Originally posted by InFaVilla

Originally posted by ltank

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Originally posted by Praetalus

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Let me summarize the poll results so far (200+ votes when I write this):

 

Story: 69.3% voted "Great or better" (8+) and 30.7% voted "Good or worse" (7-)

Combat/Gameplay: 50.4% voted 8+ and 49.6% voted 7-

Graphics/Character Design: 34.1% voted 8+ and 65.9% voted 7-

Group Content/World Content: 54.2% voted 8+ and 45.8% voted 7-

Companions/Crew Skills: 64.8% voted 8+ and 35.2% voted 7-

---------------------------------

 

As you can see from the numbers, there is a large amount of people, although not a majority, who think that SWTOR is currently not that great. 

 

We can also see that SWTOR gets high points in Story in Companions/Crew skills categories. Which is what is expected. Far from perfect scores, but nonetheless good ones.

 

We also see that a majority didn't think the Graphics/Character design was that great. 

Umm.... your review of the review is done is a very poor design. You're saying 7 and under is bad...LOL - You obviously don't like the game and are making your review reflect your personaly opinion... Do you work for Fox news by chance?

No, I am saying that "7 and under" is "not that great". Not saying that it is bad.

You said 7- is not that great but if 5 is the middle ground then that is what we call average. The majorities of all votes were 7+ so the majority of voters thing the game ABOVE average.

 

Anyway my votes turned out to mirror the community in every catagory.

 

Let me educate you about what average is: average is the common terminology for the "arithmetic mean" which is "the sum of all involved numbers divided with the total amount of involved numbers".

 

If we take a look at all the 2011 MMORPGS and rate their graphics individually with a poll similar to this one: do you really think that the average will be 5?  I am strongly certain of that the average will land on 7 or higher. 

The average or "artihmetic mean" of 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 is 5.00.

NEXT!

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Let me summarize the poll results so far (200+ votes when I write this):

 

Story: 69.3% voted "Great or better" (8+) and 30.7% voted "Good or worse" (7-)

Combat/Gameplay: 50.4% voted 8+ and 49.6% voted 7-

Graphics/Character Design: 34.1% voted 8+ and 65.9% voted 7-

Group Content/World Content: 54.2% voted 8+ and 45.8% voted 7-

Companions/Crew Skills: 64.8% voted 8+ and 35.2% voted 7-

---------------------------------

 

As you can see from the numbers, there is a large amount of people, although not a majority, who think that SWTOR is currently not that great. 

 

We can also see that SWTOR gets high points in Story in Companions/Crew skills categories. Which is what is expected. Far from perfect scores, but nonetheless good ones.

 

We also see that a majority didn't think the Graphics/Character design was that great. 

Anything less than 7 means the game is bad? That's a bit harsh and shows bias towards making the game look bad.

A better way to do it would be to say 1-4 is bad, 5-7 is okay, and 8-10 is great. (I'm not included those who voted just to see results so figures won't add up to 100%)(These are results after about 240 votes (261 for story which is a bit ahead))

 

Story: 3.9% bad, 25.6% okay, 64.4% great

 

Combat/Gameplay: 9.1% bad, 39.3% okay, 47.5% great

 

Graphics: 17.2% bad, 45.4% okay, 33.2% great

 

Content: 10.2% bad, 34.4% okay, 47.7% great

 

Companions: 6.8% bad, 24.6% okay, 62.5%

 

Average out that across the 5 categories: 9.44% bad, 33.8% okay, 51.06% great

 

So shall we say that there's roughly a 55% to 45% majority that thinks the game is great rather than okay or bad?

 

Okay, I don't know how that is for quality of maths. I'm sure there'll be mathematicians out there tutting at me. Let's be honest though, and say the result is pretty much smack down the middle, as you'd expect on a forum where some will like the game and some won't. If anything there's more people voting the game good rather than bad.

 

 Exactly! That is much more indicative to reflecting how this poll looks. I'm sorry infavilla, but you claiming anything at 7 or below as bad, is not good representation at all!

