Originally posted by onthestick

Originally posted by Ashlinde

and i stop playing on 12/20..... weird huh!?

the game simply isnt wort a penny to play. there is barely any content, the game is half baked, and the devs arent doing that much to fix it really. a year to get chocobos and airships into a final fantasy game?!?! i think it was just too ambitious of a project for the mediocre talent they had working on it. playing for free wasnt half bad, although i found myself playing OTHER f2p mmos a little more than it... but subs? i think not.

Biggest problem of FFXIV imo.

you have no idea lol. Its been over a year and there is barely anything to do.

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Originally posted by zanfire

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Originally posted by onthestick

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Originally posted by Ashlinde

and i stop playing on 12/20..... weird huh!?
the game simply isnt wort a penny to play. there is barely any content, the game is half baked, and the devs arent doing that much to fix it really. a year to get chocobos and airships into a final fantasy game?!?! i think it was just too ambitious of a project for the mediocre talent they had working on it. playing for free wasnt half bad, although i found myself playing OTHER f2p mmos a little more than it... but subs? i think not.

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Biggest problem of FFXIV imo.

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you have no idea lol. Its been over a year and there is barely anything to do.

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I honestly could've stomached it if at least killing things was fun.

My girl and I went back one more time when apparently everything was "fixed" and really it just felt less than beta.

Maybe in another year when they 2.0 it and possibly not just rip off another game to do so I'll consider having it installed again. But I'll have my degree this Spring and hopefully will be too busy to even care about this crap title.

Originally posted by Zookz1

Originally posted by Hyanmen
Once again, if you don't play this game any changes in the subscription policy are none of your business since they don't affect you. You won't play the game when it's free, you won't play it when there's a fee, you aren't even part of the demographic this change is aimed towards. SE may not "deserve" (lol) any revenue but the current players do not "deserve" to play the game for free either, not anymore after more than a year of free service. They have gotten their money's worth by playing the game up until this point. As I said, SE is not obliged to keep the service running, especially for those who Don't Even Play yet still feel like they're entitled to have an opinion regarding it's status quo. Demanding the service to be shut down and as such spitting on the faces of those willing to pay to keep the service running is selfish and self-centered. If they did a server wipe people would leave, if they didn't some people wouldn't come back. But surprisingly they are on the side of those who have supported them thus far. How horrible of them.

 

How is it none of their business? Perhaps they're prior players and wanted to chime in. Maybe they've been following the game for a year. You may not agree with their opinions, but they're just as entitled to theirs as you are of yours. Nobody is calling you a slobbering 'tard for enjoying the game and your willingness to pay for it.

 

 

 Our comments might in fact be pointless but to be blunt, this thread is pointless because if it's about who's "business" it is, anyone who gives a shit got the email about billing dates and how the service would be suspended on the 5th for all accounts. Of course the link is "General Discussion" not information portal for people who don't have access to Lodstone forums.

Originally posted by Zookz1

 

How is it none of their business? Perhaps they're prior players and wanted to chime in. Maybe they've been following the game for a year. You may not agree with their opinions, but they're just as entitled to theirs as you are of yours. Nobody is calling you a slobbering 'tard for enjoying the game and your willingness to pay for it.

 

 

{mod edit}

As far as losing potential subs, that could be correct. Then again, if one has played the game in it's current state for a year already the chances are he will at least check out 2.0 (where his achievements thus far are stored). As such while you nor I know anything about the true state of affairs I'm doubtful that the ratio of players lost exceeds the ratio of revenue gained. SE has their own experts to calculate these things, so sorry for being skeptical about an internet anonymity with a grudge claiming doom&gloom. Oh, since the announcement of 2.0 any potential new players have been lost up until 2.0. SE was quite straightforward in stating that the game will not change drastically up until then, leaving players who gave up on the game for being what it is little reason to come check things out beforehand. Only people left are those who enjoy the game right here and right now.

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Originally posted by Hyanmen

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Originally posted by Zookz1
 
How is it none of their business? Perhaps they're prior players and wanted to chime in. Maybe they've been following the game for a year. You may not agree with their opinions, but they're just as entitled to theirs as you are of yours. Nobody is calling you a slobbering 'tard for enjoying the game and your willingness to pay for it.
 
