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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Mirrored Classes

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287 posts found
  User Deleted
11/30/11 8:54:02 AM#21

There were moments when I instinctually thought that there was cross faction balancing going on in PvP instances. A closer look at the gear and player, and I would of course realize my error.

I can't argue against the lack of ingenuity/imagination, but I have witnessed what poor balancing can do to games (WAR).

It's just one of the few shortcomings I'm willing to put aside.

  Taiyoh

Novice Member

Joined: 9/04/07
Posts: 48

11/30/11 8:59:52 AM#22

So, what about this is so different from other MMO's then? Many MMO's with factions have the same classes. At least in SWTOR the 'mirrored classes' at least have a different look, different animations, different storyline, and different style overall. Sure, the Bounty Hunter is similiar to Trooper, but who cares? It's just so one side doesn't have a significant advantage over the other in terms of class choice. At least we don't have Republic Trooper VS Imperial Trooper or anything. And even with the similiar playstyles, I'd still play all of them eventually just for the Storylines.


  Grizzkhit

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/08
Posts: 11

11/30/11 9:02:50 AM#23

Seems the author forgot that you choose an advanced class in Swtor at level 10, so you basically just have to choose another path on your mirror class to get a completely different playstyle.


  User Deleted
11/30/11 9:02:54 AM#24

I think if there was absolutely no PVP in the game, you could have differing classes because it wouldn't affect faction balance.  You can sort of see the impact with races in WoW, but even Blizzard made sure both sides got a new race... imagine if Worgen were the only new race in Cata... how many more Alliance there would have been compared to Horde.  Simple proof in the pudding would be to deny say the Alliance the Panda race and deny the Horde the Monk class.  Watch as faction imbalances appear just because they want to be a Panda or a Monk.  Faction imbalance kills PVP incredibly fast... and the usual culprit is the lack of a "mirrored" race or class on both sides.  You always have to have a counter class or you might as well say, play this class or lose.

  Narcin1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 163

11/30/11 9:06:53 AM#25

I cast my support of mirrored classes. For this excuse, which you mentioned: balance.  I played a jedi knight, and then a sith warrior. Yes their moves are basically the same, but at least they had different animations and a different storyline. That is enough uniqueness for me. 


Issue with balance that this author did not seem to address (or I may have missed, being an illiterate child) is faction balance, which is what mirrored classes hope to accomplish.  Class balance should be expected to be off at all times, but I do not believe there should ever be an issue between faction balance.  I do not like the author's "so what?" comment about this balance, because for me, someone who likes engaging in PvP on a regular basis, that is a huge issue.  I do not want to be victim to that weaker faction, and get my butt handed to me every time I am in a background because my faction's classes got nerfed and the opposing got buffed.  That whole problem is excused by introducing the mirrored classes.


But I do not see why this is such a major gripe.  Check this out:


Still 8 main specs


Still 8 different storylines


AND most importantly, by making a little effort with mirrored classes, creating new looks, skins, gear, and abilities (even if containing same functions as mirrored class skills)...the old republic team has gone to make essentially two completely unique factions in term of style.


 


I know I will get called a fanboy by TOR hatemonger crowd for this post, but I really do not care. I have supplied my reasons, and I do not want imbalanced factions. Also, I may have changed my mind if I weren't intrested in PvP...but I am. Unbalanced factions is just a concept I cannot accept in an MMORPG. I want to play huttball fairly.


Argh

  tawess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 2004

11/30/11 9:06:58 AM#26

I have to ask.... Have we had ANY AAA game in recent memory that had two or more factions and no mirroring...?


 


Just being curious


Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  knightaudit

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/06/05
Posts: 246

Those are my thoughts, not yours

11/30/11 9:19:03 AM#27

Call it a mirror class if you will but in all fairness, they are 2 sides and though the game play will be the same .. you will not have Sith Troopers, or Republic Bounty Hunters.


The idea of Mirrored sideds is nice... you will not be 100% sure what the other side has up is sleave in PVP .. not like WOW where a Warrior on Horde or Alliance is still a warrior.


I think the key to SWTOR is that it is a very strong story based game and that story is what is key .. not that the trooper and the bounty hunter are mirrors of each others class.


  Paragus1

Highlighted Blogger

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 1750

Co-Leader of Inquisition
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11/30/11 9:20:28 AM#28
Originally posted by Keogh

{mod edit{

 

This is a gaming website.

  Herodes

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/03
Posts: 1488

Consumer

11/30/11 9:21:31 AM#29

The saddest thing is: todays shooters seem to have more classes than todays mmorpgs.

  Urvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/28/04
Posts: 641

"How do you prove that you exist..? Maybe we don't exist.." Vivi, Final Fantasy IX

11/30/11 9:23:24 AM#30

In ways I kind of agree with this as I was quite dissapointed to find Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior were so identical right down to the actual skills they had, same name, same type of ability and damage, same icon except different colour.  I had already played Sith and took it up to Marauder so you can imagine why I was a bit dissapointed that Jedi Knight wasn't even remotely different til Advance Class decision time.  I chose to even be Guardian just cus I knew Sentinal would still be that identical to Sith Marauder and I didn't end up wanting to play the same class again when I wanted a slightly different experiance from it.  However, the other way to look at this is alot of games do mirrior classes or worse, provide all classes for both sides of the field. As much as I hate referring to WoW, this is a prime example of a game giving both sides the same class, especially recently, the only thing they did to reduce its common use was restrict races from using certain classes, but these days both factions have their fair share of the class pool so either side can easily have a fair ammount of the same class, and there is no uniqueness to either faction when playing it.  Same thing has gone for EQ2, though we used to have counterpart mirrors for the opposing faction, SOE has decided to let both factions tap into all classes now which to me was rather "meh" but yeah, they did it, probably to preserve balance through lazyness I don't know, but thats another example of a game that has gone the same way.  Oh and lets also take SWG for another example, whats to stop any player from either faction to choose any build they desire? you could have Sith powers as a friggin Rebel or be more like a Jedi as a friggin Empire! That game simply had no faction restrictions at all! Though personally I do like the freedom to just be what I want to be regardless of faction so imo in some cases this is a good thing.  There are two ways to look at it is how I see it and to be bashing this game because of something that has already been done over and over before it is rather pathetic if you ask me.  Sure BioWare might have been able to do something about it but you have to understand the ammount of difficultues trying to find balance to carebears in PVP that can make or brake a game.  Anyway, thats my viewpoint of it all, I've said my piece.