I wish you wouldnt have put companions and crew skills togeather. While I thought the crew skills where an interesting idea I HATE forcing companions on people. It turns every class into a pet class like it or not and I do not like pet classes. That was the only thing I put terrible on. The rest where good and up. I dont like themeparks but as a themepark they did things well.

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Let me summarize the poll results so far (200+ votes when I write this):

 

Story: 69.3% voted "Great or better" (8+) and 30.7% voted "Good or worse" (7-)

Combat/Gameplay: 50.4% voted 8+ and 49.6% voted 7-

Graphics/Character Design: 34.1% voted 8+ and 65.9% voted 7-

Group Content/World Content: 54.2% voted 8+ and 45.8% voted 7-

Companions/Crew Skills: 64.8% voted 8+ and 35.2% voted 7-

---------------------------------

 

As you can see from the numbers, there is a large amount of people, although not a majority, who think that SWTOR is currently not that great. 

 

We can also see that SWTOR gets high points in Story in Companions/Crew skills categories. Which is what is expected. Far from perfect scores, but nonetheless good ones.

 

We also see that a majority didn't think the Graphics/Character design was that great. 

Anything less than 7 means the game is bad? That's a bit harsh and shows bias towards making the game look bad.

A better way to do it would be to say 1-4 is bad, 5-7 is okay, and 8-10 is great. (I'm not included those who voted just to see results so figures won't add up to 100%)(These are results after about 240 votes (261 for story which is a bit ahead))

 

Story: 3.9% bad, 25.6% okay, 64.4% great

 

Combat/Gameplay: 9.1% bad, 39.3% okay, 47.5% great

 

Graphics: 17.2% bad, 45.4% okay, 33.2% great

 

Content: 10.2% bad, 34.4% okay, 47.7% great

 

Companions: 6.8% bad, 24.6% okay, 62.5%

 

Average out that across the 5 categories: 9.44% bad, 33.8% okay, 51.06% great

 

So shall we say that there's roughly a 55% to 45% majority that thinks the game is great rather than okay or bad?

 

Okay, I don't know how that is for quality of maths. I'm sure there'll be mathematicians out there tutting at me. Let's be honest though, and say the result is pretty much smack down the middle, as you'd expect on a forum where some will like the game and some won't. If anything there's more people voting the game good rather than bad.

 

 Exactly! That is much more indicative to reflecting how this poll looks. I'm sorry infavilla, but you claiming anything at 7 or below as bad, is not good representation at all!

 I would say anything under 5 is bad. Since 5 would be the average of the scale he is using.

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Let me summarize the poll results so far (200+ votes when I write this):

 

Story: 69.3% voted "Great or better" (8+) and 30.7% voted "Good or worse" (7-)

Combat/Gameplay: 50.4% voted 8+ and 49.6% voted 7-

Graphics/Character Design: 34.1% voted 8+ and 65.9% voted 7-

Group Content/World Content: 54.2% voted 8+ and 45.8% voted 7-

Companions/Crew Skills: 64.8% voted 8+ and 35.2% voted 7-

---------------------------------

 

As you can see from the numbers, there is a large amount of people, although not a majority, who think that SWTOR is currently not that great. 

 

We can also see that SWTOR gets high points in Story in Companions/Crew skills categories. Which is what is expected. Far from perfect scores, but nonetheless good ones.

 

We also see that a majority didn't think the Graphics/Character design was that great. 

Anything less than 7 means the game is bad? That's a bit harsh and shows bias towards making the game look bad.

A better way to do it would be to say 1-4 is bad, 5-7 is okay, and 8-10 is great. (I'm not included those who voted just to see results so figures won't add up to 100%)(These are results after about 240 votes (261 for story which is a bit ahead))

 

Story: 3.9% bad, 25.6% okay, 64.4% great

 

Combat/Gameplay: 9.1% bad, 39.3% okay, 47.5% great

 

Graphics: 17.2% bad, 45.4% okay, 33.2% great

 

Content: 10.2% bad, 34.4% okay, 47.7% great

 

Companions: 6.8% bad, 24.6% okay, 62.5%

 

Average out that across the 5 categories: 9.44% bad, 33.8% okay, 51.06% great

 

So shall we say that there's roughly a 55% to 45% majority that thinks the game is great rather than okay or bad?

