Originally posted by kadepsyson

Sandbox isn't about levels or skill systems really.  It's about what it sounds like!  The freedom for the person playing in the sand, to do what they want with it.  Sure some games have a shovel and others a bucket. 

A game like TOR though is more like walking along a beach and seeing a sandcastle someone else built, before continuing on to the next, larger sandcastle until you get to the biggest one and then repeatedly walk around it until the paid expansions offer more sandcastles.

Yes because it is called a themepark. It is like me going to EVE and Darkfall and complaining it is not more like theempark MMOS. I love sand boxes for what they offer and themepark for its own offerings. And i prefer to keep these two genre seperate. 

Ultima Online, one of the first MMO's some how had the best skill system out there. 0-100 skills with 100 being a Grand Master and a skill cap like each player can only acquire 700 skill points out of the many skills available. Thats the only way to balancea sand box so even new players can jump in and one day be equal. Want to know what happens when you have no skill cap? Ask Darkfall... the completely boycotted pretty much any new player by letting them get demolished by vets with maxed out everything in a game that after all the exploit fixes prolly takes 6 months to a year to max out a large amount of stuff.

Originally posted by onthestick

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Sandbox isn't about levels or skill systems really.  It's about what it sounds like!  The freedom for the person playing in the sand, to do what they want with it.  Sure some games have a shovel and others a bucket. 

A game like TOR though is more like walking along a beach and seeing a sandcastle someone else built, before continuing on to the next, larger sandcastle until you get to the biggest one and then repeatedly walk around it until the paid expansions offer more sandcastles.

Yes because it is called a themepark. It is like me going to EVE and Darkfall and complaining it is not more like theempark MMOS. I love sand boxes for what they offer and themepark for its own offerings. And i prefer to keep these two genre seperate. 

It was an example of a themepark, as you say.  No complaining, just explaining!  :)

Originally posted by onthestick

Originally posted by Unreal024

Why aren't all themepark fans still playing EQ, or EQ 2, WoW, LoTRO, Vanguard (this is not a sandbox btw), Aion, Rift, ? Just because a game is a sandbox doesn't mean that it's for every sandbox fan. Silly question if you ask me.

Actuall majority of players are enjoying themepark. But how often do you see themepark players starting topics or making posts just to trash sandbox games? now compare that to angry sand box players who spend most of their time trashing themepark MMOS.

I play both by the way and i have no reason to be anrgy at either genre. The day people understand that both are seperate genre and people enjoy different things in life..you won't see topics like this.

I understand that, but that's not whay I'm saying. My post had nothing to do with the population of any of those games. The OP is basically saying "You want a sandbox, this game is a sandbox, why aren't you playing it?". The reason that a sandbox fan isn't playing 'x' sandbox game is because they obviously don't enjoy it. Just as not every themepark fan enjoys WoW or Rift, which is why I say it's a silly question.

As for why some sandbox fans trash themepark games in forums, well, mostly because of frustration. It's good that people who enjoy themeparks (and sandbox fans who also enjoy themeparks) have interesting games to play. But, imagine having nothing. A new themepark comes out atleast once or twice a year, themepark fans have quite a selection to choose from. If the same could be said for sandbox games then you wouldn't see as much 'trolling' and there wouldn't be any need for posts like these. It's very frustrating that no 'good' (good being a very key word) dev house is willing to attempt a true sandbox title. Now perhaps they should take the high road and just not post in any game's forums that they have no interest in. But the truth is, they are still as addicted to the genre as any themepark fan. They cannot give it up, and for that reason I'm afraid that themepark fans are just going to have to live with it.

Played EVE for 6 years. Even though I object to the FFA PvP and see forced without consent mechanics as anti social and bullying.

Played Ryzom back before the bankruptcy and loved it on a crafting level and the basic combat systems but the mobs were over the top where they could chain in the hundreds, everything was aggro and it was a gauntlet from the time you left a town untill you entered one. Mandatory blobbing and forced grouping is not the core of Sandbox.

Played Perp as well. It's too small and tried to replicate the FFA PvP in EVE but because its so small you couldn't escape it like you can in EVE. It is a griefers paradise right now, not a sandbox.

Vanguard got hit by the NGE bus that drives by the SOE door every time they try and launch a game.

----

I have tried every single MMO that appears on the cover to be a sandbox but they are all litter boxes full of griefers and assholes. "Go play Second Life" people say. Its a cash shop scam just like Entropia, worse actually because Entropia has a harvest system in content. You buy everything in second life in a piece by piece fashion. Oh and the graphics look like shit. Games like Entropia and Second life forgot that computer and software tech are obselete at launch. They try and make it virtual investment but they won't invest themselves. Graphics packs annually or GTFO.