 

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{mod edit}

As far as losing potential subs, that could be correct. Then again, if one has played the game in it's current state for a year already the chances are he will at least check out 2.0 (where his achievements thus far are stored). As such while you nor I know anything about the true state of affairs I'm doubtful that the ratio of players lost exceeds the ratio of revenue gained. SE has their own experts to calculate these things, so sorry for being skeptical about an internet anonymity with a grudge claiming doom&gloom. Oh, since the announcement of 2.0 any potential new players have been lost up until 2.0. SE was quite straightforward in stating that the game will not change drastically up until then, leaving players who gave up on the game for being what it is little reason to come check things out beforehand. Only people left are those who enjoy the game right here and right now.

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Well I for one paid for the god damn game expecting it to at least be playable. The current state isn't. I suspect they'll address the issue in some manner, but yeah like many others, being expected to pay just to peek in and see if they've made this pile of crap worth the cash spent on the box involves me and others.

You're marking out, and it's kind of sad.

The game you love sucks. Deal with it and stop showing up on every thread to put up walls of text as some sort of cushion or defense.

Well, billing had to start sometime.  It was honorable of them to let this game go B2P for this long.  That said, I don't think they've made enough changes in this game yet to justify charging players a monthly fee, and I find it hard to believe SquareEnix feels as if they've made enough changes as well.  I would assume they're in need of some cash at this point.

Originally posted by PukeBucket

 

Well I for one paid for the god damn game expecting it to at least be playable. The current state isn't.

Err, a lot of us are playing the game and enjoying ourselves. A game not to your liking =/= not playable.

Originally posted by PukeBucket

Well I for one paid for the god damn game expecting it to at least be playable. The current state isn't. I suspect they'll address the issue in some manner, but yeah like many others, being expected to pay just to peek in and see if they've made this pile of crap worth the cash spent on the box involves me and others.

You're marking out, and it's kind of sad.

The game you love sucks. Deal with it and stop showing up on every thread to put up walls of text as some sort of cushion or defense.

Originally posted by Hyanmen
Some of the comments in here are hilarious.

Here's a few facts:

1) If you aren't playing the game right now this decision has absolutely no effect on you and as such is none of your business to judge.
2) Square-Enix as of right now is not getting any revenue whatsoever from this title. Now, some people are saying that a move like this will make a dying game die much faster- which brings up a question: how can the game die faster if it is bringing in more revenue than before? It is as if the people here felt that the current playerbase has any other role than to spend SE's resources by keeping the service live for no cost. This brings me to the final fact;
3) SE is not obliged to keep the service live. They did so before, possibly as a PR attempt and to repay to those players who were not satisfied by the end product but kept playing either way. Now, these people have played for free for more than a year and as such SE owes them nothing more than a free copy of version 2.0. That leaves them two choices, to stop the service or to let those who want to keep playing to keep doing so for a fee to cover the expenses. Obviously the former would be a bad move and the latter is completely voluntary agreement between the customer and the corporation.

The comments are reasonable your reaction however is not.  

2.0 is supposed to make the game pay worthy...... the problem is that 2.0 isn't comming out until 2013(?). 

So they aren't asking you to pay what the game is worth, they are asking you to pay now what the game MAY be worth in a years time. 

The objections to this are reasonable and expected from a rational sain adult. 

The bad move is charging now for a game that won't be ready for another year. If they need money to stay afloat until then they really need to find another means. If they rely on the current players whom have expressed extreme dissatisfacation over the game in it's current state to pay and keep the game afloat for a year then everyones going to lose. 

They went free to play because people weren't paying...... if they start charging now then you will simply end up in the exact same predicament they are trying to get out of only now they would have burned their player base twice. 

Burning players once is something they have been struggling to recover from for awhile now. How well do you think they will hold up after another backlash over the same issues?

Gamers now days are not overly forgiving. Recieving a second chance is rare enough, hoping for a 3rd..... well I am sure you see where I am going with this. 

It will be interesting to see how many of the f2p people continue with this game now it is charging. It looks like SE had two choices:

Continue with ftp until the complete overhaul had been done, or risk a drop in player numbers by introducing the payment model earlier.

It's a risk in terms of player numbers, but you can say that any money coming in is better than none at all. The danger could be  the game loses so may players that the remainder get fed up of playing in a wasteland and move on.

