Originally posted by Supersoups

Originally posted by TheMaelstrom

The fact that nearly 50% of the votes for combat are 8, 9, or 10 leaves me dreading the future of MMOs.

 

I found the combat to be completely uninspired (dev decision), totally uninspiring (as a player it made me not want to play this game), and exceptionally boring (as a player I was so bored I won't ever play this game). I mean c'mon... try playing any class with a ranged weapon and running around while firing your blaster. All the shots fired at you bend and track you down as you move. It looks AWFUL in my opinion. Absolutely awful.

 

I'm also shocked by the voting for graphics/character creation. The character creation options were so limited / bland that I can't see how they can be overlooked even though the world design is pretty nice.

 

To each their own I guess. I just feel more and more like I'm the odd man out these days, and MMOs just aren't for me anymore.

That pretty much sums up your posts so in a way you answered your own dreadful worries. And you make it sound as if SWTOR combat is so awful that it makes MMOS  future in general look bleak. Too much over reacting.

Actually, Soups, I'm not tryin to merely "make it sound as if SWTOR combat is so awful that it makes MMOs future in general look bleak".... I'm saying it - emphatically.

The combat is, in my opinion, god-awful shite.

We've had the same exact combat since what.... 2000 or 2001? Gaming should advance, not stagnate.

Originally posted by DexterMMO

Hey looky looky... so many hate threads but far more positive votes.

I don't know, I've been spending more time than necessary browsing threads regarding TOR lately (for lack of anything better to do) on this forum, and my overall experience has been that the positive posters and comments far outweigh the negatives. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but the results in this poll thus far show just about what I would expect from the talk I've seen in various posts: ratings from average to above.

The current leading results were exactly how I voted! Each one...So it seems the majority of Folks see it the same...Character Customization is the most lacking feature, while Story and Companions are the best part of the Game...

Interesting...

Originally posted by KyngBills

The current leading results were exactly how I voted! Each one...So it seems the majority of Folks see it the same...Character Customization is the most lacking feature, while Story and Companions are the best part of the Game...

Interesting...

Yeah, character customization is easily the most lacking piece, while nearly everybody liked a majority of the stories. 

Originally posted by TheMaelstrom

Originally posted by Supersoups

That pretty much sums up your posts so in a way you answered your own dreadful worries. And you make it sound as if SWTOR combat is so awful that it makes MMOS  future in general look bleak. Too much over reacting.

Actually, Soups, I'm not tryin to merely "make it sound as if SWTOR combat is so awful that it makes MMOs future in general look bleak".... I'm saying it - emphatically.

The combat is, in my opinion, god-awful shite.

We've had the same exact combat since what.... 2000 or 2001? Gaming should advance, not stagnate.

Have to agree.. Bioware's actually taken a few steps back from what more recent MMOs have been doing, like Aion and Rift, and it looks like they'll be way behind games like Tera and GW2, and I'm guessing TSW, since even AOC had some minor steps forward in terms of combat.  What really gets me is that a more action oriented combat (ala Tera) would have made so much more sense, given the setting.

and speaking of companions, I did like the idea, but am I the only one unimpressed by the implementation?  Seeing so many Vettes running around was just as bad as seeing clones of our own characters everywhere.  Then when I got the customization reward, it was just three colors to choose from?  They could have done any number of things to prevent this sort of issue, but its like they just keep forgetting that they're making an MMO.

Originally posted by arieste

It's been a while since i did my market research courses, but i believe that if you're going to be totalling this stuff up, you want to drop the top rank (everyone that voted 10) and the bottom rank (everyone that voted 1-3) and then just average it based on 6 possible ranks for a more true indication.  You can probably be more exact than that, but given that you lumped 1,2 and 3 together, it's kinda difficult.

IIRC, you're supposed to drop the top 10% and bottom 10% of votes, not all the votes for 1 and 10.  Some products really are that good or bad, so if enough people are voting that extreme, they should be taken into account.

Originally posted by Charas

I gave a 7+ to everything except companions. I already can't stand them and I refuse to ever use one again. Seeing everyone running around with their stupid cloned companion is a severe immersion breaker for me, and where the hell is the option to mute their useless ramblings???

Also wtf is up with sending them on errands?? Click a button, wait 3 minutes, click another button...profit. That's one of the most uninspired features I've seen in an MMO in a long while...

 

I agree with everything here pretty much.  Seeing everyone and their mom run around with the same companions is a little ridiculous.  Also, having companions do upwards of 40% of your damage essentially puts a limit on your own usefulness.   Companions everywhere just seems to diminish the impact of your own performance, both good and bad.

