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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Disappointed in SWTOR? Let's talk about why.

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148 posts found
  User Deleted
11/27/11 1:39:14 AM#121
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by forty4plus2

A couple of things:

The reason there isn't a Day/night cycle is because of the artistic direction.  The wanted each world to have a certain look and feel to them and also as a sort of allegory to the fall and rise of the empire (night and dusk) and republic (daytime and morning). 

Also, the reason there isn't "non-humanlike" races is because Bioware wanted playable characters that are relatable. And if you look at the Star Wars universe there aren't many main characters who are non-human.

But, everything else the OP has stated are not gamebreakers for me.  Most of it will likely be expanded upon after release. At least I hope ;-)

You believe that do you?  it's called marketing B.S. my friend.  Let me decipher:

1.  No day / night cycles - They didn't want to put the time and money into developing this.   There is even an interview somewhere with a dev who confirmed it was due to time / money issues. 

2.  No races besides human races - They only had to make 1 type of armor model that would work for every race this way, greatly cutting down on time / cost.

Bottom line - don't believe everything you're told, especially when it's in THEIR best interest to lie to you about it.

Tighten that tinfoil hat a bit, man.

There are quite extensive interviews explaining the lack of day/night cycles, and the desire to have a particular mood set by static lighting.

Conspiracy theorists make me laugh my ass off.

  Matticus75

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 393

11/27/11 1:58:02 AM#122
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by forty4plus2

A couple of things:

The reason there isn't a Day/night cycle is because of the artistic direction.  The wanted each world to have a certain look and feel to them and also as a sort of allegory to the fall and rise of the empire (night and dusk) and republic (daytime and morning). 

Also, the reason there isn't "non-humanlike" races is because Bioware wanted playable characters that are relatable. And if you look at the Star Wars universe there aren't many main characters who are non-human.

But, everything else the OP has stated are not gamebreakers for me.  Most of it will likely be expanded upon after release. At least I hope ;-)

You believe that do you?  it's called marketing B.S. my friend.  Let me decipher:

1.  No day / night cycles - They didn't want to put the time and money into developing this.   There is even an interview somewhere with a dev who confirmed it was due to time / money issues. 

2.  No races besides human races - They only had to make 1 type of armor model that would work for every race this way, greatly cutting down on time / cost.

Bottom line - don't believe everything you're told, especially when it's in THEIR best interest to lie to you about it.

Tighten that tinfoil hat a bit, man.

There are quite extensive interviews explaining the lack of day/night cycles, and the desire to have a particular mood set by static lighting.

Conspiracy theorists make me laugh my ass off.

The world does not work on goodness.....this is how it works......Saving money is money made.

Rule #1 Does a particular action make money? Yes or No?

Rule #2 If your not doing that action now, then whats in the way? No excuses no exceptions; unless Rule #3 applies

Rule #3 Remove whats in the way as long as the cost to does not exceeds the profit with risk factored in....

 

Thats all their is to it.......the world in a nutshell

 

Everything outside of those 3 rules is what an excuse is.........integrity to a business is relative, and if integrity is really relative, then its does not exist

 

A Business will poison your local water table with lead for your kids to drink if they can get away with it, and a few dollars in PR to mask it, if it fits rule #3 (Bless BP, they are so good, gosh)

 

Its not a Conspiracy, its business, and business is an easily predicatble mindless machine/animal, it does what it does, no more no less......I call it a free market response when consumers refuse buy garbage and communicate it.....

  manolaren

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 60

11/27/11 2:40:15 AM#123
This game is LIKE WoW, not WoW. Tbh its much worse. Wow gave us some good years before we get bored and sick. This one gives us nothing. At least nothing new that justifies that is a 2012 game. A long waited game, a 500 million one…I don’t care about lore, at least so much that I can bypass the weaknesses SWTOR have. Everything except lore is a dejavu from the past. It brings absolutely nothing new to mmo genre. Maybe to SW fans, but sure not to mmo genre in any way.
 
Take RIFT as example. Maybe it will never be a bank breaker mmo, but they tried to bring some new things. At least we must admit they tried. They introduced Rifts, an excellent talent and class system and a dynamic world (not fully but at least dynamic). Also the pace of their updates and patches was great. I played it about 6 months, then I got bored. It wasn’t the one for me, but I admit as long as I played it I enjoyed it.
 
