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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Mirrored Classes

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287 posts found
  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4113

12/07/11 8:01:04 AM#281
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by elocke

I don't see the advanced classes being that varied.  I really don't.  This isn't like Rift where you have one character and literally 5 dfferent roles built off of 8 distinct callings.  This is your base class that either specializes in healing, dps or tanking.  3 roles.  And the overlap is quite noticeable.  

No, you are wrong. Lets use the Sith Sorceror as an example. One talent spec turns you into a healer. One talent spec turns you into a direct damage nuking class. And the last talent spec turns you into a cc / damage over time class. And thats only one of the advanced classes (there are 8 not including the mirror classes). The other advanced class for Inquisitor - the Sith Assassin - can spec into tanking, stealth / damage or damage over time / cc (melee variant).

Yes they share some base abilities, but there are key AA at 10, 20 and 30 point intervals. Its actually cleverly worked out, you can only ever have 3 key abilities if you decide to multi spec. And most heal and tank specs require a full investment in that tree.

Comparing it to Rift is a bit of a joke. Even WOW requires more thought than playing Rift. The skills and roles in SWTOR are actually meaningful and you cant just shove them into a super macro.

Sorry, I disagree.  Let's just leave it at that.  It's one thing to present your argument with the SWTOR details, but then you just blindly generalize with WoW and Rift, thereby losing any credibility you had going into this retort.  I find the Rift class trees extremely diverse and varying and different enough.  When I played SWTOR, the trees didn't seem quite as diverse, they were fairly cookie cutter.  Now of course, we both know talent tree systems, since that what WoW, Rift and SWTOR use, are always changing with content patches and balance patches, so this whole argument about the trees themselves will probably be moot in the long run.  At least, it is for me.

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  boincman

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/10
Posts: 99

12/07/11 7:14:44 PM#282

Played in beta and leveled every class to around 12 or so.  The only two classes that I really felt were "mirrored" were the Jedi Knight and the Sith Warrior.  All of the others in my experience were diff.


 


  Deviane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 106

12/08/11 4:44:23 AM#283

i loved the way  warhammer ahve those similar  or counter classes but not identical....but i hated the way some classes was overpowered in rift...yeah  rift is much harder to balance...but why i passed to want a  unique style in a game  like war and  a standard one in a game like rift? 


 


the answer is  cry babies, the whinies,those randome complaints on general chat and specially in forums...i passed from not  listening  or paying attention to them in War to look for build and listen to balance issues in Rift


it was my mistake and i think is the mistake of most ppl like some say a class can be nerfed to death and destroyed by complaints that maybe was not even fair in first place...so before game go to the unique class system  we as players should learn to shut  the f"uck up and try harder instead  if  whine all over


maybe BW is doing the right  choice as less balance is needed more players will be happy even if that implies less classes to play and try



 


  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

12/09/11 6:28:11 PM#284
Originally posted by DOGMA1138

Most MMO's today either have "mirrored" classes or "mirrored" factions, the only issue with ToR is that there are 3 classes for each faction, the AC's are more like spec's/talent trees since more than half of your abilities still come from the core class which means weather you fight a sage or a shadow, a guardian or a sentinal they will still share a large portion of their bag of tricks. This while it might add some benefits to ballancing the game alltough from playing for 4 days straight the game is even less ballanced than when WoW's paladins used to 1 shot any undead player(pre patch 0.3 or what's it 4 during the beta) it causes the game to lack variety especially in PVP.

IMO they should've left the core classes as a standalone class and made the AC standalone core classes the advanced class system was one of the more annoying things in Tabula Rasa for me. AC's need to mean somthing picking one at level 10 seems to be too underwhealming and meaningless, AC's should've been left for an expansion or the end game, what TOR did just feels like a very lenghty class selection during the char creation phase..

I don't see why people are suddenly in a jiffy about SWTOR's Advanced Classes and have so much trouble understanding them, it's almost as if they haven't played any MMORPG's at all

EQ2 had a system where you picked a general class at L1 and then picked your specialised class at L20, just like SWTOR.

AoC uses a general class, within which all the specialised classes share a talent tree, just like SWTOR.

Aion made you pick a general class (1 of 4) at L1, and made you pick your specialised class at L10, just like SWTOR.

 

In all these MMO's, EQ2, AoC, and Aion, all these specialised classes were considered separate classes just like the classes in other MMORPG's. Yet suddenly when it comes to SWTOR, people have trouble understanding the whole concept of Advanced Classes as separate classes, the same concept already seen and used in former AAA MMO's...

