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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Class Balance Is Terribad

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132 posts found
  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2605

12/22/11 4:30:44 AM#41
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
This class also seems to encourage elitism as this posts shows.  The sentiment on the forums is pretty much, if you don't like the Sent, find another class, which I find laughable.  If it was a well designed class, you wouldn't have all these threads complaining about how bad the class is. The fact that pretty much 95% of the people that have no problem with this class are all running roughly the same build is a testament to the issues with this class.  The other two specs are complete crap for the vast majority of the game.   I'm really happy for you if you're able to succeed as you say; however, I am not.  I raided in WoW as a hunter, so while I'm not exactly a professional gamer, I'm at least competent.  I die frequently to elites and overpowered strong mobs, and I did have such a problem with the Bounty Hunter I played in a previous beta test.

I have a tendency to disagree.  I've seen several well designed classes that were not "easy" to play well be gutted as a result of player complaints, and it never turns out well for the game overall.

I fail to see what I can do differently as a Sentinel to make my life easier against certain elite mobs that litter class quests and other solo quests.  I can only interrupt so many abilities in a certain timespan, and I only have so many buffs and damage reduction abilities.  That is where I think the greatest problem with this class is concerned.

I do believe that designing certain classes to be much more difficult to play well than others as bad game design, but I'll save that for another thread.

  Hexcaliber

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/06
Posts: 172

12/22/11 4:33:16 AM#42
I already said if you disagree with me come roll on red eclipse and I will show you where you are going wrong, I will happily put my money where my mouth is. I am not responsible for the way the game was designed and balanced, I am however, perfectly able to solo through all my class content and +2 heroics up to and including my current level of 35, and I hold my own in pvp.
 
There is a problem with ranged > melee in pvp atm due to the amount of cc available, but that is not a reflection on Sentinel. It is a problem with too much cc overall, that I am sure will be balanced in due course; as a dps class, Sentinel is a class cannon as all high burst dps melee classes have been since the year dot.
 
Frankly, there is nothing else to be said, having made your mind up something is wrong with the tools you are just going to keep whining about it, rather than look at the real problem. Roll X class that you imagine is op, and have done with it; you are likely to be very disappointed if you think everything else is so overpowered, meanwhile I will move on, keep levelling my Sentinel and continue having a blast.

My Colour Is Vomit green, I puke on the tards with stupid colour sigs. My symbol is ,,!, O ,!,, My enemies are any prat with a colour sig, a meaningless personality test, or a pointless list of games and classes.


Regards Hexcaliber

  paintchips

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 107

12/22/11 4:33:18 AM#43
Originally posted by Guileplayer

On my jedi sage (seer sepc, lvl 32) i had no issues with any class quests so far. 

That's because you play a roll face class.

  orangerascal

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 52

12/22/11 4:38:18 AM#44

the sentinel becomes a powerhouse after it gets it's first cc. In the teens you're free food. Bioware should reorder some of the early abilities, but this class is fine in end game.

 

/thread

 

 

 

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1457

12/22/11 4:39:29 AM#45
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
This class also seems to encourage elitism as this posts shows.  The sentiment on the forums is pretty much, if you don't like the Sent, find another class, which I find laughable.  If it was a well designed class, you wouldn't have all these threads complaining about how bad the class is. The fact that pretty much 95% of the people that have no problem with this class are all running roughly the same build is a testament to the issues with this class.  The other two specs are complete crap for the vast majority of the game.   I'm really happy for you if you're able to succeed as you say; however, I am not.  I raided in WoW as a hunter, so while I'm not exactly a professional gamer, I'm at least competent.  I die frequently to elites and overpowered strong mobs, and I did have such a problem with the Bounty Hunter I played in a previous beta test.

I have a tendency to disagree.  I've seen several well designed classes that were not "easy" to play well be gutted as a result of player complaints, and it never turns out well for the game overall.

I fail to see what I can do differently as a Sentinel to make my life easier against certain elite mobs that litter class quests and other solo quests.  I can only interrupt so many abilities in a certain timespan, and I only have so many buffs and damage reduction abilities.  That is where I think the greatest problem with this class is concerned.

I do believe that designing certain classes to be much more difficult to play well than others as bad game design, but I'll save that for another thread.

Do you have a snare?  I kite elites on my assassin w/ Force Slow while my  companion kills them

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2605

12/22/11 4:40:09 AM#46
Originally posted by Hexcaliber
I already said if you disagree with me come roll on red eclipse and I will show you where you are going wrong, I will happily put my money where my mouth is. I am not responsible for the way the game was designed and balanced, I am however, perfectly able to solo through all my class content and +2 heroics up to and including my current level of 35, and I hold my own in pvp.
 