Anyway, there will be many that will love or hate SWTOR. The point is that it doesn’t  gives you the feeling that is something really new, that is a game it has to offer both to genre and players new things.
  C1d0s

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/09
Posts: 242

"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife." ~ Groucho Marx

11/27/11 2:44:13 AM#124
Originally posted by manolaren
This game is LIKE WoW, not WoW. Tbh its much worse. Wow gave us some good years before we get bored and sick. This one gives us nothing. At least nothing new that justifies that is a 2012 game. A long waited game, a 500 million one…I don’t care about lore, at least so much that I can bypass the weaknesses SWTOR have. Everything except lore is a dejavu from the past. It brings absolutely nothing new to mmo genre. Maybe to SW fans, but sure not to mmo genre in any way.
 
Take RIFT as example. Maybe it will never be a bank breaker mmo, but they tried to bring some new things. At least we must admit they tried. They introduced Rifts, an excellent talent and class system and a dynamic world (not fully but at least dynamic). Also the pace of their updates and patches was great. I played it about 6 months, then I got bored. It wasn’t the one for me, but I admit as long as I played it I enjoyed it.
 
Anyway, there will be many that will love or hate SWTOR. The point is that it doesn’t  gives you the feeling that is something really new, that is a game it has to offer both to genre and players new things.

No offense, pal.

I think you went in expecting something totally different than advertised. Not once have they gloated over anything being new, save for the fact it is fully voiced; in fact, they've actually states numerous times during development that they're proud of the tried-and-true formula.

You're right though, many will love and some will hate. Time will tell how successful the game will be - and fortunately, we don't have much longer to wait for an actual release! Launch days are important, you know.

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2615

11/27/11 2:55:33 AM#125
Originally posted by manolaren
This game is LIKE WoW, not WoW. Tbh its much worse. Wow gave us some good years before we get bored and sick. This one gives us nothing. At least nothing new that justifies that is a 2012 game. A long waited game, a 500 million one…I don’t care about lore, at least so much that I can bypass the weaknesses SWTOR have. Everything except lore is a dejavu from the past. It brings absolutely nothing new to mmo genre. Maybe to SW fans, but sure not to mmo genre in any way.
 
Take RIFT as example. Maybe it will never be a bank breaker mmo, but they tried to bring some new things. At least we must admit they tried. They introduced Rifts, an excellent talent and class system and a dynamic world (not fully but at least dynamic). Also the pace of their updates and patches was great. I played it about 6 months, then I got bored. It wasn’t the one for me, but I admit as long as I played it I enjoyed it.
 
Anyway, there will be many that will love or hate SWTOR. The point is that it doesn’t  gives you the feeling that is something really new, that is a game it has to offer both to genre and players new things.

Rift gave us absolutely nothing that you can't find in WoW.  The rifts/invasions are stupid distractions that no one does anymore, and the soul system consists of little else than expanded talent trees.  You go from tiny camp to tiny camp clicking every NPC in the area, getting the quests, completing them, turning them in, getting more quests, and then getting a ques tto go to the next tiny camp.  Nearly every quest is generic and unoriginal, requiring you to either kill x of y or collect x of y.  The "events" that go on in the game usually consist of a camp of NPCs that are always located in the exact same generic location who shove out generic dailies to turn in for currency to buy some decent gear and fluff items.  Endgame is run instances (none of which are all that impressive) until your eyes bleed and then raid. 

SW:TOR takes everything that was in WoW and wraps a story around it.  Even the classic kill x of y quests usually have some sort of a story that causes you, the player, to have a greater attachment to the mission than you ordinarily would have.  Quest chains often function as self contained stories that sometimes include a nice bit of lore behind them including many quests involving KOTOR references on Taris and the Revanite quest series on Dromund Kaas.  Even progression doesn't feel so railroaded.  You aren't forced to do "every" quest in an area in order to move on.  You do the main story and pick up side quests when you need more XP or items.  The quest NPCs aren't all standing right next to each other as if their entire purpose is to hand you experience.  They are actually spread out within a camp or a city, and you actually have to be on the lookout for quests otherwise you may miss some.  SW:TOR is a traditional MMORPG in the sense that you move from quest hub to quest hub in a linear path, but you can't say that BioWare didn't put their own spin on the formula.  I don't feel I'm playing a direct copy of WoW when I play Rift, rather I feel as if I'm playing a game that was inspired by it, and that's the key difference between the twog ames.

