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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Questing - Where is my motivation??

15 posts found
  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5313

 
OP  12/16/11 9:58:18 AM#1

One thing I've noticed about all quest-based MMORPGs is that I really have no motivation to complete any quest beyond exp/loot.  The game makes no effort to personally involve you in any quest, and most of them feel like you're just helping some idiot with something he could have done himself.

For example:

"Help!  Rats have infested my cellar and ate all my candy!  Kill them!"

"Help!  My entire party got wiped out by bandits, but I'm sure you can kill them all by yourself and avenge us!"

"Help!  I need 10 bat feet for my soup but I'm far too lazy to get them myself!"

All of these examples are pretty typical, and I seriously don't care about any of them.

SPRPG quests on the other hand are usually MUCH more involving (good ones at least) because they try to personally connect you with your character so you WANT to do the quest.  Here is an example from a JRPG I recently played (made generic to avoid spoilers).

First, you are introduced to your characters female friend and are shown a cutscene of their blossoming romance, you also learn more about their history together during some normal adventuring.  You start to care about the characters at this point.  Later, your town gets attacked by huge mosnters and your female friend tragically murdered.

At this point, I actually cared about doing the quest, because I wanted to get revenge!  I didn't even care about exp or loot...and I think this is what quest-based MMORPGs are missing.  There's no effort to actually involve you with your character so you care about doing these quests...they just turn into chores.

Thoughts?

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  JohnnyBravol

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/11
Posts: 84

12/16/11 10:41:15 AM#2

I agree, and I believe is because of laziness and money. Developers want to get their game out quickly so they make all of these pointless quests with no real story. As always, it comes down to money. It's way cheaper and requires no creativity to slog out hundreds of quests where you kill boars, etc, for some reason. Whereas actually coming up with story takes time and creativity. It's sad.

  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 770

12/16/11 11:33:39 AM#3

thats why if i was in charge of an MMORPG i would get rid of all these nonsensical quests. it always makes me laugh especially in a game like Rift and SWTOR that i have to do menial tasks that would really be below my character based on the story.

 

Rift - I am an ascended soul called back from death to fight the 7 dragons that are trying to invade Telara. but first i have to help burn old crops and plant new crops for some lazy farmer.

  StonesDK

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 1803

12/16/11 11:38:36 AM#4

MMOs to my knowledge has never had meaningful quest stories to follow that made you actually care. It has always been for the shiny.

Take EQ and the quest for the epic weapon back in its day. It was a long and hard quest line but immersion and story? None existant

Same goes for DaoC. Although the game did create a great atmosphere with the different realms, the quests didn't

Not a single MMO to this date has had any meaningful PvE content outside the hunt for loot and xp.

 

If you find yourself caring about immersion and getting lost in story over loot and levels, I'm afraid you are in the wrong genre.

 

 

If i have to be completely honest I never cared much about meaningful quests. When i started it was to fight alongside others having a meaningful and fun specialized role. Wheter it be healer, crowd controller, tank or other. A game that makes a group stick together for more than 45 mins it takes to clear an instance. EQ had that and so did DaoC and Vanguard

  almalexius

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 187

Being pro is for losers.

12/16/11 11:40:37 AM#5
Originally posted by Ecoces

thats why if i was in charge of an MMORPG i would get rid of all these nonsensical quests. it always makes me laugh especially in a game like Rift and SWTOR that i have to do menial tasks that would really be below my character based on the story.

 

Rift - I am an ascended soul called back from death to fight the 7 dragons that are trying to invade Telara. but first i have to help burn old crops and plant new crops for some lazy farmer.

Hahaha +1

WOW,eq2,Vanguard,WAR,LOTRO,AOC,Rift Aion, SWTOR, TERA.

Currently playing GW2.

  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 770

12/16/11 11:41:33 AM#6

to me most QUESTS should be epic in nature ....

 

taking the evil ring that will enslave the entire population if it falls into the wrong hands through the dangers of mordor and throwing it into a volcano is a quest.

 

going to farmer petes field and killing 10 rats so he can make his famous rat feet stew is NOT.

 

id like to see future games take this approach. have quests which are "hidden" (no quest icon over peoples head) that are epic and then have a TASK board where players can get their kill X of Y creature type quests.

  helthros

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/09
Posts: 1452

12/16/11 11:41:49 AM#7

Um.. have you even looked at ToR?

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

12/16/11 4:18:55 PM#8

The stuff those assholes who made WoW call quests aren't quests, they are tasks and chores.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11360

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

12/16/11 4:41:24 PM#9
Originally posted by Creslin321

One thing I've noticed about all quest-based MMORPGs is that I really have no motivation to complete any quest beyond exp/loot.  The game makes no effort to personally involve you in any quest, and most of them feel like you're just helping some idiot with something he could have done himself.

For example:

"Help!  Rats have infested my cellar and ate all my candy!  Kill them!"

"Help!  My entire party got wiped out by bandits, but I'm sure you can kill them all by yourself and avenge us!"

"Help!  I need 10 bat feet for my soup but I'm far too lazy to get them myself!"

All of these examples are pretty typical, and I seriously don't care about any of them.