The errand system reminds of me of Final Fantasy Tactics.  It was...kinda cool...in 1997.  You weighed the pros and cons.  On one hand, you'd lose the company of a vital member of your entourage.  On the other hand, you'd allow that character to progress more than he/she otherwise would be able to.  In SW:ToR, it's just a pro.  I'm usually happy to be rid of the companion for a bit lol.  

---------------------------------------------

I gotta say, I approve of this community vote design more than the traditional gaming website design where players just vote 1-10, and then we only see the final average displayed.  In such a poll, you have the fanboys voting 10s and the fanboys of other games/haters voting 1s because they each want to have as much impact on the final result as they can.  While this undoubtedly still occurs here, you can see the outliers and then completely ignore them.  We all know this game isn't a 1, but neither is it a perfect 10.  

Voting on each category also forces people to stop and think for a second about an actual aspect of the game, whch will, perhaps, get them to vote a little more truthfully.  

Originally posted by maskedweasel

So, I have this idea... We have about a million reviews out there, everyone saying relatively the same thing, giving their own personal scores... I thought perhaps we should try something a little different.  A COMMUNITY review.  Below you will find polls with certain features, and scores pertaining to those features.  Select the score you feel is appropriate.  Comment on what you graded and why.  

 

For those that haven't tested I've added a show results option.   I did not get to add Space Combat,  Sound, or  longevity to the polls, so you can speak a little about those features in your reply.

 

 

 

After voting and seeing the results, I can't help but see the overwhelmingly negative response that the game recieved after the latest beta.  

It's kind of neat how, as more votes pile in, that all the results start to look like bell curves. They are all definitely weighted towards the upper end of the results. That's close enough to, "people seem to like it" to me.

tying graphics in with character creation is gonna hurt that score alot. To me character creation is a 3 on its own. The lack of body types is just a glaring miss. 

I love tor but that is a huge issue. It doesnt take away from my enjoyment but ti does give me a thing i find negative in this game. 

I love the other stuff. dont get me wrong not all stories are equal the smuggler one is just amazing as is the inquistior one from what ive tried fo them. the knight and counselor isnt as good as those but isnt horrid either. overall though i think the story deserved a 10 because the planetary stories are a great addition also. 

The companions i dont have an issue with so what if everyone has the same one. U can change appearance pretty early and as u level i assuem there are more kits to chagne appearance further so they dont look exactly alike. 

if u look at the polls thos most of the player base has most of the aspects rated a 7 or better. that to me says this game is getting alot more positive reviews then negative. 

Especially when over 50 percent is 8 or better as is the case in a number of these options.

You know what I find neat.

If you go to the official forums, or even here for that matter, every thread is doom and gloom. Yet in every poll, or every positive thread, the majority of people say (or vote) favorable things about the game.

Do you think the majority of poeple like the game, and perhasp the haters are the vocal minority?

i think its both. From what i saw in chat while playign tor weekend beta most of the people who played tor loved it.

The thing is haters not only make 1 negative thread they make 10 

so while a positve guy may make 1 thread to tell ther point of view haters are throwing out 10 threads . 

so u got a vocal minority creating fake accounts and shit making 100s of threads putting game down while those that lvoe it use there reg accoutn and only post once if at alll

I for one have never actually started any thread but i love tor. I bet there are people like me out there alot more then haters who never start a threa. 

I truly belive those that hate this game cant help but spew that hate everywhere whereas those that like it usualy only end up posting to defend the game in negative threads.

so the poll show that the majority loved tor and dont post as much while haters cant help but spew there hate and put this game down over and over and over.

Originally posted by ShaunJ1380

You know what I find neat.

If you go to the official forums, or even here for that matter, every thread is doom and gloom. Yet in every poll, or every positive thread, the majority of people say (or vote) favorable things about the game.

Do you think the majority of poeple like the game, and perhasp the haters are the vocal minority?

 

 

What I find neat is the psychology of people who never have much to say, but rate just about everything a 7 or 8.  I'm not just talking about gaming, either.  Seems like the world is full of centrists who just generally like stuff, and sway all trends towards mass production and mediocrity.

They're difficult to predict, though, because despite liking something, they can be fickle and easily distracted.  Just because they vote one way doesn't mean they won't vote for the opposition a week later.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

So, I have this idea... We have about a million reviews out there, everyone saying relatively the same thing, giving their own personal scores... I thought perhaps we should try something a little different.  A COMMUNITY review.  Below you will find polls with certain features, and scores pertaining to those features.  Select the score you feel is appropriate.  Comment on what you graded and why.  