  C1d0s

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/09
Posts: 242

"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife." ~ Groucho Marx

11/27/11 3:03:12 AM#126
Originally posted by SuperXero89

SW:TOR takes everything that was in WoW and wraps a story around it.  Even the classic kill x of y quests usually have some sort of a story that causes you, the player, to have a greater attachment to the mission than you ordinarily would have.  Quest chains often function as self contained stories that sometimes include a nice bit of lore behind them including many quests involving KOTOR references on Taris and the Revanite quest series on Dromund Kaas.  Even progression doesn't feel so railroaded.  You aren't forced to do "every" quest in an area in order to move on.  You do the main story and pick up side quests when you need more XP or items.  The quest NPCs aren't all standing right next to each other as if their entire purpose is to hand you experience.  They are actually spread out within a camp or a city, and you actually have to be on the lookout for quests otherwise you may miss some.  SW:TOR is a traditional MMORPG in the sense that you move from quest hub to quest hub in a linear path, but you can't say that BioWare didn't put their own spin on the formula.  I don't feel I'm playing a direct copy of WoW when I play Rift, rather I feel as if I'm playing a game that was inspired by it, and that's the key difference between the twog ames.

I agree with this; in fact, I never actually took notice that the aforementioned bonus quests weren't mandatory! By choice, just because I was interested in the story and in some way compelled, did I do every mission available. SWTOR has a nice way of making most trivial things seem - at the very least - in some way, shape, or form related to the overall story. All quests are designed to have meaning to your current, main objective - and they succeed for the most part. 

Nobody is saying SWTOR reinvented the wheel, but, like SuperXero89 said, they took a proven methology and put their own, unique spin on it. 

  gaugemew

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/11
Posts: 159

11/27/11 3:07:11 AM#127
Originally posted by scotty899

this just in 'ITS FREE A BETA' andit aint gona make everyone happy.

 

If you are just gona cry, why dont you post it in the swotr forum so somthing can be elaborated on and maybe fixed/changed.

 

 

1.  It launches way to soon for dramatic changes to be made.  If you think otherwise, you are living in a dream world.

2.  This is EA.  Likely these issues that everyone keeps bringing up have been brought up thousands of times during the beta.  They don't care about what makes a good game.  They care about what will yield them the most profit the quickest.  Look at EA's MMO history and you will quickly realize (if you use any form of logic) that without any encouragement from anyone else, you should stay far far away from any EA MMO.  Likely your response will be "it's Bioware not EA".  Hey sony was just publishing Vaguard and pirates of the burning sea....right....  Activision has a cash cow to milk for pennies.  EA wants theirs, mark my words and basically any business mans words on that.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2803

11/27/11 3:08:22 AM#128

I'm not buying SW:TOR at launch, but damn the complaints in this thread are ridiculous.  Sounds like a bunch of disgruntled sandbox players to me.

  gaugemew

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/11
Posts: 159

11/27/11 3:13:08 AM#129
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

I'm not buying SW:TOR at launch, but damn the complaints in this thread are ridiculous.  Sounds like a bunch of disgruntled sandbox players to me.

Stereotypes are ok if people don't pay attention to them socially right?

Example:  Those explitive sandboxers moved in next door.  Don't they know we don't want their kind here?

^I posted that mostly because I'm aware you would have been unable to make the connection I was getting at.

  dronfwar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/11
Posts: 323

1+1=1
(IMO)

11/27/11 3:18:04 AM#130
Originally posted by gaugemew
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

I'm not buying SW:TOR at launch, but damn the complaints in this thread are ridiculous.  Sounds like a bunch of disgruntled sandbox players to me.

Stereotypes are ok if people don't pay attention to them socially right?

Example:  Those explitive sandboxers moved in next door.  Don't they know we don't want their kind here?

^I posted that mostly because I'm aware you would have been unable to make the connection I was getting at.

IMO, all haters and sandboxers should be marked with a trollface.jpg!

  PukeBucket

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/10/11
Posts: 889

11/27/11 3:19:23 AM#131

Guilty as a sandboxer.

I liked TOR for a WoW-Clone. I don't give a fuck who thinks it's a bad term, I think it's just accurate.

I'd rather have had KotoR 3 just because I know the story could be way more exciting and the choices mean more to the world. Seeing the same companions on everyone, the same gear, the same NPCs sending everyone off to the same quests was really a deal breaker.

If they had a cog / quest system like Hero's Journey advertised and Guild Wars 2 is boasting about; then the "sameness" of this game could have been more tolerable.

It's not.

Fresh coats of paint can only hold something old together for so long.

I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  Dante1313

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/07
Posts: 11

11/27/11 3:22:59 AM#132

Well i Haven't played it, an from what i've read and seen here never will.

