than 1 month): WoW, Tera, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL, GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH, STO
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  gw1228

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/10
Posts: 94

2/03/12 3:53:49 AM#99

Mythic an EA company couldn't balance PVP on Warhammer Online

Bioware a company that knows little about PVP will struggle because

gamers are creative and will always find that uber char with those uber

skills to pounce on weaklings....SWTOR will probably never ber balanced...

NEVER.

  User Deleted
2/03/12 4:21:10 AM#100

I decided to play a second month to kill time until the 7th when Reckoning KoA comes out.

 

Switched sides and made a Sentinel... I actually find the game somewhat interesting now because I have to pay attention.   Stroll into adds and such ... might even die.

 

Its almost like playing an older MMO... where there was a challenge to live through fights.   I actually kind of miss that.. well until you've killed half a million of the same thing.   Then its like the DnD Gold Box days... when you were so overjoyed your warrior got sweep for the endless hordes of trash.

 

No idea on PvP but I'd imagine the Imps on The Ebon Hawk are so geared out that any republic class would struggle.. so I just skip it.

 

 

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