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Sandbox is not FFA unconsenting bully fests. Figure out another way to clean up server space. SOE did. Subscription based, you aren't subscribed they pack your house up. Maintenance. Don't maintain your on server structures, they fade away and vanish, along with everything in them. Keep valuables in a bank vault.

Every "sandbox" MMO out there has elements of Sandbox with a catch. No catch, no rope a dope, no griefers clause pls.

Originally posted by Unreal024

Originally posted by onthestick

Originally posted by Unreal024

Why aren't all themepark fans still playing EQ, or EQ 2, WoW, LoTRO, Vanguard (this is not a sandbox btw), Aion, Rift, ? Just because a game is a sandbox doesn't mean that it's for every sandbox fan. Silly question if you ask me.

Actuall majority of players are enjoying themepark. But how often do you see themepark players starting topics or making posts just to trash sandbox games? now compare that to angry sand box players who spend most of their time trashing themepark MMOS.

I play both by the way and i have no reason to be anrgy at either genre. The day people understand that both are seperate genre and people enjoy different things in life..you won't see topics like this.

I understand that, but that's not whay I'm saying. My post had nothing to do with the population of any of those games. The OP is basically saying "You want a sandbox, this game is a sandbox, why aren't you playing it?". The reason that a sandbox fan isn't playing 'x' sandbox game is because they obviously don't enjoy it. Just as not every themepark fan enjoys WoW or Rift, which is why I say it's a silly question.

 

As for why some sandbox fans trash themepark games in forums, well, mostly because of frustration. It's good that people who enjoy themeparks (and sandbox fans who also enjoy themeparks) have interesting games to play. But, imagine having nothing. A new themepark comes out atleast once or twice a year, themepark fans have quite a selection to choose from. If the same could be said for sandbox games then you wouldn't see as much 'trolling' and there wouldn't be any need for posts like these. It's very frustrating that no 'good' (good being a very key word) dev house is willing to attempt a true sandbox title. Now perhaps they should take the high road and just not post in any game's forums that they have no interest in. But the truth is, they are still as addicted to the genre as any themepark fan. They cannot give it up, and for that reason I'm afraid that themepark fans are just going to have to live with it.

Sorry but that is no excuse now is it? ;) i have seen countless times sandbox players getting angry not only at themepark MMOS but also with those who play it. Generalising and calling themepark players childish, un intelligent and what not. I think this is the part OP was trying to focus upon. Posting about your un satisfaction is another thing but blaming themepark players and game they enjoy and getting personal is something else.

Playing Vanguard myself ... but I dont think its a sandbox even if it has a lot of (secondary) features typical for sandboxes, like no instancing.

Originally posted by onthestick

Sorry but that is no excuse now is it? ;) i have seen countless times sandbox players getting angry not only at themepark MMOS but also with those who play it. Generalising and calling themepark players childish, un intelligent and what not. I think this is the part OP was trying to focus upon. Posting about your un satisfaction is another thing but blaming themepark players and game they enjoy and getting personal is something else.

 

I've been on this site long enough (long before I ever created this account) to have seen it comming from both sides. It's not just sandbox fans. I can't tell you why people have to get into pissing contests over what type of game is better, or why their opinion matters more, I don't do it (I just enjoy reading it). All I'm saying is, it's never going to stop, so you might aswell just join in or sit back and grab some popcorn.

Fallen Earth : Ive given up on this game since Gamersfirst took over. The devs show no vision at all. Stupid gathering node changes, so that most players simply loot mats from mobs or kill mobs for chips to buy the mats. Lot of lag, rubberband issues. Floating mobs. These things became worse since the take over from Gamersfirst. I hate severe lag in any game and this is really a gamebreaker for me (check their FE forums, its not just me).

Vanguard : Too late, too little. The client is still sluggish as hell on modern pc's. There have been no real updates since I dont know for how long, but it feels like years. This game seems to go nowhere. I had fun at launch, the moments the game was playable anyway. I came back a year later when the client performed better, but almost nothing else was fixed.

Ryzom : This game has great crafting and the combat stanzas are a nice idea too. The environment and animals are awesome. World feels alive. But thats it. There is nothing else. 

EVE : played it for a while. Loved the PVP in fleets. Combat is a little boring though and Im not that much of a fan of its skillsystem, where training is so passive.

I had my hopes for Fallen Earth or a f2p SWG. But too bad, its not going to happen. So now I get my sandbox fix from Skyrim instead. I really wish there will be a MMO with sandbox features that uses Skyrim's skillsystem and alive world. It kind of makes sense at least. FFA PVP is a big NO for me in any MMO. Simply because players always find a way to use it for grieving and I cant punch them in the face for real, so I can do without it.