There is a problem with ranged > melee in pvp atm due to the amount of cc available, but that is not a reflection on Sentinel. It is a problem with too much cc overall, that I am sure will be balanced in due course; as a dps class, Sentinel is a class cannon as all high burst dps melee classes have been since the year dot.
 
Frankly, there is nothing else to be said, having made your mind up something is wrong with the tools you are just going to keep whining about it, rather than look at the real problem. Roll X class that you imagine is op, and have done with it; you are likely to be very disappointed if you think everything else is so overpowered, meanwhile I will move on, keep levelling my Sentinel and continue having a blast.

I don't care about your personal exploits which you keep reminding us of, but what I do care about is the fact that this class has obvious issues which you accurately claim to have no control over.  The mere fact that only one spec is even remotely viable in PvE content is evidence enough of this issue.  The idea of DoT based damaged did not appeal to me when I chose my AC thus I picked combat which is high on burst damage.  I found out the hard way that this spec is incredibly unviable for leveling, and Ataru form is pratically broken.  Because I was not aware of this issue, I would ask that BioWare let me change my class to Guardian or fix this class to where my chosen spec is viable for play.

 

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2605

12/22/11 4:43:24 AM#47
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
This class also seems to encourage elitism as this posts shows.  The sentiment on the forums is pretty much, if you don't like the Sent, find another class, which I find laughable.  If it was a well designed class, you wouldn't have all these threads complaining about how bad the class is. The fact that pretty much 95% of the people that have no problem with this class are all running roughly the same build is a testament to the issues with this class.  The other two specs are complete crap for the vast majority of the game.   I'm really happy for you if you're able to succeed as you say; however, I am not.  I raided in WoW as a hunter, so while I'm not exactly a professional gamer, I'm at least competent.  I die frequently to elites and overpowered strong mobs, and I did have such a problem with the Bounty Hunter I played in a previous beta test.

I have a tendency to disagree.  I've seen several well designed classes that were not "easy" to play well be gutted as a result of player complaints, and it never turns out well for the game overall.

I fail to see what I can do differently as a Sentinel to make my life easier against certain elite mobs that litter class quests and other solo quests.  I can only interrupt so many abilities in a certain timespan, and I only have so many buffs and damage reduction abilities.  That is where I think the greatest problem with this class is concerned.

I do believe that designing certain classes to be much more difficult to play well than others as bad game design, but I'll save that for another thread.

Do you have a snare?  I kite elites on my assassin w/ Force Slow while my  companion kills them

Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

What I expect out of elite mobs is for them to have certain abilities that do a LOT of damage if I don't run out of the target area or if I don't interrupt, and  I expect to take a lot of damage through normal attacks if I don't through up my damage reduction abilities as well as pacify which reduces their accuracy by 90%.  Many elites are tuned in such a way.  Other elites can pratically spam their big damage attack to the point of where not even my interrupt can stop them, and enough big hits wipes my companion followed by my player character.  Other mobs have less interruptable skills but do so much damage that they burn through my damage reduction abilities and pacify only affords a momentary advantage.

  bobfish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1621

12/22/11 4:44:20 AM#48
Originally posted by SuperXero89

Eh, I expect to use my companion, but I don't expect to be forced into using companions that I don't like as characters simply because my class has major issues soloing without them.  I guess there's nothing they can do about that though without every class becoming stupidly overpowered.  Similarly, I loved Carth in KoTOR, but he became rather pointless once I began getting Jedi in my party.

Unfortunately you don't have a choice. BioWare has designed it so you must use specific companions depending on your class build, this is the same for all classes in the game.

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1457

12/22/11 4:53:28 AM#49
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

  fadis

Novice Member

Joined: 12/16/09
Posts: 473

12/22/11 4:55:12 AM#50

Not all classes are meant to rule equally at all things at all points in their development.

You're going to have to go through the planets at a higher level and pay more attention to your gear, than say a Sage... but it's all doable.

 

 

 

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2605

12/22/11 4:59:02 AM#51
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

  wesleyarts

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/10
Posts: 58

12/22/11 4:59:24 AM#52
Originally posted by ArEf

Yeaaaah... The class balance is awful.

 

This...

  Hatefull

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 742

Your tears make my gun work better.

12/22/11 5:10:40 AM#53
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
This class also seems to encourage elitism as this posts shows.  The sentiment on the forums is pretty much, if you don't like the Sent, find another class, which I find laughable.  If it was a well designed class, you wouldn't have all these threads complaining about how bad the class is. The fact that pretty much 95% of the people that have no problem with this class are all running roughly the same build is a testament to the issues with this class.  The other two specs are complete crap for the vast majority of the game.   I'm really happy for you if you're able to succeed as you say; however, I am not.  I raided in WoW as a hunter, so while I'm not exactly a professional gamer, I'm at least competent.  I die frequently to elites and overpowered strong mobs, and I did have such a problem with the Bounty Hunter I played in a previous beta test.