 

Okay, I don't know how that is for quality of maths. I'm sure there'll be mathematicians out there tutting at me. Let's be honest though, and say the result is pretty much smack down the middle, as you'd expect on a forum where some will like the game and some won't. If anything there's more people voting the game good rather than bad.

 

I don't think "not that great" is equivalent with "bad", but maybe that expression has a very different tone in different parts of the world? My intention was to split the population in those that felt that the game was great or better (which probably means that they intend to buy it) and do not feel as strong about the game as it is now.

What I expect, since this is in AAA game, is that the grand majority will at least vote it for passable. I can very well play something that is passable for some time, but will I pay to play a such game and will I stay in such game if I just think it is passable? Most likely not. 

As far as I understand, the critics of this game, have not said that this game is passable. They've just pointed out several flaws in which Bioware could have done better. It is perfectbly possible to be a critic and still find the overall game to be "okay", even "good" and rarely even "great", but "good" may simply not be enough to warrant a purchase, sucscription and an extension of subscription. They may require more to convince themselves to invest in a game.

------------------------------

As for your way to presenting the statistics of this poll, it has it merits as well and it is a different perspective. I do appriciate that you took your time and compiled the statistics according to your view.

Originally posted by Nazgol

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Let me summarize the poll results so far (200+ votes when I write this):

 

Story: 69.3% voted "Great or better" (8+) and 30.7% voted "Good or worse" (7-)

Combat/Gameplay: 50.4% voted 8+ and 49.6% voted 7-

Graphics/Character Design: 34.1% voted 8+ and 65.9% voted 7-

Group Content/World Content: 54.2% voted 8+ and 45.8% voted 7-

Companions/Crew Skills: 64.8% voted 8+ and 35.2% voted 7-

---------------------------------

 

As you can see from the numbers, there is a large amount of people, although not a majority, who think that SWTOR is currently not that great. 

 

We can also see that SWTOR gets high points in Story in Companions/Crew skills categories. Which is what is expected. Far from perfect scores, but nonetheless good ones.

 

We also see that a majority didn't think the Graphics/Character design was that great. 

Anything less than 7 means the game is bad? That's a bit harsh and shows bias towards making the game look bad.

A better way to do it would be to say 1-4 is bad, 5-7 is okay, and 8-10 is great. (I'm not included those who voted just to see results so figures won't add up to 100%)(These are results after about 240 votes (261 for story which is a bit ahead))

 

Story: 3.9% bad, 25.6% okay, 64.4% great

 

Combat/Gameplay: 9.1% bad, 39.3% okay, 47.5% great

 

Graphics: 17.2% bad, 45.4% okay, 33.2% great

 

Content: 10.2% bad, 34.4% okay, 47.7% great

 

Companions: 6.8% bad, 24.6% okay, 62.5%

 

Average out that across the 5 categories: 9.44% bad, 33.8% okay, 51.06% great

 

So shall we say that there's roughly a 55% to 45% majority that thinks the game is great rather than okay or bad?

 

Okay, I don't know how that is for quality of maths. I'm sure there'll be mathematicians out there tutting at me. Let's be honest though, and say the result is pretty much smack down the middle, as you'd expect on a forum where some will like the game and some won't. If anything there's more people voting the game good rather than bad.

 

 Exactly! That is much more indicative to reflecting how this poll looks. I'm sorry infavilla, but you claiming anything at 7 or below as bad, is not good representation at all!

 I would say anything under 5 is bad. Since 5 would be the average of the scale he is using.

Lol, well alright then. So that means everything over 5 is great. And when you run the numbers like that, the numbers blow up even higher! It don't matter really I guess everyone has there own views on how a 1-10 scale works. But, I can tell you that not being a MIT educated person here, that I do know that the "average" between 1-10 is 5!

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

 

 

 Exactly! That is much more indicative to reflecting how this poll looks. I'm sorry infavilla, but you claiming anything at 7 or below as bad, is not good representation at all!

