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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Five Not So Great Things About SWTOR

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Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/08
Posts: 21

11/28/11 5:54:22 PM#121

Ummm...what hae they been doin gthis whole time?  I mean the game should be amazing and its just soso. If it wasnt "Star Wars' this game would fail major. I like it but I liked Aion, Rift and a bunch or other games fr 4-5 months. Im a lil disapointed but I love SW so will probably dish out the cash for this over rated game. Im not bashing ust a lil let down


Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 795

11/28/11 6:10:35 PM#122

Originally posted by Elikal

Just having totally different quests for FACTIONS would nothing be to write home about. WOW had that, DAoC had that, Warhammer had that. Many games had that! THAT would not have been any novelity at all. The truth is, after you leave the starter world, 80% of content is the exact same within your faction, and I am sure many expected that to be greatly different! And even the oh so individual class content is often just one small instanced room with a boss fight in the dungeon you walk with everyone else. Yeah, VERY individual.


Wait what?

Like you said, this game was advertised as a story based mmorpg with every character class having its own unique story with only small overlapping. That was THE unique selling point of this game.

There were people complaining about it probably lacking content like a normal mmorpg but people said it owuld have plenty of content because each class had a story bigger then Knigts of the Old Republic.


Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 8311

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

11/28/11 6:15:49 PM#123

Hmm i come clsoe to agreeing iwth all 5 points but with a tad variance in what i see.

5  Itemization...I agree and it is too slow,i actually have ONLy had a lightsabre that can have mods.The part i find most frustrating is trying to understand the stats.With really no customization so far for me,i guess it doesn't matter but eventually i would like to knw owhat stat helps what and if it matters much at all.


4   Sidequests only matter if you care about them at all.I feel the problem is everyone thinks there is some meaningful lsotry going on here,which is definitely not the case.So you can't really have a side quest if the mai nquest is just some thrown together meaningless quest.The main plot behind 50% of them is a conspiracy of some kind.The rest are just your typical quests.

3  UI....I feel it is not a game breaker but yes i see two things.First yo uneed to be able to resize the Companion bar and two to be able to move and resize your regular bars.

If you use the two bottom ones for your player,then your COMP bar gets made small and loses some of it's spells.Otherwise yo uare having to click all over the screen to get to various icons,from left>right>bottom.

2 Character creation.I was not looking for visual in this area,i was looking for meaningful stats,racial abilities.Even on the visual side it is extremely archaic.

BTW there is not 4 body types ,there is ONLY one,it is that same model just resized,exactly what the game does throughout.

1YEP,i agree.You know why it feels like single player?I am w/o any doubt at all ,believe this is nothing more than KOTOR revamped with a few mmo ideas.

IMO if devs can't deliver on planetary and space,they should stay out of the sci fi genre,that means you too Eve online.This was simply a quick KOTOR fix to make profits by going as a MMO and profitting from it's name.
Samoan Diamond


Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/05
Posts: 1035

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering" -Master Yoda

11/28/11 6:30:15 PM#124

For once I couldn't agree more with MikeB. I am seriously considering cancelling my pre-order. That's not because the game is horrible for not adding/fixing what needs to be done, but because so far at this point BW hasn't made any statements that they plan to fix the issues at all. 

If BW were to at least make a statement that things would be changed at least in post-launch I would reconsider. Until then, I will vote with my wallet.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 774

11/28/11 6:38:36 PM#125

choose setting that has an incredibly diverse list of races, many of which are already iconic.

make all the races humanoids with different skin colors/VERY SLIGHTLY altered models

very VERY lazy bioware. what a waste of potential.  especially since way older MMOs like SWG had tons of different races

also money can't be an excuse, this is literally the most expensive game ever created. the budget was higher than the movie avatar


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/05
Posts: 142

I am the WoW killer.

11/28/11 6:46:40 PM#126

Originally posted by MMOrUS

Why on earth would I worry about character customization when I'm going to be staring at the back of my freaking characters head from day 1?

So what if I can change the cheekbones or nose length or whatever, I'm not going to see it on a constant basis, if at all, I know some players enjoy messing around with thier characters look, but for me I just press "Random Body/Look" and hope for the best, if I end up with a Danny Devito look then so be it.

Sidequests! until I read this I didn't realise that some ppl thought of them as a nuisance, I've been so engrossed in the game that it never occured to me that there where even such things as sidequests, guess I'm that immersed in the game that this one has just gone completely over my head.

I'l agree with you on the UI, but then again once I've gotten used to it I'm not one that likes to use mods to change it, it throws my gameplay out of whack, so I'm happy with whats on offer, it isn't as bad as alot of other games and I find it still very useful.