SE painted themselves into a corner from the start with this game, which in fact did have a positive for the market. It served as a warning to other companies about the quality level of released product.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

The comments are reasonable your reaction however is not.  

2.0 is supposed to make the game pay worthy...... the problem is that 2.0 isn't comming out until 2013(?). 

So they aren't asking you to pay what the game is worth, they are asking you to pay now what the game MAY be worth in a years time.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

The comments are reasonable your reaction however is not.  

2.0 is supposed to make the game pay worthy...... the problem is that 2.0 isn't comming out until 2013(?). 

So they aren't asking you to pay what the game is worth, they are asking you to pay now what the game MAY be worth in a years time.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but hear me out.

 

As has been mentioned quite a few times, whether the game is pay-worthy or not is entirely subjective. What 2.0 will possibly do is to make the product pay-worthy for a larger audience. That is a better way of stating it because here it is not implied that the game is not pay-worthy as of right now. That would be false as people exist who think the game is pay-worthy in the current state of affairs.

 

Now, that said, they are indeed asking those who do think the game is worthy of payments to pay up so the game can stay afloat up until 2.0. Whether you end up paying or not has no effect on the end result (as in 2.0). It has not been even implied that it would, and to be frank, the payments of those who like the game for what it is would, at best, cover the upkeep costs and nothing more. But, it is those upkeep costs that are the justification for asking payments in the first place. Whether we like it or not 2.0 is coming, but that does not mean that the service should continue up until then. As far as SE is concerned, the upkeep costs for those who have already played the game for a year is not going to be justifiable come 2012. They have still the right to a free copy of 2.0, but not to the current service. A years worth of free playtime, which these people did make good use of, is the corporation making up for the initial blunder. Now the debt has been repaid for that stage.

I think you missed the post I made after that one but the point is this.........

FFXIV can not survive another forced free to play conversion and while some may find the game pay worthy it would be wise to surf around a bit and check out the discussions going on. Those that find the game pay worthy are in an extreme minority. This is all obvious stuff here, not a real head scratcher.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

So what does any company get out of players playing for free while they improve the game and let players test these improvements? Oh wait....... thats called a beta. 

What SE has apparently gained is insight on whats needed to bring the game up to a pay worthy state. I doubt they would have come up with the changes planned in 2.0 had it not been for all of those that continued to play. 

Well I guess we need to hope they have gained some insight on whats needed at least. 

In the end voting with out wallets is what brought us to free to play to begin with.......... I would simply hate to see a round two of that because I don't think FFXIV will survive having to go free to play again. 

 

And yes their was a reason to continue to play a game you currently disliked since it was free. People had hope for this title and still do, many hand in their for the potential. If your there playing and giving feedback you have an opportunity to help a game you want to like become something more than another failed title to add to your video game dustbin. The FF ip has or at least had a strong fanbase many of us have played FF games for decades. 

The ones that are complaining that SE scammed them and such this long after release is comical. If you payed $70 for the Collector's Edition after the warnings from beta players or didn't even research a game before pre ordering isn't SE's fault. They gave a year's free play, and even if the game isn't to your liking still, they're giving another free trial once 2.0 hits for all that bought the game already. They can do nothing more besides what they're doing now, so save yourself the effort and stop complaining. There's a lot more you could be doing with your time.

Edit: The game is not dying, not dead, or won't die anytime soon. A majority of the forum dwellers on the Lodestone said they're staying after the fee, and the Lodestone has more complaining than MMORPG.coms forums. A lot of people are enjoying the game, me being one of them. Find yourself another game to play until 2.0, then try it again. If not, you got more than your moneys worth as you knew what you were buying. If not, you didn't research the game at all (which is always a roulette type game with a newly launched MMO) as they were many warnings.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

I think you missed the post I made after that one but the point is this.........

FFXIV can not survive another forced free to play conversion and while some may find the game pay worthy it would be wise to surf around a bit and check out the discussions going on. Those that find the game pay worthy are in an extreme minority. This is all obvious stuff here, not a real head scratcher.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

So what does any company get out of players playing for free while they improve the game and let players test these improvements? Oh wait....... thats called a beta. 

What SE has apparently gained is insight on whats needed to bring the game up to a pay worthy state. I doubt they would have come up with the changes planned in 2.0 had it not been for all of those that continued to play. 

Well I guess we need to hope they have gained some insight on whats needed at least. 