I agree that saying anything at 7 or below is bad is rather silly. However I dont blame Blackrayn for saying it. If you look at most "Professional" reviewers from game sites or G4TV thats how the judge everything now. If they are payed to like the game (and dont tell me they arent, you are lieing to yourself) they will stick a score of 8 on it and say "hey this game is awesome". If they are payed to like it and they ACTUALLY like it they give it a score of 9-10.

Verry few places give honest, non paid reviews of games anymore. Most of them have turned the 1-10 scale into a 7-10 scale. So most people who havent been gaming for YEARS and remember when scales actually ran 1-10 dont see a 6 as a possibly good thing. Thats why I really like Steams Meta score. Even a score in the low 70's means you are probably going to be picking up a fairly solid game. But if they where to put 6 or 7/10 next to it alot of people wouldnt even concider the game.

Originally posted by Nazgol

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

...

 

 Exactly! That is much more indicative to reflecting how this poll looks. I'm sorry infavilla, but you claiming anything at 7 or below as bad, is not good representation at all!

 I would say anything under 5 is bad. Since 5 would be the average of the scale he is using.

I think you folks are forgetting that most of the posters here went to US schools where anything under 80% is regarded as fairly bad, and anything under 70% is borderline failing.

Originally posted by ltank

The average or "artihmetic mean" of 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 is 5.00.

 

NEXT!

However, that "average" is redundant. I was under the impression that we are talking about "average" MMORPG here? That's the only average that makes sense of refering to.  

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Originally posted by Nazgol

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

 

Lol, well alright then. So that means everything over 5 is great. And when you run the numbers like that, the numbers blow up even higher! It don't matter really I guess everyone has there own views on how a 1-10 scale works. But, I can tell you that not being a MIT educated person here, that I do know that the "average" between 1-10 is 5!

Now you are just making yourself look silly. Saying anything below 5 is bad is more realistic than saying anything below 7 is bad like you did. If 5 is average then anything under that WOULD be below average/bad. That doesnt mean anything over 5 is great nor did he claim anything over 5 is great. He just said anything under 5 is bad and last I checked anything below average was bad in most scale systems out there.

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Lol, well alright then. So that means everything over 5 is great. And when you run the numbers like that, the numbers blow up even higher! It don't matter really I guess everyone has there own views on how a 1-10 scale works. But, I can tell you that not being a MIT educated person here, that I do know that the "average" between 1-10 is 5!

Yes, but that was not the average I was refering to. I was under the impression that people thought that the ideal average MMORPG is worth 5 in all categories; which I think is a wrong assumption. 

So to reitirate:

if we only look at the numbers of 1-10 scale, then that average X of the numbers in that scale is 5.

if we look at the scores from all modern MMORPG in  1-10 scales, where does the average Y of those scores land? My guess is significantely above 5.

Two different averages, X and Y, where one is far more interesting than the other one. 

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Let me summarize the poll results so far (200+ votes when I write this):

 

Story: 69.3% voted "Great or better" (8+) and 30.7% voted "Good or worse" (7-)

Combat/Gameplay: 50.4% voted 8+ and 49.6% voted 7-

Graphics/Character Design: 34.1% voted 8+ and 65.9% voted 7-

Group Content/World Content: 54.2% voted 8+ and 45.8% voted 7-

Companions/Crew Skills: 64.8% voted 8+ and 35.2% voted 7-

---------------------------------

 

As you can see from the numbers, there is a large amount of people, although not a majority, who think that SWTOR is currently not that great. 

 

We can also see that SWTOR gets high points in Story in Companions/Crew skills categories. Which is what is expected. Far from perfect scores, but nonetheless good ones.

 

We also see that a majority didn't think the Graphics/Character design was that great. 

Anything less than 7 means the game is bad? That's a bit harsh and shows bias towards making the game look bad.