Well as far as space combat goes, I hated Elite, I hated EVE and I've disliked every space simulator thats ever been produced, If I wanted to fly spaceships around and shoot other spaceships I would have tried harder at EVE, even the minigame is too much space combat for me, I've gome to SWTOR to be an evil sith lord who wants to crush the rebel scum under my boots, and I'd prefer to do it on the ground thankyou very much.




Normally I would agree with you on characyer customization, but in this game you actually do spend a fair amount of time watching your character's face in the cut scenes.  I still dont need a slider for every pimple on their face but I was a little disappointed that all the races are so strongly humanoid.  

What really surp[riased me is no one talking about how the classes are exactly the same.  The Sith Inquistor and the Jedi Consular have the EXACT same abilities just with diffrent names and diffrent partcle effects.  But the abilities themselves produce the exact same damage, and both classes are played exactly the same way.  Same for bounty hunters and troopers.  Bounty hunters use heat disperse, Troopers use reload the exact same way.  Seems a little cheap to me to only have four real classes at launch instead of eight.

Stilla great game, and I really enjoyed the beta this weekend.  Still going to buy it, but I think they did cut some corners to get it out faster.  


Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 958

Sadness is but a wall between two gardens. -Kahlil Gibran

11/28/11 6:56:12 PM#127

"The only difference is the fact you can choose from different eye colors, skin shades, and facial tattoos. The actual heads are identical. The same is true for hairstyles, again, with few exceptions."


I can't even begin to tell you how disappointing that is. I may be a living, breathing stereotype of a female gamer (we have plenty who don't care about avatars at all, I'm sure), but I really enjoy personalizing my character's appearance to the nth degree. It isn't "just fluff" to me, it's crucial. It's the image I'm sending out to everyone around me about how I see myself in the game world, perhaps even the real world. Is my character covered in tattoos, or is she wearing a business suit? Is she walking around in stilettos, or is she wearing steel-toed combat boots? Is she sporting crucifex earrings, or are they anarchy symbols? Does she wear heavy mascara, or does she go completely without makeup?


The list goes on and on, or it should. In this case, it apparently doesn't "go" very far at all. BioWare's recent single-player games are not too terrible when it comes to personalization; Dragon Age and Mass Effect both had multiple sliders for dozens of things. What's ironic about that is that individuality is less important in single-player games because your character only needs to differentiate herself from NPCs. In MMOs, you need to differentiate yourself from a lot more NPCs (the world's far larger) and  thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of players.


A major part of online gaming, particularly in the massively multiplayer genre, is socializing. Part of socialization is personal expression, and a part of personal expression in online gaming is through avatar appearance. Some people use their avatars as mobile trophy stands, some use them as expressions of themselves, some use them as expressions of how they'd like to be seen, and some just use them as expressions of who they think the character would be. The more you limit that, the less people will identify with their own characters (at least among players who identify with their characters at all), and that just can't be good for the game. Why make avatars your players "have to be" when you could give them the tools to make avatars they "want to be?"


In any case, I'd really hoped that the BioWare team had moved beyond the EQ1 "pick a head" template, which felt restrictive even a decade ago. I'm saddened to learn that's not the case in their first MMO project. Their stories will be wonderful, I'm sure, but they'd be a lot more wonderful for me if I actually liked the character they were happening to: mine.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 627

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

11/28/11 6:56:38 PM#128

Originally posted by Baikal


Originally posted by icehawke

None of the Heroics require grouping. I was able to solo Steel Voice on Hutta with my BH. Yep. Real heroic.


I'll guess that you solo'd it once you had your companion, which would mean you soloed a quest that was designed to be done by someone several levels lower than you. Congrats!

Of course since I said that, no matter what the truth is, I'm sure we'll hear how you soloed it at level and did it easily it was done. Dont let facts get in the way of making a point though, ever!

Seriously though, yeah, some 2+ heroic's can be soloed if you work at it, but to suggest that none of 'em do, you'd be fairly seriously mistaken, unless of course you significantly overlevel them.

Hey, I soloed Black Talon, so really Flashpoints dont require group either, right?


Indeed also when you make it to Droumond Kas or Corrusant there's a few quests there you can't solo, you need a group, sometimes four people.  I was surprised really that early in the game you hit those kind of points were you had to group up.  

I do take issue with a couple of these points and subsequent comments.  

Space combat was never suppose to be a major part of the game, it's a side thing, for a laugh.  Some of you talk as if they should have implemented a cross between x-wing and JTL.  Maybe that would have been more fun but they didn't promise you that did they, so why act as if you've been betrayed? (Also space battles are a huge part of the Star Wars IP, not travelling through space mining aestroids, but I better stop there before the ex moisture farmers get angry).