In the end voting with out wallets is what brought us to free to play to begin with.......... I would simply hate to see a round two of that because I don't think FFXIV will survive having to go free to play again. 

 

And yes their was a reason to continue to play a game you currently disliked since it was free. People had hope for this title and still do, many hand in their for the potential. If your there playing and giving feedback you have an opportunity to help a game you want to like become something more than another failed title to add to your video game dustbin. The FF ip has or at least had a strong fanbase many of us have played FF games for decades. 

 

2.0 will have a beta of its own. The current version is not a beta, and even if it were, they would only need a fraction of the current playerbase to provide feedback for them. Nobody plays a game they dislike, regardless of whether it's free or not.

The current version turned into a data mining project for 2.0. Sure 2.0 will have a beta, but without the data mining from those that stuck it out it's a sure bet that there wouldn't be a 2.0 or at least a 2.0 thats as far along as it is already. I mean you can remain in denial all you want but the game went free to play because of the exact same complaints that exist about the game right now. 

And yes people play games they dislike for different reasons but in this situation it is more or less they are playing a game that seems worth it as long as there is no monthly fee. I mean I like playing spades and hearts but not enough to pay a monthly fee to do so it's not that much fun it's basically something to do when I don't feel like doing anything else atm. 

In any case I won't try and convience you of anything your set in your view and I'm set in mine. 

If you are one of the few that does find the game pay worthy it would be wise to consider the long term effects of this move before defending it and chastising others for complaining. 

Bottom line as I said before FFXIV will not survive another round of free to play. If it's forced to convert to a free to play model again soon after charging people its pretty much certain that the next step is closing down. 

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

I think you missed the post I made after that one but the point is this.........

FFXIV can not survive another forced free to play conversion and while some may find the game pay worthy it would be wise to surf around a bit and check out the discussions going on. Those that find the game pay worthy are in an extreme minority. This is all obvious stuff here, not a real head scratcher.

 

I don't think it's any surprise to them that the people who find the game payworthy at this point consist of those who currently play it, who are a small minority like you said. But what they have figured out is that said minority can, with their payments, justify the service upkeep and as such the decision was made. Those who didn't find the game worthy of playing are in great majority but the thing is, that they have one thing in common: none of these people will be affected by this change, making their role in coming up with this decision moot. They don't play, great majority of them won't pay before 2.0 and possibly even after. As far as they are concerned, SE could shut down the service and they still wouldn't be affected. That's the fact.

Oh no, it's not the people that currently play it that find it pay worthy. It's a very small portion of those that currently play it that find it pay worthy. If they are banking on everyone currently playing to continue to do so when the monthly fee hits they are in for a very rude awakening. 

I have no idea why you assume those playing now are willing to pay. Look around, those complaining about the up and comming monthly fee ARE playing. If they weren't they would have no reason to complain lol. 

But any case I'm out of this conversation at least since it's going no where fast. 

It is not about the sub fee but the fact that they are charging us for a beta. I never talk things out of my behind so i jumped in FFXIV recently to check the changes and it was more or less the same game. So whether it is 5 bucks or 15 a month, players are still paying for game which is still in beta testing.

If it was any other MMO same people who are supporting this would be up in arms and throw 'it is about principle' arguments at us.

Originally posted by onthestick

It is not about the sub fee but the fact that they are charging us for a beta. I never talk things out of my behind so i jumped in FFXIV recently to check the changes and it was more or less the same game. So whether it is 5 bucks or 15 a month, players are still paying for game which is still in beta testing.

If it was any other MMO same people who are supporting this would be up in arms and throw 'it is about principle' arguments at us.

Beta? The key systems are set. In 2.0, the game's keeping the Armory System, the same classes, same crafting, materia system, game engine, etc. The only big things that are changing is maps/character rendering/UI/storyline.

I guess when WoW had Cataclysm change it's maps or when an MMO added new races it was considered a beta product too.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Oh no, it's not the people that currently play it that find it pay worthy. It's a very small portion of those that currently play it that find it pay worthy. If they are banking on everyone currently playing to continue to do so when the monthly fee hits they are in for a very rude awakening. 

I have no idea why you assume those playing now are willing to pay. Look around, those complaining about the up and comming monthly fee ARE playing. If they weren't they would have no reason to complain lol. 

But any case I'm out of this conversation at least since it's going no where fast.