Just looking at the Dislike / Like posts (way more dislike) i have to say this will be the biggest Flop of a mmo i'll ever see, and to the people saying the points the OP suggested are nothing... Really?? You people must be very easily please or insane fanbois to deal with these things that would kill a more cheaper mmo...aren't MMORPG's meant to be social exciting, fun, not boring, clunky, ugly, singleplayer games.

Looking at those pictures that were posted makes me cringe in horror my god that game looks boring and ugly as sin, and at first i couldn't put my finger on it but thinking now it looks Console graphics.....Very old Console feel to it, Almost like i'm playing and old Ps2 port on a emulator...

Roll on Guildwars 2 i guess...I'll stick with Champions Online for now as the graphics look like SWTOR anyway haha with more customisation.

Crown the Wise, Harness the Talented, and Cherish the Lucky......
The Dragon Lofwyr.

  Shadus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/03/04
Posts: 672

Dont run... you will just die tired!

11/27/11 3:26:06 AM#133

I think they did voice overs and video cut scenes very very well.

The world just feels... silly though. We're all the same 'hero' effectively, its especially bad with the jedi/sith.

I expected better out of bioware, but they decided to play it too safe to the wow/eq formula... i think long term that will bite them in the ass but i have no doubt they'll be profitable. Don't think its the game for me. I just didnt enjoy it.

Shadus

  newbo

Novice Member

Joined: 10/31/11
Posts: 38

11/27/11 3:51:05 AM#134

There are quite a few valid critisms, as I share the same view with plenty of people on certain features, however I don't think I've seen so many complainers in the same spot in a while, perhaps thats just my ignorance. I played in the first and second beta weekends, and I had fun. The game was exactly what I had anticipated from all the info prior to the beta weekend. Didn't have crazy indepth character creation, check. Didn't have destructible environments, check. The graphics weren't mindblowing, check. I'm not really sure what people who were utterly disappointed in the game were expecting. I played the game for what it was, and thought it was fun and definitely a change from the other stuff on the market. Its definitely not vastly different in terms of gameplay from other things on the market, but it all comes down to the packaging and presentation, and I believe that Bioware did enough to separate themselves from other MMOs on the market while providing enough content to warrant a sub. What will really decide how far this game goes are the updates, if Bioware can put out what they had mentioned on their wall, this game will keep millions satisified for a relatively long time. That being said if you went in expecting shit, and blinded by your crap-o-vision goggles you managed to completely remove the entertainment value of this game from your experience, you weren't going to like it regardless of what Bioware had done. Simple as that, and the only one at a disadvantage is you and your experience.

  JoeyMMO

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1334

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

11/27/11 5:19:40 AM#135
Originally posted by Herodes

 


 

When I worked on SWTOR, the running joke was that we knew the game would be ready to ship when we had water physics and swimming animations.

It’s shipping next month and there is still no water physics or swimming animations, even though there is a least one quest in which the NPCs SPECIFICALLY MENTION SWIMMING!

For me, that was a portent of what to expect from the game.

Leslee




http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=14239

 

This link is a must read, a bit long, but definitely worth the read.

  JoeyMMO

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1334

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

11/27/11 5:51:37 AM#136
Originally posted by SuperXero89

Rift gave us absolutely nothing that you can't find in WoW.  *snip*

SW:TOR takes everything that was in WoW and wraps a story around it.  *snip*

I don't feel I'm playing a direct copy of WoW when I play Rift, rather I feel as if I'm playing a game that was inspired by it, and that's the key difference between the two games.

So SWTOR is a direct copy of WoW and Rift isn't? Or Rift was inspired by WoW and SWTOR isn't?

  User Deleted
11/27/11 7:37:55 AM#137
Originally posted by VoIgore

- Character creation. In fact there isn't any, it's rather just a "character's head creation". All humanoids, all sharing the same animations and bodies as far as the classes and races i've played. You only play different heads.

-Animations are a very bad joke. It is unbelieveable to me how a multimillion dollar product gets released with this placeholder animations allover.

-UI in my face. If i could at least pick my own ui color and tone it down to some light grey. Frames and blocks are clunky as if i play on 800x600. It needs at least some HUD scaling, as on 1920 the UI takes too much space on my screen.

-Textures are terrible to a point that i wanted to scream at them. I'm playing on max settings incl. AA on 1920. Some textures are so blurry that i had to wipe blood out of my eyes every few minutes.

-Shadows haven't left alpha status i see.

