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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Terraria Multiplayer why we will never have a thriving free-form sandbox mmo.

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27 posts found
  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  12/10/11 10:24:38 AM#1

Today i was on some random dudes multiplayer server. I was the first to log in and this guy literally build a castle made of gold and red bricks with all these statues and really cool stuff.

I checked it out and went on my way to add to his little kingdom.

Twenty minutes later two more people logged in. 

They see the structure and immediately start breaking it apart for the gold bricks, statues, banner and all the other stuff and log off...

While a sandbox experience as a mmo sounds like an amazing thing on paper there is one fatal flaw.

People...

You can't have a complete free-form experince because people simply dont know how to act, they need to be directed like children, be punished for bad and rewarded for good.

 

You can't have a sandbox mmo without hard coded mechanics to curb peoples asshatery. And once you add in those mechanics a game is no longer a free form sandbox.

 

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  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6646

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

12/10/11 10:26:54 AM#2

Sandbox does not mean anarchy. There can still be consequences for bad behaviour even though it is sandbox.

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  12/10/11 10:28:42 AM#3
Originally posted by Yamota

Sandbox does not mean anarchy. There can still be consequences for bad behaviour even though it is sandbox.

Then its not a true free form experience. 

People want a mmo with the freedom of minecraft or terraria.

And people are the reason why we cant have one.

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  poefue

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/07
Posts: 234

12/10/11 10:29:28 AM#4

I just started playing Terraria and it is a awesome game.  Question about what you mentioned.  Can you carry what you acquire in multiplayer back over to single player mode?

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  12/10/11 10:30:24 AM#5
Originally posted by poefue

I just started playing Terraria and it is a awesome game.  Question about what you mentioned.  Can you carry what you acquire in multiplayer back over to single player mode?

Yes.

I play mutliplayer and we help new players with gear and materials. 

Whatever you pick up in a multiplayer server can be used in any world type.

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  poefue

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/07
Posts: 234

12/10/11 10:31:51 AM#6

Good to know.  The game was very overwhelming for me at first, which was exciting.  I have not had that feeling in a long time in a game.

  Cactus-Man

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/10
Posts: 573

12/10/11 10:46:42 AM#7

That is one example, but I think there are a lot of mechanics that don't work on the massively multiplayer level due to the number of people and are best kept to single player or smaller multiplayer games where you could control who you play with.

Then there are mechanics that have to be nerfed into the ground to be viable for a MMO, stuff like story, building things, destroying things, having an affect on the game world etc.

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  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

12/10/11 11:05:29 AM#8
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Yamota

Sandbox does not mean anarchy. There can still be consequences for bad behaviour even though it is sandbox.

Then its not a true free form experience. 

People want a mmo with the freedom of minecraft or terraria.

And people are the reason why we cant have one.

Another person who feels the baker must first create the universe otherwise they didn't truly bake a cake from scratch.

Security levels and ownership rules still allow for freedom. In UO, a player can build his house piece by piece and have it still standing when he comes back. Sandbox doesn't mean lawlessness.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  User Deleted
12/10/11 11:20:10 AM#9

The fatal flaw is thinking this is what sandbox fans are asking for in a mmorpg.

 

 

It's the virtual world.

 

  User Deleted
12/10/11 11:22:39 AM#10
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Yamota

Sandbox does not mean anarchy. There can still be consequences for bad behaviour even though it is sandbox.

Then its not a true free form experience. 

People want a mmo with the freedom of minecraft or terraria.

And people are the reason why we cant have one.

Freedom to "do what you want" is not the same as "freedom from the consequences of doing it".

The two are not mutually exclusive.

  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2682

12/10/11 11:23:17 AM#11
Terraria is awesome! But then again I would never Eeeeeevee EEEEVER host the game publicly unless I can limit what other ppl cando. Why cuz i dont want ppl ruining my world.

On another note, do we have a mmorpg.com dedicated terraria server? O.O

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  Salio69

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/06
Posts: 425

12/10/11 11:29:17 AM#12

i have to agree with the op. when it comes to sandboxes, its not the game itself or the developers who ruin it, its the people. look at wakfu, they really tried going for sandbox theme, as sandboxy as it can get. you get to elect leaders who run your faction and they can set laws and taxes. one day my wife and i logged in to find you literally couldnt kill anything or DO ANYTHING without becomming an outlaw because of the laws some new governor set in. we just quit, you couldnt play, litterally. the game itself was actually fun but its theres no point in playing when someone can ruin the thing for you.

  niceguy3978

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 2011

12/10/11 11:32:00 AM#13
Originally posted by WSIMike
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Yamota

Sandbox does not mean anarchy. There can still be consequences for bad behaviour even though it is sandbox.

Then its not a true free form experience. 

People want a mmo with the freedom of minecraft or terraria.

And people are the reason why we cant have one.

Freedom to "do what you want" is not the same as "freedom from the consequences of doing it".

The two are not mutually exclusive.

I agree with this.  I honestly don't enjoy sandbox games, but just because you can do whatever you want doesn't mean you can do it without consequences.  This is the argument I hear all the time in the U.S. about freedom of speach (heck we see it pop up on these forums as well).  "I can say whatever I want because of the 1st amendmant."  Too many seem to think this means you can say what you want anywhere anytime without any consequences.  That is just false, they can say whatever they want whenever they want and the federal government won't do anything (unless they are making threats of some kind) however, this doesn't mean that somebody else won't enforse a consequence (such as this website banning you, or any other site, or getting kicked out of a store, restaraunt, etc.).  Freedom to do what you want doesn't = freedom to do what you want with no consequences.