 

For those that haven't tested I've added a show results option.   I did not get to add Space Combat,  Sound, or  longevity to the polls, so you can speak a little about those features in your reply.

 

 

 

Just wanted to add that you guys can add your own user reviwes using our user features...feature. :) http://www.mmorpg.com/settings.cfm?subaction=myFeatures

You can normally find this in the Game Reviews & Features section of your profile.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Nazgol

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

...

 

 Exactly! That is much more indicative to reflecting how this poll looks. I'm sorry infavilla, but you claiming anything at 7 or below as bad, is not good representation at all!

 I would say anything under 5 is bad. Since 5 would be the average of the scale he is using.

I think you folks are forgetting that most of the posters here went to US schools where anything under 80% is regarded as fairly bad, and anything under 70% is borderline failing.

This.  We've got game review "inflation" like we have grade "inflation."  According to most game sites a game of 6 still falls into the "fair" catagory, but my god, if a game gets a 6 you would think it was a stinker that doesn't deserve to be played.  It really takes a nearly unplayable game to get less than a 5 it seems like.   You seem to get at least a 4 on a pc game if it simply boots up and runs longer than an hour without crashing.

Originally posted by ltank

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Originally posted by ltank

The average or "artihmetic mean" of 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 is 5.00.

 

NEXT!

 

However, that "average" is redundant. I was under the impression that we are talking about "average" MMORPG here? That's the only average that makes sense of refering to.  

You're just trying to muddy the waters now. If 0 is a vaporare MMO and 10 is the greatest MMO ever then 5 would obviously be Average on that scale. I don't see why this is so hard. The majority of voters scored TOR above average in all catagories.

Why don't we just take what the OP gave us rather than assign our own values to it?  The Op gave us the scale already 10 perfect, 9 Excellent, 8 Great, 7 Good, 6 Okay (to me this means average on the scale that is in use) 5 passable, 4 bad, 1-3 terrable.  There seem to be arguments over what "average" is.  Well average on a ordinal scale (which this is) means different things to different people.  It is much better to simply use the lables and scale that the OP presented us with so we are all using the same terms.  I guess we can debate over whether "okay" means average or "passable" means average, but that is a fairly meaningless argument because it means something different to different people.  I agree that using a cutoff of 7 is arbitrary, but, he defined that as meaning "not great" not "bad."  I would tend to think that on the scale that the op used that a 7 or better would indicate a person was going to buy, or at least seriously consider buying the game.  But I can't know for sure because I am sure that for some people simply "passable" is enough to get them to buy it and others it needs to be "okay" and others won't accapt anything other than "great."  

In sum (sorry for the long post) lets just take the scale that the OP gave us rather than applying some other scale to the survey.

Originally posted by ShaunJ1380

You know what I find neat.

If you go to the official forums, or even here for that matter, every thread is doom and gloom. Yet in every poll, or every positive thread, the majority of people say (or vote) favorable things about the game.

Do you think the majority of poeple like the game, and perhasp the haters are the vocal minority?

 

 

As a moderator on another MMO site I can tell you the majority are the complainers, trolls and **** disturbers.  Not only do they post more negatively they do it trying to get people to agree with them like their opinions matter more

Originally posted by Supersoups

I gave 8 for everything other than character creation which i rated 5.

Wow, same.

Originally posted by eluldor

Originally posted by Supersoups

I gave 8 for everything other than character creation which i rated 5.

Wow, same.

Yea, I wouldn't have put graphics and character creation in one. I would give the graphics 7 but the character creator 4.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by ShaunJ1380

You know what I find neat.

If you go to the official forums, or even here for that matter, every thread is doom and gloom. Yet in every poll, or every positive thread, the majority of people say (or vote) favorable things about the game.

Do you think the majority of poeple like the game, and perhasp the haters are the vocal minority?

 

 

 

What I find neat is the psychology of people who never have much to say, but rate just about everything a 7 or 8.  I'm not just talking about gaming, either.  Seems like the world is full of centrists who just generally like stuff, and sway all trends towards mass production and mediocrity.

 

They're difficult to predict, though, because despite liking something, they can be fickle and easily distracted.  Just because they vote one way doesn't mean they won't vote for the opposition a week later.

 

I don't see how you think a "centrist" would give something a 7 or 8.  That isn't "middle of the road" that is "good"  a centrist would give a game (on the scale the op presented) a 5 or 6 meaning passable or average.  I can only imagine that someone with a certain ideology (meaning not centrist) would say that a 7 or 8 is centrist.