-Lighting. Jedi Knight 2 in 1998 had lightsaber, blasters and particle effects casting glow and enlighten the environment. SWTOR should be a firework of lights and colors, yet my saber doesn't even cast a glow on myself.

-Lifeless environment. I haven't seen ANY ambiente stuff, not even a critter somewhere or a banner waving. Instead of NPCs they could as well have placed terminals everywhere, would be as dead.

 

I can only imagine this game to appeal to children, first time mmorpg'ers and complete SW-geeks only. Every adult mmorpg'er with some halfway decent standards and expectations to a 2012 title should boycott this (moreso considering the horrendous price of this piece)

A big budget and voiceovers obviously doesn't make an AAA title, as SWTOR with absolute basic stuff missing (day/night cycle) and blatant low quality points is clearly not.

 

I think I can call myself a big Star Wars fan, but they are not getting my hard earned money! I'm not impressed at all with this game. It's almost 2012 and even Lineage looks better than this crap.

They talk so much about their fully voiced game, and yet the game is lifeless. The NPC's could just aswel been statues, because basically thats what they are, just a beacon you go to to pick up your quest, it makes a sound when you do but thats it.

It's such a shame really... but I guess I won't be thinking about SWTOR when I'm playing GW2 in 2012.

  JoeyMMO

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1334

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

11/27/11 8:15:07 AM#138
Originally posted by Anoebis.be
*snip*

I think I can call myself a big Star Wars fan, but they are not getting my hard earned money! I'm not impressed at all with this game. It's almost 2012 and even Lineage looks better than this crap.

They talk so much about their fully voiced game, and yet the game is lifeless. The NPC's could just aswel been statues, because basically thats what they are, just a beacon you go to to pick up your quest, it makes a sound when you do but thats it.

It's such a shame really... but I guess I won't be thinking about SWTOR when I'm playing GW2 in 2012.

 I'm a Star Wars fan too, maybe too much of a fan. But TOR doesn't feel like it's enough like Star Wars to me. They made to many compromises to mate a BW game with just your standard MMO. It looks like SW, but it just isn't. As far as GW2 is concerned: no release date yet. We may pray for early 2012 all we want, but we don't even know that it will be released next year.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

11/27/11 11:34:36 AM#139
Originally posted by polocola1

Racials are just a complete joke like for the Twi'leks their racial is a cultural dance which is just them doing a special dance emote lol.

Hey, that'll come in handy when you're having a "Stormwind-esque Stand-around-waiting-for-a-group" dance party.

  Faelsun

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/23/07
Posts: 485

11/27/11 4:28:17 PM#140
Originally posted by JoeyMMO
Originally posted by Anoebis.be
*snip*

I think I can call myself a big Star Wars fan, but they are not getting my hard earned money! I'm not impressed at all with this game. It's almost 2012 and even Lineage looks better than this crap.

They talk so much about their fully voiced game, and yet the game is lifeless. The NPC's could just aswel been statues, because basically thats what they are, just a beacon you go to to pick up your quest, it makes a sound when you do but thats it.

It's such a shame really... but I guess I won't be thinking about SWTOR when I'm playing GW2 in 2012.

 I'm a Star Wars fan too, maybe too much of a fan. But TOR doesn't feel like it's enough like Star Wars to me. They made to many compromises to mate a BW game with just your standard MMO. It looks like SW, but it just isn't. As far as GW2 is concerned: no release date yet. We may pray for early 2012 all we want, but we don't even know that it will be released next year.

You cannot make a Universe, specifically the Star Wars universe a Themepark when by it's nature the Star Wars theme is always about personal freedom and choice. Even Sith Lords could be working FOR the Republic as part of a master plan or simply factionless crime lords who want personal power. Bounty hunters certainly did not work only for the Empire, more likely they worked with crime syndicates and crooks. Sandbox elements aren't just WANTED by the Star Wars player community its actually part of Star Wars Fiction, beginning with Lightsaber creation, PhAt loot drops have done away with that in favor of killing Jawa mobs for your lightsaber instead. Space Travel and space combat are one of the most important things to Star Wars and TOR turned it into a mini game on rails. On EVERY level EA and Bioware took the wrong turn on this game, every single one, because they have it in their mind if they made the Raiders happy they could milk it for every penny. But that didn't work for Everquest2 did it. But this game isn't quite a WOW clone, Its an EQ2 Clone, I say this because the PVP looks terrible, TERRIBLE slow and numb. Remember making Galaxies work more like WOW is what ruined the game in the first place.

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