Also the critisim about side quests is a joke.  Apart from the fact that a class quest on an alternative character gives a different experience you can actually play a side quest differently.  Sometimes it'll lead to unexpected outcomes, one on Korriban springs to mind instantly.  How many other MMOs give you that option? 

I think fundamentally some just don't like this sort of game and thats fair enough. Underneath the unique storylines, companions, crew skills, this is essentially the same game you've played for the last five years in a Star Wars wrapper. Some are okay with that, (I am), some of you clearly aren't or have a thing about EA's involvement.  Hey I get it, I have one about :P

 For me the biggests issues is the lack of life in the city/hub areas, they just don't feel alive, (if they were following WoW so closely they could have taken a few pointers here), I did hear some chatter from npcs in a village on Ord Mantell but it's not enough.  The other big thing is the class specialisations at lv10, I really don't like the idea of being locked into one or two roles for the rest of my characters life.  What if my guild needs a tank and I've gone healer/dps? Keeps people interested as well if you give them the freedom to be more useful in a given situation.  


This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 664

Everyones a mmo vet these days :P

11/28/11 7:02:15 PM#129
Although I tend to agree with some things, but you guys need to stop comparing swtor with games like WoW , swg . Just play the game and enjoy it instead of anilizing every aspect of it.

I have played every mmo out there , first one being eq beta of 98 , and this game is leagues ahead of the rest, so what the UI is not good for some, did you forget your WoW has a similar UI and is actualy much worse? As I said , who gives a damn about UI , mods, add ons and little rabbits running around in a freaking forest, because if you want that, go take a walk in a real one.

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 700

11/28/11 7:03:36 PM#130

Totally agree plus many many more


Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 795

11/28/11 7:26:53 PM#131

Originally posted by Aeolron

Although I tend to agree with some things, but you guys need to stop comparing swtor with games like WoW , swg . Just play the game and enjoy it instead of anilizing every aspect of it.

I have played every mmo out there , first one being eq beta of 98 , and this game is leagues ahead of the rest, so what the UI is not good for some, did you forget your WoW has a similar UI and is actualy much worse? As I said , who gives a damn about UI , mods, add ons and little rabbits running around in a freaking forest, because if you want that, go take a walk in a real one.


I couldn't be bothered downloading and registering my account, didn't want to deal woth EA bullshit.

But I'd like to know HOW this game is leagues ahead of other mmorpg's like you say?


Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

11/28/11 7:27:34 PM#132

I agree with the 5 but my personal 5 is:


5.  Mirrored classes.  I get why the jedi and sith are mirrored but why did bioware mirror the others?  I just don't understand the reasoning behind mirroring them.  Instead of 4 unique classes we get these copy things that will only make balancing harder and make future classes even harder to create.


4.  Space Combat:  What was bioware thinking?  I have NEVER met anyone that wanted to play SWTOR because it had star fox, but I have met a large number of poeple that the rail space shooter turned away.  On top of that it's  crappy and  solo.  Why didn't bioware add Pazaak or pod racing, first?  They are "more" KOTORy and poeple wouldn't have been turned away by it.


3.  UI.  Worst UI ever.   Okay maybe not ever but terrible.


2.  World desgined by quests.  Like alot of poeple the world just doesn't feel alive to me and on top of the it feels to me that they made the quests and then designed a world around it, which just kills immersion for me. 


1.  When I play I just get this feeling that bioware only wants me to play one way.   Everytime I read or heard the dev talk before the game came out, I just this feeling that they didn't care what I thought, how dare question them and I should just take what ever they are making and thank them.  To me this has carried over to the game by just how limiting the story is at points and how linear the game is overall.  Yes yes I know that themepark games are limiting... well other than wow, where there is normally two zones and/or instances at your level you can us to level.


In the end SWTOR feels like bad wow clone stuck in my single player game.  The part of me that likes the chiche bioware games but the mmoer so doesn't want to play atm.

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 664

Everyones a mmo vet these days :P

11/28/11 8:00:33 PM#133
@ thekid

It's leagues ahead in story, fluid combat, complete voice overs, gathering/crafting ( however I find SWG the best when it comes to housing and crafting) the legacy system is a interesting touch , good graphics and remarkable worlds. Need I say more? Ok, advanced classes and talents that aren't screwed up like WoW, yup I said and and oh no pandas lol.

Elite Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2955

11/28/11 8:17:58 PM#134

Looks like a fair list.