A better way to do it would be to say 1-4 is bad, 5-7 is okay, and 8-10 is great. (I'm not included those who voted just to see results so figures won't add up to 100%)(These are results after about 240 votes (261 for story which is a bit ahead))

 

Story: 3.9% bad, 25.6% okay, 64.4% great

 

Combat/Gameplay: 9.1% bad, 39.3% okay, 47.5% great

 

Graphics: 17.2% bad, 45.4% okay, 33.2% great

 

Content: 10.2% bad, 34.4% okay, 47.7% great

 

Companions: 6.8% bad, 24.6% okay, 62.5%

 

Average out that across the 5 categories: 9.44% bad, 33.8% okay, 51.06% great

 

So shall we say that there's roughly a 55% to 45% majority that thinks the game is great rather than okay or bad?

 

Okay, I don't know how that is for quality of maths. I'm sure there'll be mathematicians out there tutting at me. Let's be honest though, and say the result is pretty much smack down the middle, as you'd expect on a forum where some will like the game and some won't. If anything there's more people voting the game good rather than bad.

 

 

I don't think "not that great" is equivalent with "bad", but maybe that expression has a very different tone in different parts of the world? My intention was to split the population in those that felt that the game was great or better (which probably means that they intend to buy it) and do not feel as strong about the game as it is now.

 

What I expect, since this is in AAA game, is that the grand majority will at least vote it for passable. I can very well play something that is passable for some time, but will I pay to play a such game and will I stay in such game if I just think it is passable? Most likely not. 

 

As far as I understand, the critics of this game, have not said that this game is passable. They've just pointed out several flaws in which Bioware could have done better. It is perfectbly possible to be a critic and still find the overall game to be "okay", even "good" and rarely even "great", but "good" may simply not be enough to warrant a purchase, sucscription and an extension of subscription. They may require more to convince themselves to invest in a game.

------------------------------

 

As for your way to presenting the statistics of this poll, it has it merits as well and it is a different perspective. I do appriciate that you took your time and compiled the statistics according to your view.

You contradict yourself in so many ways! So then with that statement right there, you will be playing this game for a long time! Why? Cause the majority of these votes are at 7+ Not 5 or passable on this scale (but yet still the average of 1-10) and since you will not stay in a game that grand majority will vote it as passable, then you have nothing to worry about, cause the grand majority is voting it higher then just passable!

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Originally posted by ltank

The average or "artihmetic mean" of 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 is 5.00.

 

NEXT!

 

However, that "average" is redundant. I was under the impression that we are talking about "average" MMORPG here? That's the only average that makes sense of refering to.  

You're just trying to muddy the waters now. If 0 is a vaporare MMO and 10 is the greatest MMO ever then 5 would obviously be Average on that scale. I don't see why this is so hard. The majority of voters scored TOR above average in all catagories.

Originally posted by Praetalus

Wow.. I voted about a 9 average, as I was very impressed in most areas. It looks like most of the community so far is right around there also. 

I know graphics are subjective, but you honestly thought Combat was a 9? I don't see how anyone who has played something other than WoW could ever, ever think that (and I assume you've played many games, like most of us here). I think perhaps I expect too much out of my MMOs and my standards aren't realistic with the tepid mediocrity that is getting rehashed these days.

Can you help me understand why you rated Combat so high, please? I'm curious.

Originally posted by Blackrayn

 

You contradict yourself in so many ways! So then with that statement right there, you will be playing this game for a long time! Why? Cause the majority of these votes are at 7+ Not 5 or passable on this scale (but yet still the average of 1-10) and since you will not stay in a game that grand majority will vote it as passable, then you have nothing to worry about, cause the grand majority is voting it higher then just passable!

I see that I was not clear enough in making a distinction between who thinks it is passable.

If I find the game, according to my opinion, to just be passable, I can consider playing it for some time, but probably not pay for it and keep on playing it after a few months. 

If many people are giving it 7+ votes, then that is a sign for me to at least try it out unless another game has captured my attention. 