I have a tendency to disagree.  I've seen several well designed classes that were not "easy" to play well be gutted as a result of player complaints, and it never turns out well for the game overall.

I fail to see what I can do differently as a Sentinel to make my life easier against certain elite mobs that litter class quests and other solo quests.  I can only interrupt so many abilities in a certain timespan, and I only have so many buffs and damage reduction abilities.  That is where I think the greatest problem with this class is concerned.

I do believe that designing certain classes to be much more difficult to play well than others as bad game design, but I'll save that for another thread.

Do you have a snare?  I kite elites on my assassin w/ Force Slow while my  companion kills them

Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

What I expect out of elite mobs is for them to have certain abilities that do a LOT of damage if I don't run out of the target area or if I don't interrupt, and  I expect to take a lot of damage through normal attacks if I don't through up my damage reduction abilities as well as pacify which reduces their accuracy by 90%.  Many elites are tuned in such a way.  Other elites can pratically spam their big damage attack to the point of where not even my interrupt can stop them, and enough big hits wipes my companion followed by my player character.  Other mobs have less interruptable skills but do so much damage that they burn through my damage reduction abilities and pacify only affords a momentary advantage.

After having read this thread heres my take on this.  You are very new to MMO's or just a very bad player.  All class quests are soloable by that class.  You have some issues with some very fundemental mechanics of MMO games.  The class is not bad or under powered, the person behind the keyboard is.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2605

12/22/11 5:13:28 AM#54
Originally posted by Hatefull
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
This class also seems to encourage elitism as this posts shows.  The sentiment on the forums is pretty much, if you don't like the Sent, find another class, which I find laughable.  If it was a well designed class, you wouldn't have all these threads complaining about how bad the class is. The fact that pretty much 95% of the people that have no problem with this class are all running roughly the same build is a testament to the issues with this class.  The other two specs are complete crap for the vast majority of the game.   I'm really happy for you if you're able to succeed as you say; however, I am not.  I raided in WoW as a hunter, so while I'm not exactly a professional gamer, I'm at least competent.  I die frequently to elites and overpowered strong mobs, and I did have such a problem with the Bounty Hunter I played in a previous beta test.

I have a tendency to disagree.  I've seen several well designed classes that were not "easy" to play well be gutted as a result of player complaints, and it never turns out well for the game overall.

I fail to see what I can do differently as a Sentinel to make my life easier against certain elite mobs that litter class quests and other solo quests.  I can only interrupt so many abilities in a certain timespan, and I only have so many buffs and damage reduction abilities.  That is where I think the greatest problem with this class is concerned.

I do believe that designing certain classes to be much more difficult to play well than others as bad game design, but I'll save that for another thread.

Do you have a snare?  I kite elites on my assassin w/ Force Slow while my  companion kills them

Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

What I expect out of elite mobs is for them to have certain abilities that do a LOT of damage if I don't run out of the target area or if I don't interrupt, and  I expect to take a lot of damage through normal attacks if I don't through up my damage reduction abilities as well as pacify which reduces their accuracy by 90%.  Many elites are tuned in such a way.  Other elites can pratically spam their big damage attack to the point of where not even my interrupt can stop them, and enough big hits wipes my companion followed by my player character.  Other mobs have less interruptable skills but do so much damage that they burn through my damage reduction abilities and pacify only affords a momentary advantage.

After having read this thread heres my take on this.  You are very new to MMO's or just a very bad player.  All class quests are soloable by that class.  You have some issues with some very fundemental mechanics of MMO games.  The class is not bad or under powered, the person behind the keyboard is.

What is your class and level in SW:TOR?

  Hexcaliber

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/06
Posts: 172

12/22/11 5:14:51 AM#55
The entire premise for this thread was that Sent/Mara, and Jugg/guardian were broken and could not do class quests at higher levels as the class balance was broken. The fact that others can and do, clear this content solo, and can, and do solo content intended for a duo with these classes proves that the original supposition is wrong.  If others can use the class to do the things you cannot, the fault is yours not the class, end of discussion, no ifs, and's, or buts.
 
 All I see in this thread is whining about why the class does not play the way a couple of posters want it to, tailored to very particular lazy play styles, tough. The game was balanced and designed so that solo you use companions, the devs don’t care if you like it or not, that’s how it was designed, that’s how it will stay.
 