SPRPG quests on the other hand are usually MUCH more involving (good ones at least) because they try to personally connect you with your character so you WANT to do the quest.  Here is an example from a JRPG I recently played (made generic to avoid spoilers).

First, you are introduced to your characters female friend and are shown a cutscene of their blossoming romance, you also learn more about their history together during some normal adventuring.  You start to care about the characters at this point.  Later, your town gets attacked by huge mosnters and your female friend tragically murdered.

At this point, I actually cared about doing the quest, because I wanted to get revenge!  I didn't even care about exp or loot...and I think this is what quest-based MMORPGs are missing.  There's no effort to actually involve you with your character so you care about doing these quests...they just turn into chores.

Thoughts?

Your example is a great one. It shows how much of a farce that would be in a massively multiplayer world. Is everyone else on the server tapping that? And if they all are, and she has to be around for the next new player that shows up then they can't quite kill her off.  If you look at how the most engaging and meaningful lcontent is done in MMOs you'll see the mechanics of each one are such that they are channeling you into a singleplayer or small group dynamic.  Combine that with the fact that most players enjoy the loot/xp aspect far more than reading/hearing/watching storyline content, and you have your answers as to why single player CRPGs have far more engaging stories than massively multiplayer persistent environments with the ability for players to hop into the world and start their own iteration of the story independent of everyone else.

What are your thoughts on servers with a reset? A server where everyone starts the same story or adventure at the same time and it plays out until the entire story is over or a world goal is reached?  A design like that would probably allow for deeper, more compelling serverwide dtory arcs with more meaningful plots and choices.

 

  Sid_Vicious

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 1523

12/16/11 8:03:18 PM#10

The main problem imo is that MMORPGs usually follow a story in some instance that others will repeat exactly so your story of meeting a girl who later gets killed by bandits or whatever wouldn't motivate you any more than those stupid menial quests if it was in an MMORPG because if it was than you would ask some guy where he got his cool piece of armor and he may reply 'oh its from some bandits that you kill for killing your girl which you start by talking to the girl at the tavern'. While following that guys advice because you have to have that piece of armor for PVP or something makes the quest the same ol menial task. Stories in MMORPGs are shared and not original enough.

 

What is more motivating to me is a non-instanced world without a scripted story that everyone has to do to unlock more content or get some special reward but instead game-changing quests that are huge and once they are completed than they are done forever and its over because nobody else will ever do that same quests again. This way everyone would become part of history more instead of following the rails of some themepark. Think of Darkfall for example and the dynamic events that they had with monsters gathering to attack cities or what not. I would like to see more stuff like that and more games with tools for the GMs to create quests for the players so that they can create a once-in-a-lifetime experience. This would be more motiving to play because if you miss out in something happening in the game than you missed it forever and will just have to catch the next unexpected thing the GMs come up for you.

 

They could have tools for players even to make their own menial quests for others to do things that they don't want to do. A crafter character could hire noobs to gather stuff for example. These quests and tasks could get more complex and more dynamic and interesting by having things like localized banking, FFA PVP with consequences, faction wars, etc.

NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

  Madimorga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1780

12/16/11 9:13:11 PM#11
Originally posted by Ecoces

thats why if i was in charge of an MMORPG i would get rid of all these nonsensical quests. it always makes me laugh especially in a game like Rift and SWTOR that i have to do menial tasks that would really be below my character based on the story.

 

Rift - I am an ascended soul called back from death to fight the 7 dragons that are trying to invade Telara. but first i have to help burn old crops and plant new crops for some lazy farmer.

 

That bit about Rift quests sums it up really well.  Questing is such a joke in MMOs.  At least SWTOR has a storyline that tries to involve the player, but the end result is being sent out to kill and fetch in a pretty lackluster manner.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2715

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

12/17/11 7:45:24 AM#12


Originally posted by Creslin321
One thing I've noticed about all quest-based MMORPGs is that I really have no motivation to complete any quest beyond exp/loot.  The game makes no effort to personally involve you in any quest, and most of them feel like you're just helping some idiot with something he could have done himself.
For example:
"Help!  Rats have infested my cellar and ate all my candy!  Kill them!"
"Help!  My entire party got wiped out by bandits, but I'm sure you can kill them all by yourself and avenge us!"
"Help!  I need 10 bat feet for my soup but I'm far too lazy to get them myself!"
All of these examples are pretty typical, and I seriously don't care about any of them.
SPRPG quests on the other hand are usually MUCH more involving (good ones at least) because they try to personally connect you with your character so you WANT to do the quest.  Here is an example from a JRPG I recently played (made generic to avoid spoilers).
First, you are introduced to your characters female friend and are shown a cutscene of their blossoming romance, you also learn more about their history together during some normal adventuring.  You start to care about the characters at this point.  Later, your town gets attacked by huge mosnters and your female friend tragically murdered.
At this point, I actually cared about doing the quest, because I wanted to get revenge!  I didn't even care about exp or loot...and I think this is what quest-based MMORPGs are missing.  There's no effort to actually involve you with your character so you care about doing these quests...they just turn into chores.
Thoughts?


