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News & Features Discussion  » General: The No Elves Manifesto

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195 posts found

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 880
Be my friend!

12/07/11 1:16:33 PM#81

I do NOT support your anti elves, wizards, orcs, etc movement.. Why you ask? Well my friend, fantasy MMORPG's are supposed to be filled with everything that makes up mythology and fiction, hence elves, wizards, dragons, fairies, orcs, goblins, dwarves, magic, etc etc etc.... Without these elements in the game, what will make the game a fantasy mmorpg? lol..

If you want to play a mmorpg like Eve, Love, or any other non traditional fantasy style game, then that's fine, go and enjoy it....  But true fans of mmorpg's are those who started playing them with PnP D&D years and years ago.. My first role playing experience was when I was like 6.. It was the phantasy star series, followed by Shinging Force and Final Fnatasy "mystic quest" 

 In my own opinion, a MMORPG isn't truly a MMOG unless there is an assortment of mythological races, classes, quests, dungeons, and of course a livable breathable online world you share with thousands of other people...

How you felt about Eve is exaclty what I felt the first time I logged into the original Everquest 11 years ago....  To me, that is what a fantasy MMORPG should be...  Anything else isn't truly a fantasy mmorpg, in my mind.. :)

Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)


Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/07/11 1:19:52 PM#82
Originally posted by Zekiah
What I don't like are all the crappy MMO titles these days so perhaps we need a:No Crappy MMO Manifesto

Sure.  But the pivotal question, as always, is:  Who decides?

Any dictatorship that doesn't include me as the head of state is doomed to fail.  I'm sure you feel the same.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/07
Posts: 89

12/07/11 1:21:51 PM#83
Originally posted by Blasphim

Elves don't bother me's the portrayal of a certain type of elf that does. The daisy eating, tree hugging, leaf wearing, glitter skinned elves bother me. If an MMO had some cigar smoking, gun toting, jeans and workboots wearin, smudged up kind of elf, I don't think it'd bother me at all (dear MMO gods, please let some AAA dev pick up the Shadowrun license).

Cliffhangers Production has acquired the Shadowrun license some time ago and they work on a browser game "Shadowrun Online".


About elves, I think nobody has done elves in PC games the way they really are ...

A step forward would be to remove elves from the budget of playable races. No person I know of has lived for hundreds of years and could live the feelings attached to longevity. i.e.  why they're attached to their environment that strongly and have trouble to change. I'm a follower of the "Tolkien elf mythology".


Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 6671

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

12/07/11 1:22:00 PM#84

Originally posted by Zekiah

I like elves and fantasy MMOs.

What I don't like are all the crappy MMO titles these days so perhaps we need a:


No Crappy MMO Manifesto



Just a thought.


this really should be the movement about

edit: manifesto, not movement.... tho its kind of the same xD


Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/07/11
Posts: 1

12/07/11 2:03:28 PM#85

Originally posted by precious328

I don't mind elves. What I do mind, however, are the constant WoW-clones and their linear/simplistic mindset.

Seriously. Battlegrounds? Redundant Raids? Linear Progression?

Mankind has landed on the moon. Do you mean to tell me that this is all we are capable of within the MMO realm?


Yup problem isnt races or even lore. Its the gameplay.

Its like saying WW2 genre is crap. If all you played was COD or MOH ya I would get tired of WW2 games too. But play Company of Heroes or Hidden and Dangerous 2 and you will discover its gameplay over settings.

If people want to change elves to B'elves or  use Vulcans its still going to be boring gameplay b/c WOW, EQ, LOtRO, etc all play the same. Dont go blaming fantasy genre.

Though to add to that im tired of most RPGs in general. They all are watered down. Again nothing to do with elves. Few RPGs that look unique are actually on console. Dark Souls, Dragons Dogma, etc.

So maybe the fantasy genre is to blame for generic gameplay.  D&D and NWN and Diablo created this mindless gameplay.  But i see it in star wars game too.



Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/06
Posts: 12

12/07/11 2:04:52 PM#86

i don't really see wat the big deal is the more races a game has the better  it is imo  and i don't play elfs  but i don't have any problem seeying them ingame i don't udnerstand the reason to loath a fictional race so much its a game the more fiction the better


Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/05
Posts: 2018

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

12/07/11 2:23:07 PM#87

Elves are classic fantasy (and classic historical folklore). Whats the big deal? If you don't like them and a good game has them, play. Or don't.


Seems a fluff/filler article to me.


Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 471

12/07/11 2:24:34 PM#88

Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by casskhaw

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Not bad article.

And while I agree with most. I also think that elves are not to bad. But oversaturation and copy cat buisness practices are what we are all tired off.

Look at elves in Witcher : Agressive militant terrorists, bent on suicide killing of any human they find.

Thats quite original. Why not...






Don't get me wrong. I could still stomach elves if they're presented properly. The elves I'm ranting about are the pretty ones you always see in MMOs. I can not name the last MMO that did not feature elves that were NOT willowly, inhumanly good-looking and ... yeah, you know what I'm talking about. 


Skyrim! Wait...err..;)


I spent a good hour and a half trying to make my wood elf on Skyrim look halfway decent and it still looks like her face was run over by a truck. Sorry but I like my characters looking reasonably attractive.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 38

12/07/11 2:36:20 PM#89
Good luck with the whole "no elves" thing.