As for complaints about not adapting and using everything available to a class to achieve your goals /facepalm losers, sucks to be you. That is your flaw as a gamer, it has nothing to do with the game, or any class you may choose to play; learn to adapt, be flexible and improve, or continue on as bad players blaming everything else around you, I care not which.

My Colour Is Vomit green, I puke on the tards with stupid colour sigs. My symbol is ,,!, O ,!,, My enemies are any prat with a colour sig, a meaningless personality test, or a pointless list of games and classes.


Regards Hexcaliber

  Ruinal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 196

12/22/11 5:16:42 AM#56

After having read this thread heres my take on this.  You are very new to MMO's or just a very bad player.  All class quests are soloable by that class.  You have some issues with some very fundemental mechanics of MMO games.  The class is not bad or under powered, the person behind the keyboard is.

QFT. Seriously Super, as someone who has a lvl 42 jugg, level up a bit, get a few more abilities to play with, *learn your sodding class* and quit the qq. If your spec isn't working out, respec. If you still cannot figure it out, get someone who knows the class to hand-hold you through how to get the best out of it. A good guild will help you. Partying up will help you shine, god knows it is much much more efficient than solo'ing and there are bonuses on loot & xp for doing so, not to mention the social points.

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2605

12/22/11 5:22:35 AM#57
Originally posted by Hexcaliber
The entire premise for this thread was that Sent/Mara, and Jugg/guardian were broken and could not do class quests at higher levels as the class balance was broken. The fact that others can and do, clear this content solo, and can, and do solo content intended for a duo with these classes proves that the original supposition is wrong.  If others can use the class to do the things you cannot, the fault is yours not the class, end of discussion, no ifs, and's, or buts.
 
 All I see in this thread is whining about why the class does not play the way a couple of posters want it to, tailored to very particular lazy play styles, tough. The game was balanced and designed so that solo you use companions, the devs don’t care if you like it or not, that’s how it was designed, that’s how it will stay.
 
As for complaints about not adapting and using everything available to a class to achieve your goals /facepalm losers, sucks to be you. That is your fault as a gamer, it has nothing to do with the game, or any class you may choose to play; learn to adapt, be flexible and improve, or continue on as bad players blaming everything else around you, I care not which.

If we're not all in the top 10 raiding guilds in a game with bleeding edge gear, does that mean we are bad players when we can't take down raid bosses within the first week they're launched?  No.  Just because some players are able to complete this content with relatively little issue, does that mean the class is not underpowered?  No.  It's not always if I can do it everyone can do it, and if you can't do it, you're a bad player and don't deserve to progress through my game.

If  you are completing these with no issue, I'd like to take a look at your gear.  Do you upgrade to bleeding edge mods every level range?  Do you carry with you a lot of flashpoint gear or mostly what you pick up from quests?  Do you visit the galaxy market to gear your companion?  Are you above level?  What spec are you?  What is your strategy? Do you use stimpacks?  Medpacks?

Like I said before, I'm not the most skilled player in the world, but I'm at least competant as are my friends who migrated over from WoW with me who have the same survivability issue.  I don't care that you or anyone else finds this game to be a cakewalk, because I believe that if you were to play virtually any other class in the game, you would faceroll 4 times harder than you do now with half the effort.  That doesn't change the fact that this class's survivability issues are only magnified by the fact that many elites in solo quests have overtuned abilities which do not compensate for the lack of comparable abilities possessed by the player.

  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2218

12/22/11 5:26:28 AM#58
Originally posted by ArEf

And this is the primary defence against the marauder being underpowered: "Play through your companion."

That's just unacceptable, to be honest. They're the only class that HAS to use THIS companion to level.

 

Sorcerers are pretty much forced down the Khem Val route. Companions seem to be integral to soloing?

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4142

Trolls will be ignored

12/22/11 5:29:25 AM#59
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

 

I find it interesting that while you post constantly how difficult TOR is there are others that claim it is too easy. Personally, I think the game is just right on the challenge level and I hope bioware never changes a thing.

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  ArEf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 255

Just say RF. :)

 
OP  12/22/11 5:30:30 AM#60
Originally posted by Illyssia

Agreed. Jedi Guardians, for example, are awesome in PvP Huttball. Just have to play as the main ballhandler, and instruct the healers to focus on  topping you up.

 

As for PvE. I think a lot of people need to experiment with their companions and perhaps approach some of the class quest stuff at the higher end of the level range for the zone rather than the begining range. if you try an Elite boss it is much easier to do so at 28 than 24 for example.

Except Jedi Guardians get edged out by Shadows due to Force Sprint.

Originally posted by Draemos

Do you have a snare?  I kite elites on my assassin w/ Force Slow while my  companion kills them

There's a major issue when players are encouraged to play vicariously through their companions.

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