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  Bladefangs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/19/12
Posts: 1

2/19/12 4:09:46 PM#285

The original post is actually completely inaccurate. The OP says that "if you’ve played a Smuggler, you’ve played an Imperial Agent, and if you’ve played a Bounty Hunter, you’ve played a Trooper".


Each of these classes has two advanced classes that are widely different than each other.


The Imperial agent becomes either a sniper or an operative and the smuggler either becomes a gunslinger or a scoundrel.


Therefore If you play a smuggler and make him a gunslinger and you make an Imperial agent and make him an operative they are going to be completely different classes, one being a ranged dps and the other a melee dps or healer.


There are not just 4 classes on each side there are 8 classes on each side. If those 8 classes were not mirrored there would be 16 different archetypes in the game at launch, which is unheard of. And if a game does come out with 16 archetypes at launch they are hardley unique. WoW had 9 classes at launch, ToR has 8 very unique classes at launch. 


Look at it this way.


At Launch


World of Warcraft                                                      ToR


Alliance           Horde                                              Republic                       Empire


Paladin          Shaman                                           Guardian                       Juggernaut


Mage              Mage                                                 Sentinel                         Marauder


Druid              Druid                                                 Sage                               Sorcerer


Hunter            Hunter                                              Shadow                          Assassin


Rogue            Rogue                                               Vanguard                       Powertech


Priest              Priest                                                Commando                   Mercenary


Warrior           Warrior                                              Gunslinger                     Sniper


Warlock          Warlock                                            Scoundrel                       Operative


 


So WoW doesnt have mirrord classes but guess what all the classes are used on both sides so balancing is a no brainer.


ToR has just as much diversity and uniqueness, but when people read posts like this OP they get the wrong Idea,


And guess what WoW has only TWO sets of quests, Alliance quests and Horde quests


ToR has TEN sets of missions, Jedi Knight missions, Jedi Consular missions, Trooper missions, Smuggler missions, Republic missions, Sith Warrior missions, Sith Inquisitor missions, Bounty Hunter missions, Imperial Agent missions, and Imperial missions. PLUS they're all voiced!


So even if you wanted to play say a mercenary and its mirror class the commando you will still be listening to two very unique class story lines.


What I did is If I made my Bounty Hunter a Mercenary I made my Trooper a Vanguard, two very different classes one ranged dps the other melee dps/ tank, If I made my Sith Warrior a Marauder I made my Jedi Knight a guardian, etc. so I ended up with all 8 of my characters unique classes so now i have 8 archetypes and I get to enjoy each story when i decide to level them.


Really the only people complaining about the mirrored classes in this game is people who want to make more than 8 uniqe classes. Each time you level a character it takes about 150 hours of gameplay to get to max level. Technically there are 16 classes in the game 8 on empire and 8 mirrord on republic. You really have to have no life to want to level more than 8 characters, but if you do have no life and want to level more than 8 characters you CAN in this game, In WoW there are 10 classes PERIOD, in TOR 16 total, (8 and 8) at launch, and there will most likely be more to come in future expansions.


 


 


  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/12 4:30:11 PM#286
Originally posted by Bladefangs If those 8 classes were not mirrored there would be 16 different archetypes in the game at launch, which is unheard of.

 

cough -

DAOC - 48 classes - 16 unique per faction

EQ - 16 classes

AO - 14 classes

COH - 10 archetypes of which you can split by prmary / secondary powersets to 100s of "classes"

AC / UO / EVE - make your own class

  Shadin

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/04
Posts: 297

2/19/12 4:39:21 PM#287

That's a crapload of comments to not read.


Now that I'm at the bottom of the page I'll add mine to the increasing pile.


I love SW: TOR, I love playing SW: TOR and I have fun in SW: TOR, but the original article is spot on. And all I can cry out is "whyyyy!?".. I wish there were a bit of a difference at least, but at most it's animations (at worst, nothing).


I went from vanguard to powertech, like the example being made by the OP and others, and it's not even the slightest difference (except for the making sense part). I understand balance, time, money etc. but I truly, honestly, from the bottom of my heart wish that had changed things up at least a little.


Experience a new story? Sure, but I'm still playing the same class. Sigh.. Ah well, as I said, I still love the game - just wish some things were a bit different.


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