Uploaded with


Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1984

11/28/11 8:24:02 PM#135

#1 [Character customization & lack of playable alien races or droids]: Because we're going to spend lof of time watching your character face in cutscenes

#2 [UI] : It's slick but even AoC has more customization than this.

#3 [Lacking basic MMO features] From the to lack of guild bank down to the missing day/night cycles

#4 [Game's on RAILS] World feels static, mobs don't move if you don't do anything, Quests takes you literally by the hand. Game's too directed: don't want to play a movie... in the long term.

#5 [Space shooter]: I would be ashamed to deliver a SW MMO with this, really. Set #5 as many non space sim fans think they don't like good ones in MMOs ;) 


#6 [Itemization]: As said by others either add the mod slots on all items or implement appearance tabs. And BTW high end gear looks silly, allow us to hide the shoulder flaps!!!


#7 [Mirrored Classes]: Bit disappointing.


#8 [Story & Dark/Light side choices]: Why being evil is mostly only about greed in this game? And why do all NPC wants to give me credits when, as I Jedi I just did this to help, or as a Trooper because it was my duty?

#9 [V.O.] Recording are great (in English) but dialogs are too long. Already started skipping lines during my second beta session. Might get old very fast.

#9 [Housing]  It's a bad joke, even LotRo is better.


That being said, you can rest assured the UI will be fixed very fast.

What I'm more worried with tough is the character customization, beause so far none MMO revamped or really enhanced character customization post launch. And this game needs it regarding dialogs.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/09
Posts: 1018

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

11/28/11 8:32:22 PM#136

By far the most annoying thing (and this is extremely annoying in all Bioware games), is that when I am in a conversation, the options for my responses do not correlate to what my character actually says, and therefore, sometimes, to the reaction of NPCs. This is not a problem in a single player game, but in this game I cannot change choices. When I want to say something, and I actually say something entirely different because the listed options are not even similar in either explicit or implicit meaning, I become extremely frustrated and annoyed. It is nearly game breaking when I get angry over a conversation option because I cannot change it. What the options are should correlate to what your character will actually say when you choose it. There is no excuse for it to not match.

For example, during a Bounty Hunter quest, before you accept, you have an option to say “Let's talk credits.” But if you select that option, your character says “I need money up-front.” These are not the same; they are not even similar, save in that they both regard money. “Let's talk credits” would usually mean you are negotiating for the sum to be paid. If the line is as short as “I need money up-front,” what reason is there to not simply display that line, so we know what we are going to say before we say it? Why is this such a pervasive problem in all Bioware games? I never know what my character is going to say, or even have a vague idea, before I select the option and hear what is actually said. It is ridiculous and maddening.

Another example, in the very same room (Nem'ros palace's cantina), when Getzo asks you to kill eels for him, you have an option to say “Is that the best plan?” “But when selected, your character actually says “Why not nab the eels and give them to Nem'ro yourself?” Not the same. Annoying. Frustrating.

These are just specific examples I have taken down now. A great example of this causing more actual problems is with the pair of Jedi lovers on Tython. The woman is jumpy, and any time a character is jumpy, you need to be careful what you say. But you say totally different things from the listed options, and upset her, when what the options are listed as may not have had the same reaction, because they are not even similar. When you cause outrage in someone, and feel like you were misled by terrible dialogue options, it is upsetting, and give the game a bad feeling. I am not sure I want to own this game, and not because of any gameplay issue, (the gameplay is great for me, though the graphics are a bit iffy), but because the conversations are so common, and so frustrating every single time.

"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true — you know it, and they know it." —Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

WTF? No subscription fee?


Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/07
Posts: 250

11/28/11 8:33:46 PM#137

your clearly a WoW fanboy clinging onto an 7 year old game with aging graphics who is trying to nitpick at things scared of the fact that Old Republic is about to unseat WoW as the king of mmorpgs.  The list of items your mentioned are petty and will all be enhanced as the game develops.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 664

Everyones a mmo vet these days :P

11/28/11 8:45:27 PM#138
+1 blitzban

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1984

11/28/11 9:09:32 PM#139
Originally posted by Dubhlaith

By far the most annoying thing (and this is extremely annoying in all Bioware games), is that when I am in a conversation, the options for my responses do not correlate to what my character actually says, and therefore, sometimes, to the reaction of NPCs.  **snip**

This feature (not an issue because it's intended) has always annoyed me in every BioWare games but BG.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 594

11/28/11 9:39:50 PM#140

Originally posted by Supersoups

Anyone else here hates it when people quote a damn long post just to add  one line reply to it? ughhh.


Especially when it adds nothing to the conversation.

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