  User Deleted
12/10/11 11:57:18 AM#14
Originally posted by Salio69

i have to agree with the op. when it comes to sandboxes, its not the game itself or the developers who ruin it, its the people. look at wakfu, they really tried going for sandbox theme, as sandboxy as it can get. you get to elect leaders who run your faction and they can set laws and taxes. one day my wife and i logged in to find you literally couldnt kill anything or DO ANYTHING without becomming an outlaw because of the laws some new governor set in. we just quit, you couldnt play, litterally. the game itself was actually fun but its theres no point in playing when someone can ruin the thing for you.

The developers let you elect a king of a faction who could pass laws at his will making it impossible for you to do anything? This was coded into the game not player ran content totally?

I have no idea why you blame sandbox gameplay, or other people for that. Only blame i see is for you thinking that it wouldnt happen if it was so easy, then quitting rather than doing something about it. It's a game. You had some other long-term goal more interesting than getting rid of a dictator? Isnt that part of the game?

Im not following your train of thought i guess.

  helthros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/09
Posts: 1477

12/10/11 12:12:37 PM#15
Originally posted by Z3R01

Today i was on some random dudes multiplayer server. I was the first to log in and this guy literally build a castle made of gold and red bricks with all these statues and really cool stuff.

I checked it out and went on my way to add to his little kingdom.

Twenty minutes later two more people logged in. 

They see the structure and immediately start breaking it apart for the gold bricks, statues, banner and all the other stuff and log off...

While a sandbox experience as a mmo sounds like an amazing thing on paper there is one fatal flaw.

People...

You can't have a complete free-form experince because people simply dont know how to act, they need to be directed like children, be punished for bad and rewarded for good.

 

You can't have a sandbox mmo without hard coded mechanics to curb peoples asshatery. And once you add in those mechanics a game is no longer a free form sandbox.

 

 

This is exactly why Sandbox and FFA PvP tend to go hand in hand. In most sandbox games (Terraria doesn't really count), you would be able to turn around and kill the jive turkey that wronged you, getting your stuff back as well as whatever else he had. Viola, that's how sandboxes work.

  xenogias

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1945

12/10/11 12:23:33 PM#16
Originally posted by helthros
Originally posted by Z3R01

Today i was on some random dudes multiplayer server. I was the first to log in and this guy literally build a castle made of gold and red bricks with all these statues and really cool stuff.

I checked it out and went on my way to add to his little kingdom.

Twenty minutes later two more people logged in. 

They see the structure and immediately start breaking it apart for the gold bricks, statues, banner and all the other stuff and log off...

While a sandbox experience as a mmo sounds like an amazing thing on paper there is one fatal flaw.

People...

You can't have a complete free-form experince because people simply dont know how to act, they need to be directed like children, be punished for bad and rewarded for good.

 

You can't have a sandbox mmo without hard coded mechanics to curb peoples asshatery. And once you add in those mechanics a game is no longer a free form sandbox.

 

 

This is exactly why Sandbox and FFA PvP tend to go hand in hand. In most sandbox games (Terraria doesn't really count), you would be able to turn around and kill the jive turkey that wronged you, getting your stuff back as well as whatever else he had. Viola, that's how sandboxes work.

Thats now FFA PvP sandboxes would work. They dont need to go hand in hand. Only people who want a FFA PVP sandbox would think you cant have one without the other. Personally I would love a ffa pvp sandbox but I also understand the two dont have to go togeather.

The thing people just cant seem to understand is any game needs structure. There is no arguing that. The amount of structure (rulesets) in a game may be varried but they have to be there. For example one person could say "Well you HAVE to be able to kill pigs so you can eat in a sandbox MMO. If you dont eat you die.". The counter argument to that is as a sandbox I should be able to play how I want. I dont want to be bothered with eating. Both are sandbox ideals but but have a diffrent structure.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

12/10/11 12:30:33 PM#17
Originally posted by helthros 

This is exactly why Sandbox and FFA PvP tend to go hand in hand. In most sandbox games (Terraria doesn't really count), you would be able to turn around and kill the jive turkey that wronged you, getting your stuff back as well as whatever else he had. Viola, that's how sandboxes work.

Terraria pretty clearly counts as a sandbox game.

And as the other poster mentions, FFA PVP certainly doesn't have to be part of a sandbox game.

Simply adding the capability to "lock" your structures in Terraria would solve this issue while stil letting the game be extremely freeform and sandboxy.  (Haven & Hearth worked like this.)

  User Deleted
12/10/11 12:46:06 PM#18

Instead of sandbox, use virtual world. Make sense now?

  Nevulus

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1286

12/10/11 12:48:44 PM#19

I guess that's why I like Minecraft better, there are ways to limit what people can do on your public server.

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

12/10/11 6:16:51 PM#20

There just needs to be rulesets per server, and because of the way Terr works w/ Player-Hosted ones, it's just in need of a host of ranks that can be applied to IDs. Anyone below Admin cannot build or destroy, but can adventure in another persons world. Then there just needs to be ways to seed your own dungeons accordingly.

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