Things don't get overused for no reason. One moment the crowd is cheering for change, but the moment you try to give it the change it'll tear your budget apart saying that your alternative is "not to their taste", "wierd" or even outright "revolting".

All this overused stuff is overused because it's the golden spot. Take a look at any other imaginary race and ask yourself - would that one survive as long as elves did without causing a similar reaction? The answer will be no. And most of the time, not even to a comparable extent.

Change is a good thing, but without any other strong direction able to apeal to an audeince big enough to justify the investment all you'll be getting is a lot more elves, a handfull of faliures, and few rare sucessful exeptions.

Eve, btw, has virtualy no humanoid races, seeing how it is about ships and noone even gets to see the pilot unless specificaly looking for the picture. And even then those are mostly ugly (or atleast they were a couple of years back).

So I suggest to get over this "elvofobia", find a game that offers something new in addition to those "elves" and the next time you see a "vertically-challenged man with excessive body hair" remind yourself that he is keeping the game afloat.

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 774

12/07/11 2:47:28 PM#90

hmm nope not sick of any of it at all. maybe the author is just personally sick of the fantasy genre.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1719

12/07/11 2:56:44 PM#91

Did anyone else just scroll down it for the photos, not reading the text?

Play as your fav retro characters: My site: Blog:


Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/08
Posts: 429

12/07/11 2:57:29 PM#92

No elves hurm?


Global Agenda failed ... did'ent anyone tell you?


Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/05
Posts: 86

12/07/11 2:59:16 PM#93

Originally posted by centkin

Does this mean it is FINALLY time for Asheron's Call 3?

I mean instead of elves, dwarves, gnomes -- they actually managed to put a world together with virindi, olthoi, and lugians. 

You do NOT need to use ANY of the "original" fantasy races.  You can create a world that is completely different with all different monsters etc.

This is one of the big things that AC did that other MMOs didnt do before or after.


Note we are talking fantasy -- not scifi which by definition has different things than elves dwarves etc.  Personally I do not like scifi because offense trumps defense (IE the gun of whatever era).


Thank you!


I was going to say the same thing.



Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/07
Posts: 265

12/07/11 3:02:18 PM#94

no elves world was very big factor to me to choose play guild wars and age of conan. i loved in shaiya where elves were just enemies to kill

Playing: Rohan
Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos


Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2657

12/07/11 3:15:24 PM#95

No to your no elves...I prefer fantasy over other about no to crappy railed games...That I can get on board with.



Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 609

fanboi of truth

12/07/11 3:16:12 PM#96

The premise of this article seems rather misleading.  There are fantasy  genres that don't involve elves. And do we really need another thinly disguised marketing campaign for EVE?  I mean, I was sort of with the author through the Love commentary, but then came mention of EVE, and the author lost me.


I guess what bothers me about this article (and potential series of articles) is that the author attempts to tie horrid, tired gameplay to the Fantasy genre when, in fact, what is being lambasted is simply horrible gameplay. It has nothing to do with the fantasy genre.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/11
Posts: 293

12/07/11 3:29:08 PM#97

I don't mind elves, I'm just sick of every one of them being a variant of Lotr elves.

Really, I'm sick of high fantasy, I want a different type of fantasy. However would people accept it? I doubt it, if it doesn't follow similar settings to Lotr or  D&D, people would complain. I remember someone complaining about Vanguard having non-traditional classes, they have the traditional classes too, but oh god you can't have anything different.

Go ahead keep making typical High Fantasy, but I wish someone would make something radically different. Where is the next Lotr, D&D or at least Warhammer? I think it's about time fantasy had a new highly influental fantasy, this goes for all fantasy not just MMORPGs, something for my generation.

"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
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Joined: 1/27/04
Posts: 370

My new motto; Nothing worth saying takes less than a giant wall of (kinda)structured text! :D

12/07/11 4:05:27 PM#98

ELVES ARE OVER-USED, AND IM TIRED OF THEM! BUT IT IS ESPECIALLY THE ASIAN-MARKET THAT HAS ABUSED THEM, IMO! :D (A dozen or so new ''mmo''s come out of asia almost every day, and almost every single one of em providing us with scantly-scantly dressed elves with some (by now) tremendously cliche' anime charasterectics......ugh..



Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1

12/07/11 4:32:44 PM#99

I think there is like serious ADD going on here.. because the first part was on point, then all of a sudden it went all askew, but I agree with the point. 


Novice Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 136

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12/07/11 4:50:14 PM#100

I dont dislike elves but i think they have been watered down into pussies. From my DnD days i always thought of elves as tall slender extremely hot arrogant assehats who had no peer in magic use or archery. They knew they were hot and could melt your brain with a look. They tolerated other races, because they were not evil they just knew they were atop the pecking order.

What we get today as elves is just indicative of mmos today boring unimaginative, copies or clones of each other,god forbid they have a skill or attribute that wasnt fair or balanced for a magic user, who were stupid enough to pick a magic using class that wasnt an elf. I blame WOW and all its clones for this, also the whiney kids who have to have balance because they put no thought into picking a race that suits their class.

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