Played EVE for 3.5 yrs and have accomplished all the goals I set out to, time for something different.

Ryzom I tried while it was in receivership, seemed sort of half baked and unfunded, perhaps it's better now but getting a bit dated unfortunately.

Vanguard, Fallen Earth, played them both, neither are sandbox style games even though they contain some common element with them.

I even gave Xyson a whirl and let them keep my 40 buck sub fee but it was a terriblly built game.

As others have said, create a decent AA (forget AAA) new sandbox style MMORPG and I'll be there with bells on.

Till then I'll be playing the themeparks that come out and finding what enjoyment I can in each of them.

Because they are not the perfect sandbox for me.

Vanguard has a minimap with a GPS telling you where to go. That's themepark in my book.

Ryzom i never tried i think...

Originally posted by someforumguy FFA PVP is a big NO for me in any MMO. Simply because players always find a way to use it for grieving and I cant punch them in the face for real, so I can do without it.

Ah, so if you could physically harm another player for real, FFA PVP is ok then?

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by someforumguy FFA PVP is a big NO for me in any MMO. Simply because players always find a way to use it for grieving and I cant punch them in the face for real, so I can do without it.

Ah, so if you could physically harm another player for real, FFA PVP is ok then?

Unless they are bigger.

Originally posted by Maquiame

Please explain why, I need to hear the reasons, because I call shenanigans. Hey with all the energy that is spent flaming themepark forums, why are sandboxers or those who like sandbox features not playing Ryzom or Vanguard? Both are very good games that have alot to offer, and there are free trials for both of them.

So, what is your reason for not playing these games? Or is it because of the PVE focus of these games that keeps you away from that (what does sandbox have to do with pvp I will never know)

*Waits and listens...........

Eve is a good sandbox game too but I think its too niche for alot of people, lets have some other sandbox games that are out now that people should be playing but don't, please list them in question form.

Soooo, you saay you like sandboxes, soo why are no not playing Perpetuuum or Eve for that matter?, etc....

Ryzom is absolutely worth playing if you like sandbox mmo i dare saying its even one of best sandbox out there and a VERY nice community also.

Vanguard sandbox sinds when?

Ive installed Ryzom  for year now also played not long after it first launched and play from time to time but at moment im little burnout with online play so i play solo games.

Space mmo's i dont like so i dont play EVE.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by someforumguy FFA PVP is a big NO for me in any MMO. Simply because players always find a way to use it for grieving and I cant punch them in the face for real, so I can do without it.

Ah, so if you could physically harm another player for real, FFA PVP is ok then?

 I'd say he is calling out the anti social aspects of griefer in game mechanics.

People wouldn't be so eager to piss on your cornflakes if you were sitting beside them in an internet cafe ready to send them skidding under a table.

Why even respond to threads like this? Obviously it's just a troll's little revenge to people who don't like themeparks.

Originally posted by EverSkelly

Why even respond to threads like this? Obviously it's just a troll's little revenge to people who don't like themeparks.

 It's what forums are for. Cleaning out the vents, thinking out loud to clear thoughts that fill your head. OP is just making observations, drawing conclusions like the rest of us.

Originally posted by free2play

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by someforumguy FFA PVP is a big NO for me in any MMO. Simply because players always find a way to use it for grieving and I cant punch them in the face for real, so I can do without it.

Ah, so if you could physically harm another player for real, FFA PVP is ok then?

 I'd say he is calling out the anti social aspects of griefer in game mechanics.

People wouldn't be so eager to piss on your cornflakes if you were sitting beside them in an internet cafe ready to send them skidding under a table.

Your arguement is so flawed its even rediculous.

First of all nobody forces anybody to buy or join a game that have free for all pvp. So if a game have free for all and you buy it or join and then come to conclusing it have free for all pvp while you hate it, i should suggest investigate first before  blindly buy such games.

All who buy these games can't whine or cry about if they upfront knew it would have free for all pvp. Free for all pvp is for those who don't have any problems with FFA PVP, as you guys do so your example of the PISS ON YOUR CORNFLAKES is rediculous the least AND NOT VALID ARGUEMENT AT ALL hehe.

You all can argue from here to ETERNITY about free for all pvp as long there is nobody putting a gun agains your head forcing you to play i would say shut the ... well you know what i mean, leave the FFA PVP to those who love it and you stay at your oh so safe white instance servers with no risk and we all are happy.

Vanguard is not sandbox. Its just very old school MMO

Ryzom is sandbox. But its a game maintained alive by one man in basement...

EVE is awesome , but its complexity melts down brainboxes of most normal people.

Darkfall is sandbox but its aimed at hard core PVP crowd.

Fallen Earth is not really sandbox.

UO is to old.

Any more questions ?