The worst quests I have ever come across were in Wizard101. Your little wizard is asked over and over to do other wizards' homework for them! (You play a young wizard at a magic school.) And this game is touted as a top-notch "family oriented" MMO.

The best quests I have come across are the ones directly tied to my character and his progression or background. WoW Druids used to have to quest in order to learn their alternate animal forms. EQ had low level armor quests for every race/class combo. WoW hunters used to have to learn how to tame their pets through questing. EQ had truly EPIC quests to gain a class's epic items.

A story involving a character does not have to be super-uber-epic. A story like that does not really fit into the MMORPG genre, where the world must stay static and persistent. (Yay! I saved the galaxy! Yet nothing has changed to show that I did.) But if I avenged someone I loved, even in some small way, that would be awesome! Quests that help my character come alive would be a very welcome sight, indeed.

I agree 100% that quests today are ONLY a means to an end... Leveling to end game. It would be nice to have quests that actually meant something again.

[edit]


Originally posted by Sid_Vicious
What is more motivating to me is a non-instanced world without a scripted story that everyone has to do to unlock more content or get some special reward but instead game-changing quests that are huge and once they are completed than they are done forever and its over because nobody else will ever do that same quests again. This way everyone would become part of history more instead of following the rails of some themepark. Think of Darkfall for example and the dynamic events that they had with monsters gathering to attack cities or what not. I would like to see more stuff like that and more games with tools for the GMs to create quests for the players so that they can create a once-in-a-lifetime experience. This would be more motiving to play because if you miss out in something happening in the game than you missed it forever and will just have to catch the next unexpected thing the GMs come up for you.


So you play MMOs 24/7? Is that a requirement for you? This is why I don't play sandbox games, though I would like the freedom they present. I just don't have the time or desire to play a game 24/7.

I also have no desire to be the savior of the universe in an MMO. After all, "There can be only one." oops... Wrong place for that quote :) I save that for SPRPGs, where I do things like that at my own pace and actually affect the game world.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Sid_Vicious

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 1523

12/19/11 10:23:51 AM#13
Originally posted by AlBQuirky



Originally posted by Sid_Vicious
What is more motivating to me is a non-instanced world without a scripted story that everyone has to do to unlock more content or get some special reward but instead game-changing quests that are huge and once they are completed than they are done forever and its over because nobody else will ever do that same quests again. This way everyone would become part of history more instead of following the rails of some themepark. Think of Darkfall for example and the dynamic events that they had with monsters gathering to attack cities or what not. I would like to see more stuff like that and more games with tools for the GMs to create quests for the players so that they can create a once-in-a-lifetime experience. This would be more motiving to play because if you miss out in something happening in the game than you missed it forever and will just have to catch the next unexpected thing the GMs come up for you.



So you play MMOs 24/7? Is that a requirement for you? This is why I don't play sandbox games, though I would like the freedom they present. I just don't have the time or desire to play a game 24/7.

 

I also have no desire to be the savior of the universe in an MMO. After all, "There can be only one." oops... Wrong place for that quote :) I save that for SPRPGs, where I do things like that at my own pace and actually affect the game world.

I would like it to be true that a casual player could have more of these kinds of experiences . .. I think it is possible to build a game in which they could.

NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

12/21/11 9:51:18 AM#14
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by Ecoces

thats why if i was in charge of an MMORPG i would get rid of all these nonsensical quests. it always makes me laugh especially in a game like Rift and SWTOR that i have to do menial tasks that would really be below my character based on the story.

 

Rift - I am an ascended soul called back from death to fight the 7 dragons that are trying to invade Telara. but first i have to help burn old crops and plant new crops for some lazy farmer.

 

That bit about Rift quests sums it up really well.  Questing is such a joke in MMOs.  At least SWTOR has a storyline that tries to involve the player, but the end result is being sent out to kill and fetch in a pretty lackluster manner.

I feel the same way, especially the comment about SWTOR. They made a valiant effort trying to use story and VO to make menial tasks feel less menial, but at the end of the day collecting 10 droid data cores is still collecting 10 droid data cores.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Volkon

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3804

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/23/11 8:32:41 AM#15

This is why I'm looking forwards to the dynamic events that are replacing quests in GW2. Imagine walking along and some guy actually comes running over (without a big, green exclamation point over his head) and he's yelling something like "Help, we're being attacked by a dragon!" You hear explosions, see smoke and look... there's actually a dragon attacking the town! Villagers are being burned, buildings burned, people fighting back... you have a choice, help defend the town somehow or keep on going your merry way.

And your choice will matter. You may come back later and find the dragon actually won. The town is razed and the dragon now lives there and has minions going out and about causing problems in the countryside. The merchants you wanted to visit... well, they're kind of dead right now. You have a new event pop up... drive off or defeat the dragon and liberate the town for example.

If they pull this type of thing off like they promise questing will die as we know it. No more people with exclamation points standing there waiting for you to come along and go kill ten of those threatening wolves standing in the field picking daisies. No more completing the quest only to see someone else come along and be tasked with going to kill ten more wolves... and the ones you killed have already respawned and taken up to menacing those daisies again.

Oderint, dum metuant.