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Let me summarize the poll results so far (200+ votes when I write this):

 

Story: 69.3% voted "Great or better" (8+) and 30.7% voted "Good or worse" (7-)

Combat/Gameplay: 50.4% voted 8+ and 49.6% voted 7-

Graphics/Character Design: 34.1% voted 8+ and 65.9% voted 7-

Group Content/World Content: 54.2% voted 8+ and 45.8% voted 7-

Companions/Crew Skills: 64.8% voted 8+ and 35.2% voted 7-

---------------------------------

 

As you can see from the numbers, there is a large amount of people, although not a majority, who think that SWTOR is currently not that great. 

 

We can also see that SWTOR gets high points in Story in Companions/Crew skills categories. Which is what is expected. Far from perfect scores, but nonetheless good ones.

 

We also see that a majority didn't think the Graphics/Character design was that great. 

What utter nonsense.   I'm not particularily fond of this game, but this is such a poor post that I had to comment.

I tried to put together a snarky and biting reply, but this is such a horrible attempt to rip a game and so poorly constructed, that there's nothing that I could add, as even the even the most mentally-challenged individual could see this post for the time-wasting garbage that it is.

Regarding the graphics, I would hope that most people who follow MMOs would instantly recognize Bioware/EA's decision to put the graphics at a lower point in order to maximize the number of potential customers (some of which simply cannot invest in a high-end machine).  Just smart business.

To the OP: Simply say the game doesn't appeal to you and be done with it.

I love the idea. Its cool to have an overall opinion all in one place.

I gave story the highest rating of the lot, and the companion the second highest. I will buy and play this game for the story alone. Companions, and the different skills are just a fun and cool concept.

I really had fun in the pvp instances. I normally hate when its not open world, but they are made well... I can't believe hutball is one of my favorites. the bolstering was an interesting concept as well.

The combat is a bit clunky at times, but overall its accpetable.

The guy who didn't like the jedi stories doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I loved the consular story. My favorite was bounty hunter by far though. Their responses are so epic.

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Originally posted by Nazgol

Originally posted by Blackrayn

Originally posted by holifeet

Originally posted by InFaVilla

 

Lol, well alright then. So that means everything over 5 is great. And when you run the numbers like that, the numbers blow up even higher! It don't matter really I guess everyone has there own views on how a 1-10 scale works. But, I can tell you that not being a MIT educated person here, that I do know that the "average" between 1-10 is 5!

Now you are just making yourself look silly. Saying anything below 5 is bad is more realistic than saying anything below 7 is bad like you did. If 5 is average then anything under that WOULD be below average/bad. That doesnt mean anything over 5 is great nor did he claim anything over 5 is great. He just said anything under 5 is bad and last I checked anything below average was bad in most scale systems out there.

 Very true! Will not ever argue that. That is why in the previous post of what holifeet posted I claimed it was better representation of how a 1-10 scale works. And even more importantly, an acurate reading to how the poll is playing out. And not trying to look silly, I'm just trying to further prove the point of how interpreted others are viewing a 1-10 scale.

I pretty much voted OK or Good for those polls. Which was my honest opinion.

Interested to see the results after a few days.

Originally posted by ltank

Originally posted by InFaVilla

Originally posted by ltank

The average or "artihmetic mean" of 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 is 5.00.

 

NEXT!

 

However, that "average" is redundant. I was under the impression that we are talking about "average" MMORPG here? That's the only average that makes sense of refering to.  

You're just trying to muddy the waters now. If 0 is a vaporare MMO and 10 is the greatest MMO ever then 5 would obviously be Average on that scale. I don't see why this is so hard. The majority of voters scored TOR above average in all catagories.

Scores are meant to be used for comparison, right? Assuming that assumption is correct, we need to ask ourselves: with what are we comparing? If we are comparing with other AAA MMORPGS, then I very much doubt that the average score when you look at the individual scores of those AAA MMORPGS lands on 5.  To ask "Is SWTOR well above average compared to other AAA mmorpgs?" is a very important question, don't you think so?

Even if we allow to include more than just AAA MMORPGS, and start including other modern MMORPGS, will a 5 in the poll reflect "the average of all scores of all the relevant MMORPGS in that category"? I don't think so.

Let me remind both you and myself, that is really important to keep track of which "averages" we are talking about and how interesting those averages are.