  Pyuk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 659

11/30/11 9:24:38 AM#31

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Those of you who are against mirriored classes, are the minority, plain and simple... 





 


Really? And how did you come to that factual conclusion? I'd venture to say that the majority of modern MMORPG players are looking for uniqueness - something different. Having mirrored classes is counter to uniqueness. Classes don't have to be so different that it requires an MBA to fully grok the class abiities, but some differentiation would be nice, especially in a Star Wars game.


I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  RavingRabbid

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/09
Posts: 1131

Remember Rabbids cant play MMO's, but they can dance!

11/30/11 9:28:14 AM#32

You have a damned if you do and damned if you dont scenario here. if you have variety then ppl will be screaming and derping for a class to be nerfed. On the other hand you have the people that will say familiarity makes things boring. Personally I just wanna play the game and have fun. I enjoyed playing the Sorc and sage this passed beta weekend and part of me enjoyed the slight fmailiararity.

****Raving rabbid is petitoning Mr. Lucas to have the Darth Vader theme song name changed to Darth Rabbid theme song!***

All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: SWTOR, Marvel Heroes and WOT.

  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

11/30/11 9:29:32 AM#33

I think its brilliance from a balance perspective. They DID succees in givng each of the classes their own distinct flavor, and mirrored abilities have very different animations, sounds and general "feel", so knowing that they are mirrored wont hurt me as a player.

Lack of diversity in races and overall character creation blandness is a much bigger concern to me personally.

  MikeB

MMORPG.com Community Manager

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 5443

 
OP  11/30/11 9:33:36 AM#34

Originally posted by Grizzkhit

Seems the author forgot that you choose an advanced class in Swtor at level 10, so you basically just have to choose another path on your mirror class to get a completely different playstyle.





 


These are identical to their mirror's counterparts as well. Vanguard (Trooper) == Powertech (Bounty Hunter).


Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

  ABRaquel

Tipster

Joined: 1/19/04
Posts: 541

The air feels damp and oppressive, like a wet nun.

11/30/11 9:33:58 AM#35
Originally posted by timtrack

Wait, this is a game-breaker? Isn't every MMO like this? Except they don't have "mirrored" classes, they have the SAME classes for each faction.

I agree.

Is there really any other MMORPG that doesn't have class mirroring?

The only MMO that I recall that actually ended offering something unique to each faction was WoW Vanilla where Paladins where Alliance only and Shamans Horde only.

  teakbois

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 2190

11/30/11 9:39:00 AM#36

Originally posted by timtrack

Wait, this is a game-breaker? Isn't every MMO like this? Except they don't have "mirrored" classes, they have the SAME classes for each faction.





 


DAoC certainly was not mirrored.


 


Mirrored isnt ok when you basically have 4 classes in the entire game because of it.


  RavingRabbid

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/09
Posts: 1131

Remember Rabbids cant play MMO's, but they can dance!

11/30/11 9:39:10 AM#37
Originally posted by DarkPony

I think its brilliance from a balance perspective. They DID succees in givng each of the classes their own distinct flavor, and mirrored abilities have very different animations, sounds and general "feel", so knowing that they are mirrored wont hurt me as a player.

Lack of diversity in races and overall character creation blandness is a much bigger concern to me personally.

Agreed! They need alot more races and a better character creater. Alot of the hairstyles are horrible and having a choice to choose "Brick from borderlands game" body style is downright silly.

***Raises plunger in salute to the Hot and declicious Darth Talon!***

All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: SWTOR, Marvel Heroes and WOT.

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

11/30/11 9:39:35 AM#38

As much as variety is great, balance in the long term is the way to go. Alot less bitching, and definately alot less nerfing involved. I much prefer the mirroored classes, by a long shot.

  Urvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/28/04
Posts: 641

"How do you prove that you exist..? Maybe we don't exist.." Vivi, Final Fantasy IX

11/30/11 9:40:11 AM#39
Originally posted by DarkPony

I think its brilliance from a balance perspective. They DID succees in givng each of the classes their own distinct flavor, and mirrored abilities have very different animations, sounds and general "feel", so knowing that they are mirrored wont hurt me as a player.

Lack of diversity in races and overall character creation blandness is a much bigger concern to me personally.

I totally agree with Dark Pony here, I was more concerned over character creation than I was over the whole class is so indentical thing.  What even concerned me more was the race I would have never exepcted to see as a Jedi really were the Zabrak when I had expected to see at least a couple of races you more commonly familiar with as a jedi that weren't available to you.  Same goes for any other class/race availablity really, I mean whats to stop a wookie from being a range user using its bowcaster? why can't we play it? tbh I didn't even see this as a companion, that was rather dissapointing for me.  Also the fact that we hardly have much options when it comes to actually creating the character, I can't believe they didn't make it possible to make your character look a little more unique rather than have generic options and available to all so everyone looked like a friggin clone almost.



  Kaynos1972

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/04
Posts: 2323

11/30/11 9:40:20 AM#40

It all goes down to the basic, Tank, DPS, Range and Healer classes.....

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